The Observation Deck

Shawn Juris wrote:Wow, that post is all over the place. I think that much of it has already been addressed by others here. It seems unlikely that me saying the same thing is going to convince you to change your mind.
I'm satisfied with the progress and am proud to live and work around this area. It'll be exciting to see the 2010 versions of their events.

Shawn

I notice you use the first line of the LO mission statement as your signature, did you forget...

Our goal is to help Lakewood residents and neighbors learn as much as possible about the city. In its efforts to know Lakewood par excellence, the Lakewood Observer will illuminate the many facets of culture, arts, business, education, religion, and lifestyle this diverse city has to offer.

The Lakewood Observer will capture Lakewood life in the present, imagine its promising future, and celebrate its rich urban history.

The Lakewood Observer shall provide a sounding board for charities, institutions, schools, children, families, events, and City Hall. We intend to open a space for long running dialogue with everyone who works, lives, or plays in the great city of Lakewood.

In this twenty-first century urban experiment, the Lakewood Observer will strive to construct for the city an open and unbiased ensemble of white papers for mapping community solutions, advancing responsible economic development and sustainability strategies, and tracking results.

Finally, the Lakewood Observer will invite the entire community to celebrate the vibrant mosaic of culture, nature, history, and personality we call Lakewood.

I do believe that even with the unwillingness of many civic groups and some
elected officials in this city, the people, the volunteers and all members of the Lakewood
Observer has succeeded beyond belief.

To my knowledge, and I could be wrong, this is one of two programs and maybe 5 things
that other cities are actually turning to Lakewood to copy and bring to their community.
Instead of merely copying or blatantly stealing ideas to make ourselves look important
we have charted a course that seven years ago did not exist. After starting this
we learned of one other similar project in Kansas that started three months before the LO,
sadly they folded last year. Which makes the LO the oldest and most successful Civic
Journalism project in the USA, and/or maybe the world. But this is not my success it is
Lakewood's success story, and it is something we should all be proud of.

But for some reason many community leaders run like scared rabbits from open discussion
and yes even discourse. Some so called civic leaders would rather not be
accountable for how they spend our money, or what plans they have for OUR city. Some,
the worst of the worse call people in the night and ask them not to use their first
amendment rights to openly discuss the city, their thoughts and their ideas. This has
actually taken on a sick form of peer pressure that most grew up and got away from in
high school. Simply put they are not willing to stand in the light so they have decided to
tell others not to so their absence is not as glaring, afraid to actually have an open conversation with neighbors about their community.

Shawn, you and I have very little we agree on it seems. You are always there to try to
strike a voice for the other side, and knock me off my high horse. That my friend is a
beautiful thing. Because I am pretty sure between your thoughts and mine, is a place that
works for all Lakewoodites, and without the discussion, that place may never be found.

So why is it so bad to ask how much money we as tax payers give the economic development
group that caters to businesses called Lakewood Alive. Why is it so evil to question that
maybe the Chamber of Commerce, Lakewood Christian Services, or even Pillars might be
much more effective with our tax dollars?

How is that somehow bad to even talk about?

I too look forward to 2010, LEAF, the car show, the arts festival, the 4th of july parade,
but I will also skip some events as they were lifted off the broken dreams of those that
worked so hard to create them, just to have them lifted because they was a chance to
make a couple pennies for the few.

As always thanks for weighing in and given the other side. I appreciate you taking the time
to post your views even when they are against me and or my beliefs. For that is exactly
why the Deck was created. To give EVERYONE a single seat at the table of public discussion.
A chance to be read/heard by real people that really care and have questions and/or ideas
that might make Lakewood better for all.

peace

And may I add vote!

Yes the building in front of the hospital is owned by them and they are responsible for pushing the tenants out because they originally intended to tare it down to build a new building for offices. However, believe it or not, members of Lakewood Alive fought the hospital’s decision and convinced them to change their minds, saving one of Lakewood’s older storefront buildings that are characteristic of the city and makes our downtown what it is. They convinced the hospital to perhaps use the current building for the offices that they want instead. That is the last I have heard and they have not moved on it since.

Christopher Bindel wrote:Yes the building in front of the hospital is owned by them and they are responsible for pushing the tenants out because they originally intended to tare it down to build a new building for offices. However, believe it or not, members of Lakewood Alive fought the hospital’s decision and convinced them to change their minds, saving one of Lakewood’s older storefront buildings that are characteristic of the city and makes our downtown what it is. They convinced the hospital to perhaps use the current building for the offices that they want instead. That is the last I have heard and they have not moved on it since.

A few of us having been talking about successful storefront to office conversions. We'd love to see more of this in Lakewood.

Check this one out;

http://www.rookscounty.net/coming_home.htm

Interesting Chris. Maybe all the hype is just that and we really shouldn't believe all of the fear mongering that is spewed around the 'internets'.
Just came from another engaging, very well attending meeting with a fantastic collection of passionate, local business owners at the LA offices. Maybe it was the blue sky, winter morning or the fact that it was so conveniently located just halfway between my house and my office, but I really enjoyed being able to meet people face to face and hear about what's going on. I keep looking for the horns but haven't found them yet.

Shawn Juris wrote:Maybe all the hype is just that and we really shouldn't believe all of the fear mongering that is spewed around the 'internets'.
Just came from another engaging, very well attending meeting with a fantastic collection of passionate, local business owners at the LA offices. Maybe it was the blue sky, winter morning or the fact that it was so conveniently located just halfway between my house and my office, but I really enjoyed being able to meet people face to face and hear about what's going on. I keep looking for the horns but haven't found them yet.

Shawn

You break me up, marginalize the conversation, claim all are saints because you can't
see the horns.

How on earth is fear mongering asking a non-profit group that gets their money from tax
payers as many different ways as I have ever seen, fear mongering?

I realize that you are desperate for your mall, so you can buy pants. But maybe, just
maybe some of us, would like to know where are tax dollars are going, and what they
are being used for.

But as always, easier to ignore, marginalize, and belittle, then be accountable or
let their effectiveness be judged, or their use of public funds, and plans for OUR city.

So OK maybe Pillars couldn't do better than LakewoodAlive, but what about the new
large offices of Lakewood Christian Services, or The Chamber of Commerce?

Fear mongering, horns, hyperbole


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Jim,
Read your mission statement again. If you're not going to lead by example then sell this project.

Jim, perhaps other than that you think LakewoodAlive is nefarious and has a monopoly on policymaking in the city (allegations with which I would respectfully but very loudly disagree), I'm having trouble finding the kernel in your posts here.

Is there a specific piece of data regarding the city's involvement with LakewoodAlive you want? For instance, what amount of our federal CDBG money was appropriated for that organization this year?

Appropriations are always the product of public deliberations and public voting. As taxpayers, we're all entitled to the financials from city hall. If you need something, I can find it and pass it on. I'm not sure why you have the impression, if you do, that it's being secreted but I'd rather just focus on getting you the data you want.

Kevin Butler wrote:Jim, perhaps other than that you think LakewoodAlive is nefarious and has a monopoly on policymaking in the city (allegations with which I would respectfully but very loudly disagree), I'm having trouble finding the kernel in your posts here.

Is there a specific piece of data regarding the city's involvement with LakewoodAlive you want? For instance, what amount of our federal CDBG money was appropriated for that organization this year?

Appropriations are always the product of public deliberations and public voting. As taxpayers, we're all entitled to the financials from city hall. If you need something, I can find it and pass it on. I'm not sure why you have the impression, if you do, that it's being secreted but I'd rather just focus on getting you the data you want.

Kevin

As always thank you for stepping into the mosh pit of word jazz we call the Deck. Your
participation, and time is appreciated.

I am sure I have never used the word "nefarious" (extremely wicked or villainous;
iniquitous: a nefarious plot), or mentioned "a monopoly* on policymaking in the city"
though I have often questioned what their plan is, and how it is even decided. I have
poured over many records of public meetings, and have never really seen how their
plan has been made available to City Council or the residents. I have also questioned
some of LakewoodAlive's accountability for public (not all city or CDBG) funds raised.
And admit I am bothered because it seems easier for LA's upper management and
founder to attack fellow Lakewodites, and avoid straight forward answers when asked.

But as you have weighed in here,you are my councilman, and president of council let
me ask not how they get their CDBG money, or even how much. Those hard cold numbers
I have, and the city does an excellent job of reporting them. But, how does the city
evaluate success, and value to our programs? How does the city track that money once
it is given? Is there a point when all the numbers are gathered? You know, the cost to
the city not through CDGB monies, but also through Lakewood's fabulous police, and
city services. Like when LA submitted a bill for $71,000 er $31,000 for the volunteer
DowntowN sign committee. Is that added in? At what point does the city evaluate, and
let's say grade their performance? Overtime pay for 10 or more police for let's say
Spooky Pooch, a fundraiser, or continued support of "Meals on Wheels" for seniors?

Again, thank you as always for you time, your service to the city, and your patience.


Shawn

Why is it always easier to attack the person asking the simple question, then answer the
damn question? Why does it seem better to ask me to "sell the project" then answer the
question. For two years, a few people here have asked a very simple question, about what
would seem to be a very small number to a very nice event that is a fundraiser. For two
years anyone who dared to ask that or for any accountability from this group, getting
public dollars, gets attacked, belittled, told to move, told to sell, and becomes part of a
back alley phone campaign of attacks that truly makes everyone wonder, what the deal is?

To me, still a supporter of the LakewoodAlive program, having never turned them
down when asked for something, wonder why is it so hard to get simple accountability?

As always thank you both for weighing in, and discussing this in an open forum. I am
sure we all believe that through open discussion, things can be understood by many
easier, and hopefully allowing all to get what they need from this very public discussion.

*
monopoly
mo·nop·o·ly
–noun,plural-lies.
1. exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices. Compare duopoly, oligopoly.
2. an exclusive privilege to carry on a business, traffic, or service, granted by a government.
3. the exclusive possession or control of something.
4. something that is the subject of such control, as a commodity or service.
5. a company or group that has such control.
6. the market condition that exists when there is only one seller.
7. (initial capital letter) a board game in which a player attempts to gain a monopoly of real estate by advancing around the board and purchasing property, acquiring capital by collecting rent from other players whose pieces land on that property.

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Kevin - Shawn -

I would like to put forward my part in this. Last year (in the winter) I asked about detailed accounts of spending in reference to their donations and grants. I was referred to their annual report. I had seen their annual report. It was not a detailed accounting of their incoming monies and outgoing expenses, it was a pie chart. Since they are a 501c3 their records need to be available for public scrutiny. I was given 5 different sources for their material, none of which proved useful. I was then told that their tax forms were available in their office and what drawer they were in. It was the middle of winter. I'm supposed to take my cane and walk over snow mounds to go to their offices, which I later learned were mostly empty because everyone works from home. They could have emailed me the info. Instead I was blasted and told I was shrill and treated like scum.

Who do they think they are? What do they have to hide? Why aren't they forthcoming to the taxpayers who simply ask for information? Why would that simple, straight forward request be treated with such ferocious animosity?

Shawn, just because the sun shines doesn't mean there aren't shadows. Look at the sidewalk you walk on.

Kevin, you know I wouldn't ask for info I'm not entitled to. I know my stuff.

sharon kinsella wrote: I was then told that their tax forms were available in their office and what drawer they were in.

Sharon, this is a good resource for filed tax returns:
http://www2.guidestar.org/Home.aspx

Tax returns are available for LakewoodAlive for 2008, and Lakewood Community Progress, Inc for 2007 and 2006.

The Guidestar website is one that you have to register/get passwords etc, but it is a useful resource.

Jim
Who did I attack? I'm not sure if you kidding or something but I posted a positive experience and was accused of being desperate for a mall (seriously are you agrophobic, what is your obsession with malls)? You then took it on yourself to make a disparaging remark about Pillars. Was that your form of articulating and amplifying good will?

As I answered already, I don't know the answer you are looking for. Kevin made a fine point about accountability and CDBG and Council which I would think would suffice. Given that you ignore answers unless they suit your alternate reality, you may continue to struggle to justify your conspiracy.

I guess it would be disappointing but not everyone in Lakewood agrees that these evils that you are trying to scare us of are real (sorry Sharon please include yourself as well). But, is it really within the mission for the publisher to jump on anyone that disagrees with you personally?
Maybe there should just be a new mission for the Deck - agree with Jim or be accused of loving malls and having cooties.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I am sure I have never used the word "nefarious" (extremely wicked or villainous; iniquitous: a nefarious plot), or mentioned "a monopoly* on policymaking in the city" though I have often questioned what their plan is, and how it is even decided.

I was deducing, not quoting.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I have poured over many records of public meetings, and have never really seen how their plan has been made available to City Council or the residents.

Here's their plan, straight from the city's website, as it relates to federal CDBG dollars requested for outreach services for housing code compliance. Here's their plan as it relates to federal CDBG dollars requested for economic development through the Mainstreet program. All applications for CDBG money can be viewed here.

The Citizens Advisory Committee, on the recommendation of the mayor, voted to fund LakewoodAlive's programs for 2010, but in an amount ($75,250) 35 percent less than what that organization requested ($116,978). City Council supported these decisions. It's worth noting based on all the unholy-alliance talk.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:But, how does the city evaluate success, and value to our programs? How does the city track that money once it is given? Is there a point when all the numbers are gathered? You know, the cost to the city not through CDGB monies, but also through Lakewood's fabulous police, and city services. Like when LA submitted a bill for $71,000 er $31,000 for the volunteer DowntowN sign committee. Is that added in? At what point does the city evaluate, and
let's say grade their performance? Overtime pay for 10 or more police for let's say Spooky Pooch, a fundraiser, or continued support of "Meals on Wheels" for seniors?

If LakewoodAlive were to reapply for funds from the 2011 federal CDBG program, which is expected, we'd have an opportunity to gauge the success of these programs. In the meantime, it's my understanding our planning department must provide information to U.S. HUD showing the funds appropriated to outside organizations (LakewoodAlive, Lakewood Christian Service Center, Cleveland Mediation Center, Beck Center, Lakewood Foundation, etc.) are being used for the purposes permitted by HUD.

Shawn Juris wrote:Jim
Who did I attack? I'm not sure if you kidding or something but I posted a positive experience and was accused of being desperate for a mall (seriously are you agrophobic, what is your obsession with malls)? You then took it on yourself to make a disparaging remark about Pillars. Was that your form of articulating and amplifying good will?

As I answered already, I don't know the answer you are looking for. Kevin made a fine point about accountability and CDBG and Council which I would think would suffice. Given that you ignore answers unless they suit your alternate reality, you may continue to struggle to justify your conspiracy.

I guess it would be disappointing but not everyone in Lakewood agrees that these evils that you are trying to scare us of are real (sorry Sharon please include yourself as well). But, is it really within the mission for the publisher to jump on anyone that disagrees with you personally?
Maybe there should just be a new mission for the Deck - agree with Jim or be accused of loving malls and having cooties.

Shawn

You are killing me. but then I am sure it serious stuff in your mind.

1) Malls, do not see any benefit in a built out city like Lakewood when we have 5 malls
within 20 minutes of us, and we recieve a sales tax from all of them.

2) pants, a punchline between the two of us, and the people that follow our discussions.

3) Pillars, no dispagging remarks in anyway shape or form, in fact just the opposite.
I mentioned that maybe the city could do better using Pillars, the Chamber of Commerce
and/or Lakewood Christian Services for help lighten the load on LakewoodAlive. I know
that LCS, and The Chamber would be more than willing to help use some of that money.
You came back and made it clear that you thought LakewoodAlive was doing a super job.
So why was I wrong to think that you were saying Pillars was not interested? Read your
comments.

4) I pray to god everyone in Lakewood does not agree with me. The Deck was built for
civic discourse, discussion, ownership of ideas and beliefs. Not the psychotic control of
every topic and issue. I hope people weigh in and disagree or agree with things posted
here. As I have always said I have no need to live in Jimmyville, that is why I wonder
aloud why I would also want to like in LakewoodAlive Town, or Pillar City. It was always
our hope that somewhere in the middle of the discussion, some sense FOR ALL could be made.

Please note in the now 6-8 times I have been asked to leave or people have asked me to
be fired, I have stayed here, in the heat and the light of day and answered all the
questions even when they are confrontational, and not based on any real facts or
knowledge. I believe that we all are equal at this virtual table, I am just the guy stuck
with the bill. I do not see you as a foolish crank, I see you as a person with mostly polar
opposite views to mine. I have no problem with that. I think people can learn from both
of us.

The things that I am saying are not for some perverse thrill. They are fair and serious
questions that we all deserve answers to.

As always thanks for the time, and for sharing your thoughts on the city and the Observer.

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Kevin

As always thank you for your answers.

You need not answer these if you do not wish to.

I have no need to drag you into an endless discussion.

So to be clear.

It was $75,000+ in CDBG money, Does that include the $71,000 er $31,000 for the
DowntowN sign test? Do we even know how much else of non-CDBG money and support
they get from the city?

That the city does not evaluate the impact or success of programs funded through HUD.

Am I legally within my rights, as a tax payer, a resident and a supporter of LakewoodAlive
to ask for correct accounting, and how funds are used by them?



Peace


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