The Observation Deck

Roy Pitchford wrote: I do not oppose reform. I oppose this plan for reform.

I would agree with that.

All we are seeing is another transfer of wealth to those that have bought power.

One reason, to go to plans that work in other countries, like the UK and France
and bite the bullet and get rid of that influence forever.

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Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Roy Pitchford wrote: I do not oppose reform. I oppose this plan for reform.

I would agree with that.

All we are seeing is another transfer of wealth to those that have bought power.

One reason, to go to plans that work in other countries, like the UK and France
and bite the bullet and get rid of that influence forever.

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So, you're willing to hand over control (i.e. cede your freedom) to the government?

Roy Pitchford wrote:So, you're willing to hand over control (i.e. cede your freedom) to the government?

In this case, I believe so.

Free enterprise is not working. Like it our not we are paying the brunt while Canada,
Mexico, and Europe walks on lower medicine prices.

You and I have watched and watched and watched various plans emerge and fail. I have not
seen very many of any that does not reward medical and hospitals 10-1 over humans. I see
no plan that is perfect, but I see some pretty damn good programs that seem to fail on the
side of humans not corporations.

You say you want a change, I want a change, The industry seem incapable of being fair,
or even reasonable, and it would seem to be undermining the "health" of the entire nation
on every level.

I really believe single payer is the only way to make it fair.

How to pay? Well we could stop our imperialists ways, and we could raise tariffs, and we
could tighten some of the offshore BS.

I believe that we both feel the same, I tend to want the abuse by humans not business
that does not even remotely need the $$$.

Single payer, could really blow out some amazing opportunities for small business, big
business, and the idle rich.

Yep we bite the bullet on this one.


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First, let me say I'm glad we can both agree on something (that this is the wrong plan for reform). Its a place to start, but where we disagree still places us on opposite sides of the table.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Roy Pitchford wrote:So, you're willing to hand over control (i.e. cede your freedom) to the government?

In this case, I believe so.

To be honest, that flabbergasts me. Our freedoms are the most important things we have and you're willing to throw it away so you can have a "price cut" on your insurance??
Keep in mind it most likely won't actually be a price cut because they'll have to get the money some other way and in the end we'll end up paying for it and the usual government waste that comes along with it.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Free enterprise is not working. Like it our not we are paying the brunt while Canada, Mexico, and Europe walks on lower medicine prices.

You call this free enterprise?? When insurance can't go across state borders and doctors have to do excessive testing for fear of lawsuits over a misdiagnosis?
That's like saying there's free enterprise in the automotive industry while there's still government regulation for fuel economy, emissions and safety.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:You and I have watched and watched and watched various plans emerge and fail. I have not seen very many of any that does not reward medical and hospitals 10-1 over humans. I see no plan that is perfect, but I see some pretty damn good programs that seem to fail on the side of humans not corporations.

You say you want a change, I want a change, The industry seem incapable of being fair, or even reasonable, and it would seem to be undermining the "health" of the entire nation on every level.

I really believe single payer is the only way to make it fair.

To be honest, I actually haven't been 'watching' this stuff for all that long. My interest in politics in general has really only been strong over the last 4, maybe 5 years. The only plans I've seen fail are those proposed by democrats. No republican proposal has made it far enough TO fail, the democrats wouldn't let any of them see the light of day.

Also worth noting...Life isn't fair, or as it was said in The Princess Bride, Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:How to pay? Well we could stop our imperialists ways, and we could raise tariffs, and we could tighten some of the offshore BS.

I believe that we both feel the same, I tend to want the abuse by humans not business that does not even remotely need the $$$.

Single payer, could really blow out some amazing opportunities for small business, big business, and the idle rich.

Yep we bite the bullet on this one.


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Current Medicare liabilities are over $74 trillion (from Federal Reserve via http://www.usdebtclock.org). You can't possibly pay for all that PLUS a single payer option. Our childrens' (and probably our grandkids') future have already been mortgaged thanks to previous excesses by the government. Are we also shooting to kill the American dream for the next few generations after that? I don't want that on my hands.

Oh, and its still unconstitutional.

Roy Pitchford wrote:Also worth noting...Life isn't fair, or as it was said in The Princess Bride, Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

Oh well that makes perfect sense. Especially when you quote the source.

No sense even trying then.

We seem to be at an impasse then.

Australia!




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Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Roy Pitchford wrote:Also worth noting...Life isn't fair, or as it was said in The Princess Bride, Life is pain. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

Oh well that makes perfect sense. Especially when you quote the source.

No sense even trying then.

We seem to be at an impasse then.

Australia!

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I take it as a compliment to be compared to either of those fine men.