The Observation Deck

Hi,
Good point, Ms. Kinsella. We need to think outside the box to solve this problem too. Here's my idea for that:
1). Fire RTA
2). Create LPT Lakewood Public Transit
3). Convert all our now unused Cushmans into 2-4 person taxis (maybe we get 100 more). Lakewood residents ride free. People from outside Lakewood that have a receipt for over $40 ride free. All others pay $2 per person.

Donald Farris wrote:I thought Lakewood was going to have 1 stop. Is that correct? If we just have 1 stop then people are going to need to either walk a long way to the station or they will jump in their car and drive to the station. Once they are in the car they can probably get to I 90 quicker than anywhere else in Lakewood. Or, we can have several small commuter buses drive the corridors picking up riders and dropping them off at the station.

The State of Ohio is going to spend hundreds of millions of dollars to widen the freeway's leading into and out of Cuyahoga County. I-90, I-77 and I-71:

http://www.cleveland.com/indepth/innerb ... ner09.html

Those wider highways will open up empty land for development and encourage a further diffusion of population and the jobs that go with them. In that political and economic environment light rail makes no sense except to provide a once or twice a year joy rode for those living in the exurbs.

It might make sense if 200,000 people worked downtown. That's unlikely to happen even if organizations like the Port Authority were not actively working to move jobs out of Cleveland.

Light rail through Lakewood offers nothing to the people of Lakewood. A light rail system with one stop in Lakewood offers even less than nothing. A light rail system built at the expense of Shoreway and Lakefront development is even worse than less than nothing.

Light rail through Lakewood offers nothing to the people of Lakewood. A light rail system with one stop in Lakewood offers even less than nothing. A light rail system built at the expense of Shoreway and Lakefront development is even worse than less than nothing.

Just because you keep saying it, does not make it true.


How about a nice bicycle instead?

Bicycles Outselling Cars In 2009
Posted on May 28th, 2009 admin No comments
The bad news keeps coming for the US Autos industry. In the first quarter of 2009, bicycles outsold cars and trucks.

Despite being down more than 30% on last year, bikes are outselling cars, which are experiencing a larger decline. Many see the again rising cost of gasoline, as well as the not so good press coverage of the failing car industry, are making people think twice about buying a motor. The large savings from riding a bike over short distances rather than driving can help consumer confidence and support economic recovery.

Even longer trips are becoming more accessible for cyclists. Visionary activists are creating opportunities for cyclists to safely travel longer distances. Not only are there cost savings from such local and intercity rides, but there are environmental benefits too, especially in the reduction of carbon dioxide emissions. While an average solo car trip or airplane ride emits more than 1 pound of CO2 per mile, bicycling or walking emits close to zero. If we need to travel hundreds of miles, there are great low-carbon strategies for travel that include mass transit and carpooling, keeping our average emissions less than 1/2 a pound of CO2 per mile.

like a lot of threads, this is essentially a non-argument

Most projects - done well - will be of benefit
Most projects - done poorly - will be a detriment

Light Rail, done right, would be of great benefit to Lakewood and the surrounding communities.
Light Rail, done wrong, would be a complete waste of time and money.

Unfortunately, I'm in agreement with just about everyone here. I think a commuter line would be great, but I have absolutely no confidence in the existing RTA leadership to do it right.

Another idea I pitched to RTA: instead of having taxpayers pick up the tab for all the new rapid station stops (as we just did). Land development should have been sublet out to companies like McDonalds, BK, or even Starbucks. They build and maintain a restaurant that includes the needed entrance/exit onto the platform. We get the station, they pick up the tab. I think there would be quite a bidding war to have exclusive access to a couple hundred commuters every morning and afternoon.

But, as with most of my e-mails, I heard nothing back, and saw nothing done along those lines.

Over the past year, ridership has been at record levels, yet RTA proclaimed record losses. That speaks of gross mismanagement, nothing more, nothing less.

I do believe I completely agree with you on this, Brett.

I'm feeling Rice.

Hi,
I believe, in one "Petticoat Junction" show, Billie Jo wanted to go shopping in Pixley. So, she flagged down the Hooterville Cannonball and engineer Charley Pratt stopped the train. (It didn't go 100mph but we have better brakes, nowdays). Billie Jo was an environmentally friendly gal so she wanted to take her bike with her into town. No problem, Charley just stuck up with him in the engine.

Is that how we're going to do it? People can take their bikes with them and after they flag down the train (I hope we can just call all the engineers Charley), Charley will put it up by him in the engine where he can keep an eye on it.

Maybe, for entertainment on the train riders could watch old "Petticoat Junction" shows. I'd prefer wifi internet service, but it could detract from the experience.

PS I'm now scanning episodes of "Green Acres" for solutions to our trash collection problems. I don't remember a robotic tractor.

The surest way to ensure effective passenger rail and other forms of public transportation would be to eliminate the ENORMOUS subsidies conferred upon folks who drive cars.

Presently, taxpayers pay the cost of the military and other foreign policy initiatives needed to keep the shipping lanes open for oil importation.

Taxpayers also pay the costs of the safety forces needed to maintain order on the roadways.

Employers and employees pay the medical costs associated with crashes.

And I highly doubt that the puny gas taxes we pay cover the cost of building or maintaining our roadways and bridges. Certainly not locally.

Never mind the soft costs, such as pollution.

And the list goes on....

I have seen estimates of the automobile subsidy that range from $2000 to $5000 per automobile per year. If folks who drive cars would pay these costs, we would not be debating the merits of passenger rail and other forms of public transportation. We would already have quality passenger rail and other public transportation options. We would not have to wait for the oil fields to run dry....

PS I'm now scanning episodes of "Green Acres" for solutions to our trash collection problems.

wasn't his name Arnold?

I'm jumping into this thread late, and have too much catching up to do to quote anyone specific, so here's a bunch of roughly connected thoughts:

The argument that people would get hit by trains is just kind of weird.

I was just in Chicago this past weekend (and, BTW, I took the Megabus to and fro). Their public transportation is efficient and convenient and everyone uses it. It should be a model for other cities. However, I think we're missing the big picture... I don't know if expanded commuter rail would be used here, but it isn't because of a flaw in commuter rail systems, it's because of Cleveland itself. Relatively speaking, nobody lives in downtown Cleveland, and there's nothing to do there. People pour into downtown Chicago to shop. They leave downtown Cleveland to shop.

The existing rail system has nothing to offer me, unless I live next to a station and work in Tower City. I live more or less in the center of Lakewood, the most densely populated city between New York and Chicago, and a large first-tier suburb of Cleveland, and there isn't a rail stop within roughly 2 miles of me. I work just east of downtown. Even in rush hour, it takes me 20 minutes to drive from home to office. It would take me over an hour via public transportation, and after 2 buses and a train, I'd still have to walk about a half mile.

Which comes back to the chicken and egg debate. Would light rail spur development downtown? I don't know. Likely, they'd have to grow together... any expansion of passenger rail would want to be paired with some destination development.

The notion that expanding the rail systems only benefits the exurbs also seems kind of backwards. Whether we like it or not, Lakewood's fate is tied to Cleveland's. If it's easier for more people to get downtown and spend money, that only benefits Lakewood. Presuming Lakewood has a well-located stop. People and money will flow both ways.

If the region is committed, people will take the trains. Slap tolls on 90, 71, and 77 as they approach the city center, and people would ride. And I'm sure we could find something to do with that money. (Fix roads, clean up pollution, subsidize development so there's somewhere for people to go, etc.) Alternatively, we could just let the bridges fall down.

Hi,
Mr. Hutchison, I agree that Chicago is great. Cleveland is not Chicago. Just look at what Bush did for Texas. 5 of the top 10 growth cities in our country are in Texas. Now Obama will help Chicago grow in a similar fashion. But that doesn’t help Cleveland. I do not see signature bridges, meddi marts or trains doing it either. What will help Cleveland is jobs. Lots of them. And if we acted fast (meaning we’re probably already too late) we could use this paradigm shift to renewable green energy to create thousands of good manufacturing jobs. If I look back on Cleveland’s history, I see Cleveland was very instrumental in designing and building cars in the beginning of the 20th century. We have a chance to look at the train and redesign cars to fit on new needs. We can follow the design of a train to do it. Trains are very efficient because they are diesel generators that create electricity that runs the train. That is how trains can help us be more fuel efficient. We follow that example. We take a small 2-3 cylinder diesel motor and have it generate enough electricity to power our car’s movements. Once you add a battery you create many environmental issues. The train doesn’t need batteries and neither does a car except for starting it like currently used in cars. There is an opportunity for new car/truck/semi tractor trailer companies to rise up and Cleveland could do that.

Now, back to “Petticoat Junction”, you say you won’t go from the center of Lakewood to the Rapid at W117th because it’s too much bother. Doesn’t that sort of say a train can’t be a solution for Lakewood unless it behaved like the one on “Petticoat Junction” that just stopped whenever someone waves it down? If it did do that, then no one west of Lakewood would want to ride it. If it’s a 100mph train that is running on the tracks between Clifton and Detroit, the exburb riders will be happy but Lakewood will suffer and risk live and limb each time it splits Lakewood in 2 pieces.


Our fate is not tied to Cleveland. If you operate on that theory then we are way worse. We do not have all of Cleveland’s problems, except if you think we must solve Cleveland’s problems before we even begin thinking about Lakewood’s. Savannah’s peninsula would have been a huge way for Lakewood to rise above Cleveland and the inner-ring suburbs. And define itself as a new destination. But that could only happen if Lakewood could step out from behind the line where Cleveland stands first. So, I say if we are, like a swimmer, we can reach out and grab the life vest of the other western suburbs or we reach for the boat anchor to help us swim. See in this example, Cleveland is the boat anchor that will pull us under. If people spend money in the western suburbs, it benefits Lakewood just as much as money spent in Cleveland (until you leave the county). There is no difference between the two as far as Lakewood is concerned. The only thing that will get people spending money in Lakewood is if it’s a destination. If it’s a pass through, that’s all it will be.

Many people drive their cars. Very few ride the trains. So, I guess one option is to do as you suggest and punish people enough that they change the way they live. Force that train on them. Or. perhaps, another way would be to make each and every car/truck/Semi so efficient that they don’t have to change. I think the second option is more likely to happen. And it could even be a manufacturing opportunity for Cleveland to create all those jobs NE Ohio needs so badly.

There are several values that occur in making the decision to take the bus/train or to drive.

Ecology - how much you care about the environment

Price - how much are you willing to spend to care about the environment

Convenience - how easy is it to use

Safety - how safe is it - walking to it, riding it at the time of the day or night that you are riding.

There may be more - but these were the ones that I know our daughter struggled with when she finally made the decision to drive.

She is a very serious environmentalist. So of course she wanted to take public transportation.

However when she considered the cost of taking public transportation versus the cost of driving, parking and wear and tear on a car - we were shocked that public transportation was much more costly.

Convienence - if you job calls for you to meet clients during the days or run other errands, unless you live in a city like NYC or maybe Chicago where public transportation runs easily every way - it is tough. Believe it or not - many people have those jobs.

Safety - often as you pointed out there is quite a walk at the end of the public transportation stop. If you are used to working very late - taking that long walk in the winter in the dark can be scary (especially for parents).

Trains are fixed in their location and costly to relocate. If we want them to be fast, then you still need to drive to the train stop because if they stop at every junction they are slow. Buses on the other hand can change routes at any time.

I do like the idea of making cars more fuel efficient.

I like the idea of having a bike trail (there may be some property rights issues there as I understand it). (I'm following a Family on bikes as they travel from Alaska to the bottom of Argentina - Tim Liston - this is for you and your family their web site is http://www.familyonbikes.org/)

I like the idea of telecomuting (more and more firms are doing it) it not only is good for the environmnet it is good for families too. I also like the idea of firms having flex time so that we don't create traffic jams which wastes fuel and pollutes our environment. I like the idea of car pooling and we should consider promoting it more as well.

However painting our street white and and the roof tops white, may cost less than putting in a new train and we wouldn't have to worry if it would be used or not. It will be.

Additionally, Dennis Kucinich was the one that was out with the protesters to stop the trains in Lakewood after a school child was killed on the tracks walking home from school. This was several years ago - but the PTA etc. protested loudly about the train dangers.

Hi,
Big train accident in DC. See: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/22/two-trains-collide-on-met_n_219230.html. Trains are usually safe but accidents do happen.

In Lakewood, not just the passengers on the train are at risk but so are the people living in houses next to the trains.

According to NHTSA, there were 37,248 fatal car accidents in 2007, the most recent year for which statistics are reported here:

http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx

Thirty seven thousand, two hundred forty-eight fatal automobile accidents, resulting in 41,059 fatalities, some of which were not even in the cars that were directly involved in the fatal automobile accidents. Some of them were pedestrians. A lot of us think of Lakewood as a "walking community." Lots of people walk in very close proximity to the cars.

Thirty seven thousand, two hundred forty-eight fatal automobile accidents resulting in 41,059 deaths is not an unusual number, either. In fact, it's pretty much the norm, going back to 1994, the earliest year reported.

I just spent a few minutes on google trying to find out when it was that the last passenger train, or even freight train for that matter, jumped the tracks and killed someone in their home.

I was not successful. I could find no such instance, not one. Though I am sure it has happened, once or twice in the last decade. Maybe Don you can find it. But certainly not 37,000+ lives lost per year.

I'm not going to be taking this train unless it, like my car, sits patiently out front waiting to take me where I want to go.

Funny, coming from a guy who purports to be so adamantly opposed to war, presumably including a war that obviously has more to do with oil than it does with Iraq's fledgling democracy....

Don you can't have it both ways. Choose war and your car, as you seem to, or choose more efficient (and less convenient) ways to transport folks. And peace....

Hi,
Good points, Mr. Liston.

1). I'm all for public transportation that works. I love taking the train. We did it a lot in Europe and Russia and it worked well there. That doesn't mean it will work here. But lets say everyone wants a train in NE Ohio. OK, then put it on I90 and I'm all for it. Running a commuter train that splits Lakewood in 2 from 5am to midnight every 15 minutes or 76 times a day is not in Lakewood's best interests. Trains and street crossing lead to accidents. No place in the state and perhaps the nation are there more train-street crossing that on the rail line between Clifton and Detroit. Those tracks should be torn up and the land returned to its' rightful owners.

2). Mr. Liston, you present a false choice. I'm a vegetarian. Google it and you will see vegetarians save more energy (oil and other) than they could possible consume even driving around a v-12 Jaguar. If you would become a vegetarian you could drive a car and not feel responsible for the War in Iraq. (But being a vegetarian and riding your bike is better still.) I agree the War in Iraq was and is about oil. Sadly, me and my family being vegetarians were not enough to keep it from occurring. Perhaps, if our Congress turned over those responsible for the war to the World Court, future Presidents would not feel they are above the law and can invade anyone for the profit of their friends.

But, Mr. Liston, I didn't start the fire. And I'm doing everything in my power to save the World. But sacrifice alone will not do it. We need to implement technologies that really matter. I can see we have the technology to make cars deliver 100mph, yet very few are made. GM destroyed itself rather than commit to building one. Recent comments from the head of GM leaves me thinking he's not about to change his ways. We could put huge wind farms on Lake Erie and close down all the coal-fired electricity plants. But I don't think it will happen.

I did get rid of the v-12 Jag and now drive a old Mercedes diesel sedan. Very green, driving a already constructed vehicle as opposed to buying a new one. Most times its running regular diesel but it could run any of a number of bio fuels. Maybe. some day they will offer it or I'll get enough time to figure out how to make it run with the cooking oil waste of several of my favorite restaurants.

My profession is Information Technology and it has a very non-green history. I shutter to think how many people have died from salvaging scrape metal from old computers. So, if you want me to feel guilty about something I do or don't do, there's your ticket.