The Observation Deck

[quote="Christopher Bindel"]Jim,

To your earlier post about the possibility of some other issues between council members perhaps getting in the way of this passing I do not think this is the case. I was at the council meeting last night and they said that everyone on the Housing Committee voted against it. I got the distinct feeling from the way that they spoke about it that it was not voted down because of the idea but because of the wording of the ordinance. It also seemed liked they all were expecting to see the subject reappear and hopefully that it would pass next time around.

Now as I said, this isn’t by any means something I “know,â€

Valerie wrote:

I posted all of that here because I know we have some council members lurking here on the Deck and I really had hoped they would read those links and stories.

Guess not.

Read links and stories? Do real research? Ascertain fact from opinion? Minimize personal bias?

After the pit bull "debate," I fear that is beyond the abilities of this council. It's same old, same old. Pretend to debate an issue, but in reality, they already know how they're voting.

This "chicken issue" is really a non-issue. As I posted before, allowing chickens in Lakewood would no more result in a city full of chickens than do homeschool laws result in an exodus of students from the schools. It is a very limited group of people who would be willing to invest the time and expense of keeping chickens.

But as noted earlier, personal bias, irrational fear, and politics once again win.

Steve,

I don't know where you stood on this but I do now that you have a personal feeling on how the people opposed to the mix breed dog ban felt at the time. Facts stated that it didn't make sense but facts (and listening or even taking a frickin' phone call from qualified people) didn't matter.

The part in quotes still stands. I placed numerous, numerous phone calls to my council person (several others as well) and have never received a return phone call and have received only two e-mail replies. Both saying that I would be kept informed. That hasn't happened.

THIS should concern Lakewood residents. I know it's been noted on my behalf.

Ed

Steve Said:

Madigan. Who everyone should note was eager to put this before her committee in order to kill it.

Steve,

Thanks for your post. I was not at the committee meeting and there for don’t know what happened there, but I can believe what you said. Madigan didn’t exactly hide her discomfort at the council meeting when it was announced. Especially when she found out there was a chicken in the room. However she made it seem as though she would truly look at the issue. I guess I was being to idealistic in that thought. So I guess it is believable that she wanted it in her committee for the reason of making sure it doesn’t make it any further. After hearing your comments I wish I would have gone to the meeting so I could better read the situation for my self.

Steve Hoffert wrote:I was at the housing a committee meeting. This committee consists of two members: Madigan and Summers. Although Mr. Summers spoke in a logical and thoughtful manner, the odds of this measure even getting a fair debate were stacked against it by Madigan. Who everyone should note was eager to put this before her committee in order to kill it.

She went so far as to contact at least one of her constituents opposed to the measure to attend the meeting in order to bolster her personal opposition to this ordinance. An honest debate was out of the question. Some of those attending asked for informational and educational outreach in order to gauge Lakewood's true sentiments on the subject but the fearful and rambling diatribe from the chairperson sealed its fate.

Madigan went as far to say "My grandparents didn't come to this country to live next to chickens." Hardly an unbiased or fact based opinion.

Well my grandmother didn't sit on a lifeboat in darkness listening to the screams of people freezing to death in the frigid waters of the upper Atlantic to be told that even discussing the benign act of having a few chickens as pets doesn't fit into one individual's limited vision.

Steve

I believe no one in this city knows more about this issue than you. The fact that you have been my neighbor for years, and years and I never realized you had chickens speaks volumes on how low key the practice is.

I remember fondly sharing beers with you and ex-Law Director Brian Corrigan, with no knowledge of the deadly chance for "Avian Flu" (not) just inches away. What I also remember is the day I was lobbying with Brian on your behalf for Chickens, and he told me many, many reason why they would ruin a neighborhood, then the look on his face when I mentioned we had many meetings in front of Lakewood's chicken master.

It then became obvious that even with him in the pro chicken camp, it would be an uphill battle.

I have no idea why people think of chickens, as non-upscale, as dirty, as a move back to the stone-age. With Mike Summers close connections with Grow Lakewood and LakewoodAlive I can see why he might be leery, as it would no blend with with their "upscale" agenda.

But I have always seen Mary Louise Madigan as the real head of the green movement in Lakewood, and council person for the one ward that would benefit most from this legislation. To hear she opposed is disappointing enough but to hear why!

It still seems to me that it was not made illegal by council, so why would we need council to make it legal?

FWIW


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[quote="Steve Hoffert"][quote="Christopher Bindel"]Jim,

To your earlier post about the possibility of some other issues between council members perhaps getting in the way of this passing I do not think this is the case. I was at the council meeting last night and they said that everyone on the Housing Committee voted against it. I got the distinct feeling from the way that they spoke about it that it was not voted down because of the idea but because of the wording of the ordinance. It also seemed liked they all were expecting to see the subject reappear and hopefully that it would pass next time around.

Now as I said, this isn’t by any means something I “know,â€

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
I have no idea why people think of chickens, as non-upscale, as dirty, as a move back to the stone-age. With Mike Summers close connections with Grow Lakewood and LakewoodAlive I can see why he might be leery, as it would no blend with with their "upscale" agenda.

.

Again, dont get this at all. Talk to Seattle, Portland, and many of the more upscale and expensive urban areas... they all allow and have many people within city limits who have chickens. Good lord, what a seriously dated perception. Let's try to get out of Ohio once in a while and see these good ideas in place in other regions. Instead, we either outright ban it, or research it for 15 years while everyone else beats us to the punch (ie wind turbines).

Grace O'Malley wrote:
After the pit bull "debate," I fear that is beyond the abilities of this council. It's same old, same old. Pretend to debate an issue, but in reality, they already know how they're voting.

I did see this first hand during council meetings regarding the pit bull ban. I could not agree with this more, Grace.

But I have always seen Mary Louise Madigan as the real head of the green movement in Lakewood, and council person for the one ward that would benefit most from this legislation. To hear she opposed is disappointing enough but to hear why!

This also surprised me. I like Madigan. Her demeanor and humor make some of the aspects of government, which are usually boring, a little less so (i.e. council meetings). Also I tend to agree or understand her position on a lot of arguments, at least those I have followed. So the fact she closed this down so fast surprises me.

Add Vancouver B.C. to the list of progressive, well capitalized cities that get the value of the plucky chicken.

http://www.cityfarmer.org

As a wash ashore like Bullock, I always imagined Lakewood could reach for "true north," into a niche, a low-budget Portland, Seattle, Vancouver. A few of us did for a while. LEAF is an exemplar. But the powers that be are subject to prevailing winds of community memory more rooted in the South, in the hills and hollers. Thus the chicken evokes dreams of places past, not the city of the future.

It's too bad.

Back in 2003, I proposed that Lakewood was true north on the new political compass.

http://www.lkwdpl.org/focus/truenorth.pdf


Kenneth Warren

Well,

With all due respect for all opinions here...

Surprise, surprise, surprise...

To know that urbane, polished, and sublime visions can sometimes be usurped by people from the hills and hollers...

The Good Book does say something about the foolish of the world confounding the wise....

(although who is being foolish here, we might perhaps debate)

See..."Wash-ashores" come, not only from the "Educated East", but also from hills and hollers...of Alabama, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, Georgia...and they did so en masse, and particularly after WWII. All came here for a better life, and on the whole, probably achieved it..at least financially.

There was, after all, precious little gold left in those hills and hollers. I know. I was there.

What we did bring from there was a good knowledge of what needed to be left back there, and the farm was one of those things best left on the farm for a variety of reasons previously stated.

If I had to leave my dog Skippy to come here, so do others have to leave their chickens, pigs, goats, and barn rats. I would respectfully suggest that they get over it.

By the way, as far as education is concerned, I learned more about real life up in those hills and hollers that any university ever taught me, and I've attended a number of them.

However if it will make people feel any better, Dad just saw a 4 foot blacksnake yesterday slithering through our neighbor's garden, where I just saw a rabbit today.

I love you, Gary.

Your bango of love bridges the hills and hollers to NYC where I once served Peter Seeger a drink in my father's restaurant and bar on First Avenue and 91 st.

I 'm just another wash-ashore hillybilly from the Big Apple, where I believe the plucky chickens do their thing in El Bronx.

From high atop the chicken coop ladder of the ivory tower imagination, I remain your dear friend and comrade,

Kenneth Warren

Gary,

I guess your point is:

Rash decisions, fear mongering, glaring inaccurate information, "hollow" graphics and fictional proverbs outweigh actual experience and observations.

No Steve,

First off, you can in no way apply those charges to any comment of mine, because they would slip off quicker'n someone tryin' to grap a greased pig.

Facts are facts. Period.

But, let's call a truce here.
Ya'll keep your chickens, I'll keep my parrots.

At least you and I will take care of 'em.

Maybe Brother Ken Warren can take care of 'em when we go back to the hollers on vacation?

After all, he's right, ya' know. (he usually is ) Fer as I know, they've ALWAYS allowed chickens in the Big Apple!

Should'a called it the Big Egg.

I thought I’d throw this here, if this were true (and I presume it is), it’s outrageous....

As our government hands over billions to Wall Street bankers, jobless Americans live in tent cities and collect food stamps in record numbers. Now when we need it the most, growing our own food may be against the law and punishable by a fine of up to $1,000,000. Think I’m joking? Meet Bill HR 875, The Food Safety Modernization Act of 2009, introduced by Rosa DeLauro whose husband Stanley Greenburg works for Monsanto.

Here’s a link to the article I read, click here.

Whether or not we can raise a few hens may be the least of our worries. If this bill passes LEAF, Covered Bridge and our farmers market may be things of the past. We’ll have to eat whatever the industrial agricultural industry wants us to.