Obama And ACORN Subject of RICO Investigation!

sharon kinsella · Post by **sharon kinsella** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:54 pm

There you go Ryan.

We should support companies that we agree with, just makes sense. Enjoy your Dominoes pizza and Malley's candies (I bet I get slammed for that one).

Valerie Molinski · Post by **Valerie Molinski** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:30 pm

I know about Domino's already and never purchase it.

but what's with Malleys? I am genuinely curious.

sharon kinsella · Post by **sharon kinsella** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:51 pm

They give money to right-to-life.

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:03 pm

These businesses that give to right to life are just greedy republicans.

More babies = more adults = more customers.

They can't afford to have babies killed.

Neither can our economy now that a very large percentage of baby boomers are losing their life savings and going to have to get on government retirement.

We need all the workforce we can.

Pro-life for economic reasons

Lets at least limit the number of abortions per woman to 2. Can't we all agree it shouldn't be used as contraception? A little personal responsibility please?

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:15 pm

Ryan you do realize that most people who are pro-choice don't like abortions either, right? And people who are pro-choice are often the ones that push for greater use of birth control. Most of the people I have known in my life that are pro-life are against birth control too. And then there are the people like Sarah Palin who are against abortion in cases of rape and incest. She is also for woman who get raped paying for their own rape kits, she probably thinks it's their own fault.

I really don't think it's anyone's business if a woman chooses to have an abortion and if you do want to make it your business then I suggest you step up and agree to pay for the expenses of that child until they turn 18.

That is all I will say on this issue. Plus you already know where I stand on the issue of abortion.

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:41 pm

Why don't you like abortions?

If you are for less of them then lets limit the number woman can have. Why allow people that can't learn to use a condom use abortion as contraception.

I am pro-life and pro certain types of contraception.

Certain types of contraception cause spontaneous abortions. I believe that life begins at conceptions and believe that the intentional ending of that life is murder.

I am a big believer in personal responsibility so I think people to need to be careful. There are a lot of options to prevent pregnancy, and if you have an unwanted pregnancy there is a lot of support and options available as well.

I disagree with abstinence only programs but I think they need to be taught with safe sex practices.

Is there any common ground between pro-life and pro-choice?

Limitations on the number received?
2nd trimester?
3rd trimester?
Partial birth?

Should any and everything be allowed??

Danielle Masters · Post by **Danielle Masters** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:53 pm

This really isn't about me and you have already asked about my beliefs through pm's.

I don't like abortions because I do feel life begins at conception. I would love for there to be no abortions. But not all contraception is 100%. Women get raped. Women get pregnant with children with serious medical issues. Women get pregnant and their life is at risk. Abortion is legal in this country and I believe it is a private issue. I would never tell another woman what she could or couldn't do with her body. I know what it is like to sit in a doctor's office and hear a doctor tell you that you child might have down syndrome. I know what it is like to get pregnant while using birth control. My son didn't have downs but he does have other issues. I was a married women so it was okay that I had an unplanned pregnancy. But those we my choices. I would never have an abortion but once again that is my choice. And not every women is going to make those same choices.

As for abortion. I do not agree with late term or partial birth abortions. I think abortions should only be done in the first trimester if at all. And as I have told you before I would prefer adoption any day over abortion.

I think that we as a country need to make sure that all women have access to reliable birth control. I believe all girls and boys should have access to comprehensive sex education. If we could make sure that there were no unwanted pregnancies than abortion would be a non-issue.

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:04 pm

Danielle Masters wrote:I do not agree with late term or partial birth abortions... I would prefer adoption any day over abortion.

Finding common ground on the LO - so cool!

Patrick Andrews · Post by **Patrick Andrews** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:57 pm

While areas of common agreement are generally recognized as signs of progress in debate, I have always been puzzled by satisfaction of both sides on the abortion issue when it comes to their areas of agreement. On the pro-life side are those who allow for exceptions in the cases of rape, incest and children with birth defects. On the pro-abortion side are those willing to accept limitations in the second or third trimester or any arbitrary number of weeks.

What is puzzling is that these are the least reasonable and logically consistent positions on either side of the issue. If you believe that abortion is wrong because it is the taking of an innocent human life and that life begins at conception (a position which I believe is universally acknowledged) then the exceptions for rape, incest and health of the child make no sense. The child is no less innocent and alive when these conditions exist. On the other hand, if you do not believe abortion is the innocent taking of a human life, but rather a womanâ€™s choice to control her own body, then any restriction on abortion up to and perhaps even beyond the moment of birth (when the real work of motherhood begins) is an inconsistent and unjust burden on that right.

The most intellectually honest and logically consistent pro-life position would oppose abortion without exception. Similarly, the most logical pro-abortion position would not support any time restriction on abortion. Any compromise on either side would seem to require abandoning a core principle. The pleasant feeling of arriving at some common ground seems a small reward for undermining the legitimacy of your whole position.

dl meckes · Post by **dl meckes** » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:27 pm

Patrick Andrews wrote: life begins at conception (a position which I believe is universally acknowledged)

Really. We must run in different universes.

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:20 am

Patrick,

I am against ALL abortions. I am also realistic. We will never eliminate them all so reducing them as much as possible is benefitial to everyone involved.

I can see why pro-choice people can comprimise because their black and white arguement of "it's my body" gets gray by the time the baby can survive on its own outside of the womans body.

I think finding common ground to keep woman and children from the horrors and devastation of abortion is extremely benefitial.

sharon kinsella · Post by **sharon kinsella** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 5:33 am

If men could get pregnant, abortion would be a sacrament - That's from an old bumper sticker.

First of all it isn't pro-abortion, it's pro-choice.

Second - Not everython believes that life starts at the same time.

Third - I love "Pro-life" people. So concerned about the pre-born, no regard for the pre-dead.d

Fourth - I've met hundreds of Right-to-Life people. I've met few that adopt or help support women and their children when they can't work due to an unplanned pregnancy. I'm sure you all pitch in to help with the economic realities of raising these children.

I'll bet you're against the Children's Healthcare Iniative, the work Planned Parenthood does for family planning - you support those right.

I just know since you are so concerned you are truly working to make the world a better place.

Well?

I'm weary from this.

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:04 am

This has gotten way off track. I will continue down it though.

So your argument is because the women are poor they should not be responsible? Wow.

You are probably right sharon, kill them any time any way and any age. No common ground with folks like you. Thankfully you are the minority in this country.

:shock:

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:38 am

So your argument is because the women are poor they should not be responsible? Wow.

No, I think you've twisted it a bit. I believe that the foundation of her argument is that if you wish to impose your ideology upon someone, you should also be willing to share in the costs and burdens which accompany it.

As I view this argument (which has strayed one hell of a long way from acorns) we have a fundamental question of whether any given group should force their choices upon another. Imagine, if you will, a country where population is out of control, and because of this each family is allowed only one child. After that child, mandatory sterilization or required pregnacy termination. No choice...required pregnancy termination. One group imposing its will upon the other. And I'd be against that too (not that it would matter after all the lawyers have been eliminated).

So...how do feel about Capital Punishment?

Jeff

Ryan Salo · Post by **Ryan Salo** » Fri Oct 10, 2008 8:55 am

Capital Punishment?

If someone commits a crime that has a predetermined consequence of the death penalty they should get that consequence.

We just to make sure there is enough proof and that it is done in a timely fashion.

I would be happy to debate the specifics in a different thread if you want.

I believe that the death of the innocent is completely different then the death of the guilty.