The Observation Deck

Shawn Juris wrote:

Shawn Juris wrote:Jim,
If it was anyone else I would be happy to explain my point but since it's you, I'll assume that you get my point but just get a kick out of "playing" dumb.

Shawn

When I get your point, which I am now understanding more and more, and agree less and less. Does it then rise above any questions one might have?

What makes you so sure I am "playing?"

As always thanks for the kind words.

.

Cry me a river.

Sometime to look forward you have to look backward:

http://www.cleveland.com/healthfit/inde ... _adul.html

From the article:

"The main thing is that there are still going to be emergency rooms," Cosgrove said. "[Lakewood and Huron] are just not going to be where trauma is taken.

"The absolute driving force in this is dedication to trying to provide the very best quality to patients in Northeast Ohio."


One year later the Clinic closed Huron Hospital:

http://www.clevescene.com/scene-and-hea ... -august-22

Someone I know at Lakewood Hospital just told me that a major announcement about the future of Lakewood Hospital will be made late November.

He didn't mention it but it occurred to me that late November is AFTER the governors election.

I guess they could be announcing an expansion of service.

tick tock
tick tock

From the 2007 Shawn Juris:

Shawn Juris wrote:If the focus of this topic is the future relationship of the mayor and the hospital, is it more beneficial and realistic to spend time enhancing the existing business community? I doubt that the city of Lakewood is going to be able to win a negotiation with the Clinic by trying to restructure an agreement that demands they give us more. I would tend to believe that the Clinic's contribution in the way of employment, stability, and community support sound to be significant. The future leaders of Lakewood should work to maintain that, not try to demand more and risk the loss.
The more logical effort is to draw commercial interests of any kind so the reliance on the Clinic alone can be eliminated and we will not be at the mercy of one entity. Understanding why we lack powerhouses or even above average employers in this city would be something that sounds worthwhile. Who knows maybe down the road if we're stable based on other businesses, the clinic complex can be converted to a for profit business or we can shift city hall to that location to centralize the city operations.

Hey Matt... Is there some kind of point here? I see Shawn's seven-year old quote but I'm afraid I don't understand what you trying to point out.

Tim Liston wrote:Hey Matt... Is there some kind of point here? I see Shawn seven-year old quote but I'm afraid I don't understand what you trying to point out.

Thanks for asking for clarification, Tim.

But, I think you really do understand.

In any event, as was brought up earlier on this page:

Bill Call wrote:Sometime to look forward you have to look backward

It's like Shawn was looking into the future 7.5 years ago.

Matt

Matt if you are so familiar with what your seven-year-old Shawn Juris quote is trying to convey, at least in your mind, why don't you just explain it to us, instead of making me and the rest of us just guess. Please. Otherwise you might just be, well, a troll....

Tim Liston wrote:Matt if you are so familiar with what your seven-year-old Shawn Juris quote is trying to convey, why don't you just explain it to us, instead of making me and the rest of us just guess. Please. Otherwise you might just be, well, a troll....

Okay, I'll play along with you, Tim.

Maybe it's City Hall's current plan to draw commercial interests of any kind so the reliance on the Clinic alone can be eliminated and we will not be at the mercy of one entity. Understanding why we lack powerhouses or even above average employers in this city would be something that sounds worthwhile. Who knows maybe down the road if we're stable based on other businesses, the clinic complex can be converted to a for profit business or we can shift city hall to that location to centralize the city operations.

I wonder if anyone has thought of that before?

I seem to recall Shawn Juris stating this 7.5 years ago.

Matt

Matt says.... "Okay, I'll play along with you, Tim."

Matt if you want to engage me in a reasonable debate that others can follow, then don't insult me personally. I am at least as as smart as you and as well-informed as you and perhaps even more so. So get over yourself...

All I want to know, like I said a couple posts ago, is where you believe that your unearthed seven-year-old Shawn Juris post is off the mark. What part of that the Hospital may be going away and perhaps we need to replace it with other enterprises, well, where was that wrong?

Don't just quote it without comment. Especially as it was posted before any of the Lakewood Hospital stuff was obviously forthcoming.

Tim Liston wrote:Matt if you want to engage me in a reasonable debate that others can follow, then don't insult me personally. I am at least as as smart as you and as well-informed as you and perhaps even more so. So get over yourself...

Tim,

I didn't realize we were in a debate.

I'm not trying to insult you or call you out as a "troll."

I'm sure you are much smarter and more informed than me.

I'm just answering your questions directed to me.

Tim Liston wrote:All I want to know, like I said a couple posts ago, is where you believe that your unearthed seven-year-old Shawn Juris post is off the mark. What part of that the Hospital may be going away and perhaps we need to replace it with other enterprises, well, where was that wrong?

I missed that question in the above posts. Sorry about that.

In any event, I don't think Shawn Juris' 7.5 year old post is off the mark at all.

I think Shawn's 7.5 year old post is totally on the mark with what City Hall is planning for Lakewood Hospital today.

I had to read the title of this thread again to make sure I am in the right topic.

This thread is about what City Hall plans to do with Lakewood Hospital, right?

What are you and I debating again?

Matt

I wonder....

When the Clinic finally closes down Lakewood Hospital who is to blame?

Why would the Clinic close down a $150 million per year operation?

Could it have been prevented?

If not why not?

If so how?

How much is one third of one billion dollars?

Who is to blame? The changing nature of healthcare in today's economic reality. This is why many hospitals have closed over the past decade, and the few independents are being purchased, either by the for-profit mega-hospital companies, or by the large nonprofit companies. The days of a hospital being in every city are sadly over. For the Clinic, Fairview Park and Hillcrest are their big suburban hospitals, designed to handle almost anything, with specialty cases being sent downtown.

So why would the Clinic continue to pour money into Lakewood, a facility they do not own, rather than Fairview Park, which they do own? Or the Jacobs Health Center in Avon, which they're turning into a hospital. I have little doubt that Lakewood Hospital will close either soon, or within the next 5 years. There's little place for it in the Clinic's overall strategy. The best outcome for Lakewood would be to either have UH come in and replace the Clinic as the healthcare provider for the hospital ... though having the city own the hospital and UH leasing it would likely not work for UH. Or redevelopment of the property for commercial purposes (or like a previous post suggested, moving city hall there, and redeveloping the old city hall site). A recreation center? Not a bad use.

Pandora's Box has opened. Healthcare is changing dramatically, even without the Affordable Care Act. It will not be too long before there will only be the big hospital systems left. Consolidation will continue. If you look at the Clinic, they're very clear that UH shouldn't even survive ... they believe there should be very large regional hospitals, served by smaller health centers in outlying communities, to avoid any redundancies and duplication of services (or competition, for that matter). Will Toby Cosgrove's vision become the future? Hard to say. But obviously with the purchase of Parma and Elyria Hospitals, and looking at further acquisitions, UH isn't going silently into the night. They're positioning themselves for market growth, what little there is in Cleveland. And they could use a stronger presence on the West Side. Could Lakewood Hospital fit into that? Or would the Clinic downgrade Lakewood into a health center, with just outpatient physician offices, in an effort to "keep" Lakewood Hospital from falling into UH's hands, and holding more firmly onto the West Side patient market?

I don't know ... and I actually work in the industry. Frankly, few of us do, though there will be a great deal of conjecture on this site. We just have to see what unfolds, and hope that the city does the best thing for the citizens of Lakewood ... even if there are people on the forum here who don't like it. Because the Hospital could be downgraded to a health center ... or closed. And even UH could take a pass on it, leaving it an empty shell. Then what?

Bill Call wrote:I wonder....

When the Clinic finally closes down Lakewood Hospital who is to blame?

Why would the Clinic close down a $150 million per year operation?

Could it have been prevented?

If not why not?

If so how?

How much is one third of one billion dollars?

Bill

It this city constantly reminds me of a Martin Luther King Jr. quote, that exists in many different forms...

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people.
Martin Luther King, Jr.

What I find upsetting oh so regularly in this city is that many people know the different
between right and wrong, and they refuse to speak up. That people know what is good or
bad for a community, but they refuse to speak up. That many people are taking the city into
and era that could paint us into some ugly corners, and the good people refuse to speak up.

At what point does peer pressure mean more than a person moral's and responsibility to
one's community?

C. D.

Why healthcare has changed, a city of 52,000 needs a hospital closer than 20 minutes away.

Then there is the impact of the Hospital on DowntowN Lakewood. To lose it would be staggering,
and it should be on the heads, and the backs of those that stayed silent in an effort to
make it leaving as good for the city, and better for their careers.

.

Shawn Juris wrote: Who knows maybe down the road if we're stable based on other businesses, the clinic complex can be converted to a for profit business or we can shift city hall to that location to centralize the city operations.

This comment was made seven years ago.

A hospital is not just a place to get medical care. A hospital is also a source of income taxes and customers for local business. I'm always skeptical about statements on economic multipliers like "Lebron James is worth $500 million per year to the local community" but that affect is real. What is the economic multiplier of a $140 million business in downtown Lakewood?

I find it odd that a City that exerts great effort to build dollar stores is ready to give away a hospital.

Any announcement of the Hospitals closure won't come until after the governors election in November.