What is Lakewood doing to attact more minorities ?????

terry batdorf · Post by **terry batdorf** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:42 pm

Calm down Joan,

No one is telling anyone where to live. You keep bringing up the African American. Why do you perfer to only focus on them?

I just suggested that our city would be better off with a more diverse group of human beings. That includes all groups, not just one.
I guess some of LO types would make rather have empty homes and store fronts then a rich thriving diverse culturally rich community. I see racism is alive and well in Lakewood Ohio. How sad.

Ryan I glad to see you are open about your stereotypes. Just as well you dont live in Lakewood.

God Bless America!!!
Terry

Joan Roberts · Post by **Joan Roberts** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 5:53 pm

terry batdorf wrote:Calm down Joan,

No one is telling anyone where to live. You keep bringing up the African American. Why do you perfer to only focus on them?

I just suggested that our city would be better off with a more diverse group of human beings. That includes all groups, not just one.
I guess some of LO types would make rather have empty homes and store fronts then a rich thriving diverse culturally rich community. I see racism is alive and well in Lakewood Ohio. How sad.

Ryan I glad to see you are open about your stereotypes. Just as well you dont live in Lakewood.

God Bless America!!!
Terry

I thought as much.

When other posters mentioned ethnic diversity in response to your original post, it was YOU who brought up color.

.

Do you only favor only the addition of people that fit in the white/caucasion catagory to Lakewood or are you willing to support people that may fit into other catagories too?

YOUR words. 7/28/06 at 10:42 a.m.

And for all your verbiage, you deftly avoided my question about any ideas you might have, or even my question about your comment regading renters.

In my family, that's called good old-fashioned "s***-stirring".

Thanks for confirming

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 6:32 pm

Joan Roberts wrote:I don't know how many African-Americans read or contribute to the Observer...

Joan

We have had more than a handful along with Jews and Palestinians and Jordanese(?) all working together. In the office and on the Observer project there is no room for attitudes or egos. It all gets checked at the door.

The reason I do not know exact numbers is I have only had the pleasure of meeting 1bout 1/3rd of the submitters. At no point is anyone asked anything they do not want to share, and even then it is ignored. The paper has been edited by card carrying Democrat's and republicans, and no one could tell the difference.

It is very unfair for me at 6'4, blue eyes, white skin to say this, but the only time discriptions have any value in my life is when you are describing someone to look for to me. At some point we have to realize we are all in this mess together, why divide when we can build.

Terry can yearn for minorities to become majorities. All I want are good neighbors and to be a good neighbor.

.

terry batdorf · Post by **terry batdorf** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:43 pm

Joan,

Nice try, but i was responding to C. Dawson's reference at 11:34...
"I think new immigrants are moving into Lakewood, though on a census they may be considered "white/caucasian" because of the narrow view of statisticians."

Save your hate for someone else. I see you for what you are.

I never really thought of Lakewood as a sundown town, based on the lack "leadeeship" response to my original post and the attacks I have endured since posting it shows the level of racism that exists here today.

Yes, Jim I will continue to hope for a better more diverse Lakewood.
As for the ego comment, of course everyone must check them at the door. Yours take up so much space already. One more question Jim,
do you ever quit kissing the local politicians butts? Thanks for avoiding my questions.

God Bless America!!!
Terry

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Mon Jul 31, 2006 9:28 pm

terry batdorf wrote:Save your hate for someone else.

Terry

Joan knows you and has you framed perfectly, and you go out in a hissy fit, attack the fairest person on the board.

---

Kiss politician's ass.

At least they are trying to do something...

... instead of helplessly whinning.

Unlike you, I respect people voted in by a majority.

.

terry batdorf · Post by **terry batdorf** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:35 am

Jimmy,

1) Joan nor you actually know me.
2) Just because someone disagrees with you it is not whinning or a hissy fit.
3) You have no idea what I do to further the causes I care about.
4) Kissing politicians asses that do nothing is not doing something.
5) You avoid any question i posed.
6) Joan was wrong in her reference to me and should admit it.
7) I am a disenter here, and seem to hate people that rise up against the local political machine. You are willing to defend the local politicial machine to matter what they do. I question them, you follow them blindly.

God Bless America!!!
Terry

Suzanne Metelko · Post by **Suzanne Metelko** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 10:12 am

Jim - disengage.

David Anderson · Post by **David Anderson** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:26 pm

Numbers to aid (hopefully) this conversation -

According to the U.S. Census County and City Data Book: 2000 (http://www.census.gov/prod/2002pubs/00c ... _tabC2.pdf)

Lakewood's population by age, 2000 (Cleveland Hts. in brackets for comparison)
under 5 - 5.9% (6.2%)
5 to 17 - 15.1% (17.7%)
18 to 24 - 9.5% (9.2%)
25 to 44 - 37.2% (31.6%)
45 to 64 - 20.1% (23.6%)
65 to 74 - 5.7% (6.2%)
75 to 84 - 4.6% (4.2%)
85 and up - 1.9% (1.3%)
Median Age - 34.2 years (35.2 years)
Males per 100 females - 92.9 (87.5)

Population by race, 2000 (again, I included Cleveland Hts. in brackets for comparison)
White - 52,723 (26,229)
Black or AA - 1,116 (20,873)
American Indian - 139 (81)
Asian - 800 (1,280)
Some other race - 349 (338)
Two or more races - 1,504 (1,152)

Quick math, let's see: Lakewood has a total population of 56,621 so non whites comprise of 7%. Cleveland Hts. has a total population of 50,316 and non whites comprise of 48%.

Anyone can go to the website above and compare/contrast any Ohio city over 25,000 in population.

Any reaction to these numbers? (I think it's amazing that Lakewood has more folks over 75 than under 5.) But I digress, these are serious numbers and I hope folks have an opportunity to digest them and give their thoughts.

Vince Frantz · Post by **Vince Frantz** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:34 pm

I really don't understand the word "diversity" as all it seems to apply to these days is skin shade or parental lineage. I am not sure how either of these bring any meaningful value to a community by themselves. How does your skin color or grandparents have a direct impact on innovation, the economy or community?

Any improvement in a community comes from individuals and groups with ideas and an ability to execute them. Managing the barriers to new ideas and an environment that favors experimentation and execution would seem to bring about the desired quality of life indicators that every community seeks.

Is there a direct correlation between a mix of skin shades and ethnicities that finally allows new ideas to emerge and a way to implement them? A true diversity within the framework of how policy and community values evolve cannot be found in skin color, language or a flag. But it does seem to be an easy way to divide and conquer when an individual wants to advance a selfish agenda.

Suzanne Metelko · Post by **Suzanne Metelko** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 4:40 pm

David, I appreciate the work you did but I don't believe that six year old numbers are going to give us any clear indicators. Lakewood 2000 is substantially different than Lakewood 2006. The United States of 2000 is considerably different than US 2006. Its a shame that in the age of technology the best we've got are numbers published in 2000 which means they're really numbers from 1999 or earlier.

I really like Vince's perspective. You'll never convince me that skin color is an indicator of anything other than pigment level.

Joan Roberts · Post by **Joan Roberts** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:59 pm

Suzanne Metelko wrote: You'll never convince me that skin color is an indicator of anything other than pigment level.

Precisely next point I was going to bring up, until I realized this wasn't actually a serious thread, but rather a pretty obvious bit of bomb-throwing.

There is nothing intrinsically beneficial about having a community that fits one model of "diversity" or another. The value of a "diverse" community is a subjective one, and that value is higher for some than for others. You may think it's better to have a 50-50 mix of white and non-white. I might think it's better to live in a town with a lot of farmers or Scandinavians or Harley riders. Again, intensely personal.

And since there's no quantifiable benefit to having x number of Native Americans and y number of Pacific Islanders and z number of WASPs, there's no rationale for government to get involved. PROVIDING (and I say that in caps) that there is no effort to violate the letter or spirit of fair housing laws, no proveable pattern of police harrassment, etc.

Safe streets and good schools and building a better civic mousetrap are what I want my government to spend its time worrying about, not ticks on a Census form.

Actualy, there is a fascinating discussion possible about why ethnic/racial/religous groups live where they live, but this thread isn't it.

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:41 pm

There is nothing intrinsically beneficial about having a community that fits one model of "diversity" or another. The value of a "diverse" community is a subjective one, and that value is higher for some than for others. You may think it's better to have a 50-50 mix of white and non-white. I might think it's better to live in a town with a lot of farmers or Scandinavians or Harley riders. Again, intensely personal

Exactly Joan. The real issue is whether, as a community we welcome a wide range of people. And certainly not limited to the racial definition which may define "diversity" to a small mind, but in all areas in which we may differ.....Economics, religious, sexual orientation, age, gender, ethnicity, employment, politics....I have been in communities that are racially mixed, but, beyond that there is no diversity (same jobs, same church, same political party, etc.) I have lived in communities that have virtually no racial mix, but are incredibly diverse in matters of religion, economics, ethnicity, and so forth.

Trying to distill this into a race card issue is a disingenuous. The real question is whether this city welcomes persons, regardless of their religion, their ethnicity, their sexual orientation, age, gender, political leanings. I think the track record in this regard is not only quite clear, but demonstrates a level of acceptance that other cities would hope to emulate.

Jeff

David Scott · Post by **David Scott** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 7:36 pm

This thread is all about what is Lakewood doing to attract minorities, but I think it should be expanded - What is Lakewood doing to make minorities feel comfortable here. If you talk to blacks in Cleveland, the whole west side is foreign territory that they have no desire to travel to. Some of the attitudes on the West Side don't help. Its a generalization, but when a generalization is reinforced it quickly becomes an accepted truth.

I lived 8 years in Cleveland Heights and now 7 years in Lakewood. I have dark skin, dark hair and dark eyes though I am white. I spend a lot of time in Houston and down there they say I just came off the bus. In Cleveland Heights I had no problem. I do a lot of running, and sometimes I run aggressively. In Lakewood I have been called a spic, a jew and an A-rab while running. I have gone all over the place, and have not had this type of language thrown out. Now it could be that I run mostly in Lakewood, but I don't get the comments elsewhere. When I go to the stores here, I can feel the eyes on me expecting a commotion somewhere.

So it is not what Lakewood is doing to attract minorities, but what are they doing to make minorities feel comfortable.

david

Joan Roberts · Post by **Joan Roberts** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:16 pm

David Scott wrote:This thread is all about what is Lakewood doing to attract minorities, but I think it should be expanded - What is Lakewood doing to make minorities feel comfortable here.

I guess I would ask you, in all sincerity, the same question I posed to Mr. Batdorf and hope you would offer a sincere response.

What would you have the city do?

As a civic entity, it's the city's job to enforce the law. That means no discrimination in hiring, housing, police protection, etc. I don't think the city has the means, or the responsibility, to turn every Archie Bunker into Mother Theresa.

If there's a "respect for others" drug they could put in the city's drinking water, I'd be all for it. Alas.......

You could make the same statement about virtually every community in the country, INCLUDING those with "minority majorities". When you find a community that has somehow managed to change people's hearts and minds, you'll find a wonderful place indeed.

Discrimination is a matter of crime. Intolerance is an issue of character. Mr. Gibson, odious as his comments were, can only be tried for drunken driving.

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:24 pm

David

Why does "minority" automatically translate in your analysis to a racial, as opposed to ethnic, religious, economic, gender, sexual orientation or any group that is not in the majority?

And is a racially equalized community necessarily diverse? Or more diverse than Lakewood ? What about the myriad other ways, besides pigmentation, that we are all, in one way or another, a member of a minority?

Just wondered.

Jeff