Grade C for Lakewood City Schools?

[Tim Liston]

I’m not gonna even try to follow this conversation down to the last nuance. As a mathematician in a former life I tend to think logically, and empirically. And as a businessman/entrepreneur, it honestly doesn’t matter why it’s not working. If it’s not working, something has to change, now, before it’s too late. However….

1) Gary seems to believe that Lakewood teachers (and presumably teachers in most traditional schools, be they government-run or private) are “saddled” with testing and other requirements mandated by the state and NCLB. Nonsense. Traditional school teachers, most of whom work for the government, welcome these requirements, though they won’t ever admit it. Why? Because when you get right down to it, teaching "subject matter" is pretty easy, certainly a lot easier than a non-traditional pedagogy, for example Montessori, with which I am pretty familiar. Or teaching for example to the International Baccalaureate. I don’t for one second believe that government school teachers are truly upset by the status quo. The fact is, all this “controversy” gives credence to the notion that subject-matter pedagogy is hard, even at the AP level. It’s not. I could teach almost any subject at Lakewood High and do it well, with a one-week head start.

2) Further, and to Amy’s point, Einstein would be completely beside himself by what’s taking place in our educational system. Which is to say, despite ample evidence that government schools in particular are failing to educate many (most?) students, over the years the only thing we are doing differently is that we are throwing more money at them, wanting but not getting better results. Why? Because the primary education establishment (teachers and administrators) are just fine with the status quo. I’m beginning to wonder whether primary education should even be compulsory after maybe the fifth grade. But more warm bodies in classrooms begets more state money. So we round them up. And so it goes….

3) What I’d really like to know…. What are traditional schools doing to solve some of the long-term problems we all face: environmental degradation, warmongering and geopolitical chaos, central bank monkeyshines, faltering pensions and Social Security, healthcare malfeasance, massive surveillance, hyper-complexity, crumbling infrastructure, rampant corruption and other anti-social behaviors, financialization and rent-seeking (aka “money grubbing”), energy depletion, the student loan fiasco, unchecked blight, moronic mainstream entertainment and “news,” $21 trillion debt, wishful thinking and the like? We acknowledge these issues then go right back to trying to teach binomials to every 15-year-old in the country. Dr. Barnes said in an interview that he was going to concern himself with educating “the whole child.” That made me laugh out loud. Empty words borrowed straight from the non-traditional talking points, and that will never take place in government schools, not even close. The status quo cannot pull it off. No way. And what good are the schools or other government institutions that are not in the business of solving important problems?

4) I’ve said this before here in these pages. If Lakewood was really interested in better preparing its young, it would eliminate LCSD, turn every district school over to charter operators, put the money in the hands of the parents in the form of vouchers, and watch the schools adapt and thrive (or not), and watch young parents flock to Lakewood.

Some things to ponder this morning. Written quickly so I hope I didn’t misspeak much….

[Gary Rice]

Gee, there's that weasel word "seems" again...."i.e: Gary seems...."

Hi Tim, I've missed you.

Believe it or not, Tim and I became good friends and allies (at least that was my perception!) when we were helping the City of Lakewood to develop their programs about how to handle biking, as Tim and I LOVE bikes. My respect for him is deep and sincere, and surprisingly, I agree with many of the points that he just made.

I LOVE the concept of Montessorri (highly individualized) education, for example.


That's why I made the remark that perhaps each student should have an IEP. (Individualized Education Plan) In my opinion, the more individualized an educational program gets, the more opportunities for success...

...and, (as has already and repeatedly been pointed out here) Lakewood is doing an excellent job in doing this.


For the record, as I've stated, it's not that testing is bad. If it is diagnostic and prescriptive in nature, and therefore seeks to accurately aid and measure student progress, then it can be an essential tool for instruction. (Note Lakewood's high score in the value added department, and that's what I'm addressing here)


Tim, as a strong math guy, you well know that math, for example, is a skill-building subject. You must be able to know how to add before you subtract, and how to multiply before you divide. In Geometry and Algebra, there are things like theorems and postulates to memorize, along with plenty of higher level learning to absorb and quite frankly, not everyone is going to "get it" at the same moment in time. Your own reference to Einstein would be a classic case in point that you are making yourself. He thought very unconventionally, and did have trouble in the one-size-fits-all school for that reason. I think that you underscored my own point about Lakewood's schools being EXCELLENT regarding trying their level best to make sure that any Lakewood Einsteins do not get left out of the mix.


A HUGE problem with too many schools today that are locked into the standardized testing paradigm, is that they teach for content and not for mastery, in order to cover the mandated standards for a school year, stuff gets glossed over. When that happens in Math, far too many students can get left in the dust. We MUST do better to assist students who just do not get it. We need more tutor volunteers. How 'bout it Tim?


You mention confronting the real problems in our world in the classroom,, but you see, that is precisely what so many agenda-minded activists DO NOT want to see happening. The ONLY way that we can address those much needed controversial topics, is in having the flexible time and the academic freedom to do so. This open classroom philosophy is very much a danger to those having closed minds. I am totally with you on that one!


I'd go one further. I'd like to see a mandatory course on car battery jumping, toilet repairs, home financial management, how to balance a checkbook, faucet washer fixing...in short, more practical stuff, but I digress here. Can't do much of it now because so many powers-that-be are filled with the notion that academics alone rule in school. Schools used to do much of this as a matter of course in jr.high shop classes, but these days?


Tim, as you can see, I'm pretty much with you until I see your last point about doing away with public schools. With a public school, they are owned and run by YOU. Private schools can take public accountability, as well as the ability to redress grievances away from you, plus they often are for-profit too, which adds to the overall cost of doing business.


Oh yes too...Your remark about being able to teach without full teacher training? Some people think that they can. I would advise getting a bit more training than you mention above. There's a bit more to it than meets the eye, my friend.


I would rather see this kind of intelligent discussion about public schools, however critical, than have to go up against some privately-run institution that may not feel that they need to respond to our concerns. Here in the public arena at least, we can all contribute to making our schools better, both through our participation, and through the ballot box.


Finally Tim, perhaps you too should consider running for a position on the school board?

Back to the banjo...

[Stan Austin]

I am following this discussion of Deck Members for whom I have the highest regard. Sometimes I get the feeling that they are outpacing my knowledge to reply. However, they must have an effective argument to convince folks like me who maybe have a faded idealistic view of what school was/is like.
Carry on gentlemen.
Stan

[Stan Austin]

and, gentle ladies, too

[Gary Rice]

Stan:

Why not run for the School Board and find out?

Back to the banjo...

[cmager]

For-profit charter schools are the agenda of a national elite who see a revenue stream and covet it, who covet privatization and profitization. Starve the publics, fund the charters, rinse, repeat.

Why would you go charter schools, only to see lack of accountability, and charter revenues funneled to company profits and back to Kasich and his investor/cronies? You already own the public district schools. Better to dig in and contribute to their success than it is to needlessly replicate or damage.

[Dan Alaimo]

If the schools were privatized then would we be able to discuss, and complain loudly, when they under-perform, as is the case? I agree on the need for a public school system, but disagree that we have to settle for what we've got now - grade C.

[Tim Liston]

It’s a mistake to conflate IEPs with Montessori. IEPs are how we “instruct” children individually. “IEPs for everyone” would just be expensive tutoring for kids who aren’t inclined to learn what is being taught in the classroom at that particular time. Montessori is exactly the opposite. Montessori helps students initiate their own learning, given the student’s inclinations at the time, typically in a very well-prepared environment. Children in a Montessori classroom go from one thing to the next more or less as they are inclined. And you can’t get there from where we are now. Or to an IB program (though I think Westlake did it so maybe there's hope). Or anywhere else for that matter. The education establishment at all levels won’t let you. It likes the way things are now at $15K+ a pop and it’s too entrenched. Amy was a bit blunt for my tastes, but she’s absolutely right.

And one also shouldn’t conflate the process with the goals. I agree, the whole charter process as it has historically occurred, stinks. But that doesn’t mean having some kind of say in how and where one educates one’s children is a flawed goal. The same people who would be outraged at having to use only the services of a “district” doctor or tax preparer don’t think twice about sending their kids to the only school they’re allowed, the one that happens to be where they live. I just don’t know what’s so agonizing about letting parents choose their child’s school. I did. Why can’t everyone? (Every once in a great while I encounter issues that could bring conservatives and progressives together. It seems to me this should be one of them. So long as conservatives are OK with the notion of “free” public education, and progressives are OK with it being very reasonably-priced.)

Just more thoughts….

[Brian Essi]

If the schools were privatized then would we be able to discuss, and complain loudly, when they under-perform, as is the case? I agree on the need for a public school system, but disagree that we have to settle for what we've got now - grade C.

When you have money in your pocket and you take it from a business, you don't need to speak loudly--the money does the talking.

We are all paying for schools now whether we like them or not--- the only "choices" we have is to withdraw our kids from the C-grade school is to move out of Lakewood or take more money out of our pockets a choose a school.

We are also paying the salaries of these entrenched uninspired school board members that Mr. Rice claims are somehow bound and gagged in Lakewood by the state government.

As a "rarefied air" breather, I was fortunate enough to pull my daughters out of St. Joseph Academy--a school that lacked good leadership and was horrible in many ways. It was very liberating---and I understand they actually instituted some of the reforms I advocated upon my departure---the market generally works, but slowly.

Mr. Liston's idea of giving Lakewood residents the control over the educational money is a great one, but not necessarily new---and for the reasons he cites it will likely never happen---but it would certainly blow away Lakewood's neighboring communities as far as Lakewood home sales and rentals are concerned. The brand new schools could then be sold to the highest bidders---perhaps made into condos that would please the current city administration. But given the majority of the current School Board's complicity with City Hall, the likes of the Clinic, the mayor's friends or Tony George would likely end up with the properties for 5 cents on the dollar and tax abatements. But Mr. Liston and I are just "high" on "rarefied air."

[Gary Rice]

Confession time:

I HATED school from my first day in the classroom. I still find much to object about "school". Maybe even more than Tim and Brian do.


History time:

Pre-test for first grade, Pennsylvania, 1956-7. (AND I REMEMBER THIS AS IF IT WERE YESTERDAY)

(Kids remember stuff very well, especially the traumatic stuff)

Little Gary enters a classroom, speaks for the first time and all the kids laugh at his funny voice and deformed leg walk...

He sits down to take a test. Gets a question wrong. It was a question showing a picture of two umbrellas. One with a straight handle, the other with a curved handle. Which was the man's umbrella? Don't ask me which was which. I've forgotten the answer and strangely, I've never needed to know it in life either.


Little Gary stands up, tells the teacher "I'm not staying here", and walks out of the room. Took another year to convince me to return to 1st grade. SEEMS I was too immature, not ready.


You bet I wasn't, and maturity had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with it.


When I went to school, I went to war. I was a seriously ill child needing many surgeries, who took nothing from nobody. Still don't. Dad and Mom told me to be proud of the person I was, and not to let anyone put me down or tease me. My absences alone in old school records tell quite a tale. We moved to Lakewood in my 2nd grade. Things were still rough, with the fortunate exception of some people who cared and took the time to help.


The wide amount of interests and opportunities for success in Lakewood, along with my exceptional vocabulary skills, made school at least tolerable enough that I was able to graduate.


Look, I agree with a whole bunch of the points that Brian and Tim and others say about schools generally, except for that one thing about abandoning them for privatization. I also get Tim's distinction between Montessorri and IEP education, but either way, paying more attention to an individual student's needs DOES HELP to make for greater success. Yes, for a great many reasons, you are likely not going to be able to rescue everyone, but sheesh everybody, should you not at least try?

Still, with every fiber of my being, when I walked out of Lakewood High for the last time as a student, I wanted to be DONE with public education, and all of the excrement that went with it....


...and then, I realized...



...that there were thousands of kids who needed my help who were still in the schools., and no one was better qualified to help them that someone who had gone through AND SURVIVED the H-E-double hockey sticks of the day-to-day ongoing school experience.

You all know too that these could have been public or private schools because as Brian said, the whole school paradigm is indeed well entrenched and so much so that even the Lakewood schools that I love so dearly (relatively so, that is, my good friends and neighbors ) find it hard to break out of that horrid institutional lock-step.

So I went on to become a classroom teacher for special needs kids, and so often my struggles were to try not only to get my students through school, but to teach schools that it's OK to adapt and individualize for my kids. I was a pioneer special education educator in Lakewood's schools when secondary special education services were just being introduced nationwide. (Before that, special education was thought to be needed only in the elementary grades)


My fellow pioneer special educators and I laid the groundwork for MANY of the EXCELLENT innovations that your Lakewood Schools use AND ARE RECOGNIZED FOR today! Lakewood was indeed a pioneer district in that respect, and they can be proud of that.


The Board's hands ARE tied, on so many matters, but fortunately, not ALL of them, and YOU AND THE BOARD DO STILL HAVE BOTH OWNERSHIP AND AT LEAST A SAY AS TO HOW OUR SCHOOLS ARE RUN. Some people love to call these "government schools", but anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of civics will tell you that the public schools in our country were created to be independent of government

It's only been in the last couple of decades that governments have interjected more and more into schools through unfunded mandates, testing, and all this top-down dictated accountability stuff. To be fair, a lot of that has certainly helped the cause of Civil Rights and improved education for all. At the same time, it has brought unexpected challenges that schools continue to struggle with.


Don't like school? Yeah, I was with you on that one too, but you can either stand on the outside and criticize or roll up your sleeves and work to make all this better.

Now you know what I did and WHY I did it. What will YOU do?


Back to the banjo...

[Brian Essi]

My fellow pioneer special educators and I laid the groundwork for MANY of the EXCELLENT innovations that your Lakewood Schools use AND ARE RECOGNIZED FOR today! Lakewood was indeed a pioneer district in that respect, and they can be proud of that.

2018: C

[Gary Rice]

Can't argue with the cold hard facts, can we?

OK then, apples to apples with the comparison:

2018: Lakewood City School District overall value added grade A
2018: Lakewood City School District lowest 20% value added grade A

These were the specific areas that I fought for when I taught, and those were where my specialties lay. These scores, I am indeed pleased with.


As for the other areas?


Well, consider this: Did we all not come home with mixed report cards as students ourselves? How did our parents handle the situation? Did they not (hopefully for most of us) praise our strengths and encourage us and try to seek ways for us to improve our weak areas?


Let us then do the same with our schools. Get involved.


Back to the banjo...

[dl meckes]

The Memoirs of Jesse James

I remember all those thousands of hours
that I spent in grade school watching the clock,
waiting for recess or lunch or to go home.
Waiting: for anything but school
My teachers could easily have ridden with Jesse James
for all the time they stole from me.

Richard Brautigan

[cmager]

Those people who endeavor to call them "government schools" are the national deceitful elite (Koch DeVos) who seek to privatize and profitize the public schools. The medical industry and it's revenues have already been captured by Big Pharma and the likes of the Clinic. So going down the list, the revenue stream that goes towards education is mighty attractive to these robber barons. "Government schools" is a pejorative that fits their narrative.

Do some reading. Question why Kasich and his cronies are so bought by charter operators. Question why one political party is so bought up by $B libertarians focused on dismantling public education PreK-16. There are plenty of documentaries out there on the attacks on public education, charter schools, and the like. Try "Backpack Full of Cash" or similar titles.

[Matthew Lee]

Because we are so focused on the "D" grade in Prepared for Success, I decided on my coffee break this AM to dig deeper into the data to really understand what is meant by a "D" in this. In the interest of full disclosure, our daughter just graduated from Lakewood High School and we could not be happier with her education. She spent her entire school life (K-12) in Lakewood Public Schools and both my wife and I could not be more pleased with the person she has become by attending Lakewood Public Schools.

Now, onto the data. Here is a link to the explanation for why Lakewood received a D:

https://reportcard.education.ohio.gov/d ... red/044198

Basically, two components were calculated, added up and then divided by the "Graduation Cohort" to determine a percentage that is then equated to a grade. Looking at each component individually:

1) Number of students that earned a remediation free score on all parts of the ACT or SAT, earned an honors diploma, and/or earned an industry-recognized credential.

<My Thoughts> : This is ok. Weird that it is just a straight "Number of Students" but they are basically saying, how many students either took the ACT or SAT without remediation. Because the state of Ohio pays for one SAT or ACT test for each student, this is logical.

2) The number of "bonus" students that count an additional 0.3 bonus points each, because they did the above and also earned a 3 or higher on at least one AP exam; earned a 4 or higher on at least one IB exam; and/or earned at least three college credits before leaving high school.

<My Thoughts> : Wait. What? The number of "bonus" students? Who came up with this one? Breaking down further, (a) number of students who earned a 3 or higher on at least one AP exam. I know from experience, AP exams aren't inexpensive. This heavily weighs towards districts with higher average incomes. Why be punished for not taking an AP exam but taking the AP class? And what about all the kids who are "prepared" for the real life but have no desire for AP classes or tests? (b) earned a 4 or higher on at least one IB exam. Well, any district that is NOT IB gets a fat zero. That is Lakewood. (c) and/or earned at least three college credits before leaving high school. Heavily weighted towards districts where going to high school is solely to get to college. That is not necessarily the goal of every student.

Finally, add up those raw numbers (in Lakewood's case 299 + 140 = 341) and divide by a Graduation Cohort number (731) and you get a percent of 46.6% of a D. But, what EXACTLY is the Graduation Cohort number? Your guess is as good as mine. I have Googled and researched and have no idea where that number comes from and what it means. If I was personally graded on this by a professor, you are darned tooting that I would require her or him to tell me what the Graduation Cohort number is and where it came from. At this point, it is a mystery number. If anyone can find a link that tells us exactly where it came from, it would be greatly appreciated.

So, essentially, we received a D in Prepared for Success because of a combination of our kids not necessarily all wanting to go to college and a mystery number, then I definitely question this grade. If others want to point to it and say "See, our schools are failing" I can't stop that. But to my eyes, logic and common sense, this specific grade deserves greater scrutiny.