The Observation Deck

Apparently, some are offended by my posts. That's okay. I stand behind what I say. Look at the way this government operates. Does it appear that Summers does not have authoritarian tendencies?

There must be something about my posts that the mayor and friends find interesting, as they seem quite perturbed by many of them. I must be very close to discovering what has been going on with the money and the city.

Message to the mayor: I believe I am getting close and I will not stop.

Jim,

Please don't change anything the way it is now. Most seem to think it's okay.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Dan Alaimo wrote:Curious how this will work in practice, how the forums might be integrated, how traffic might be driven from one forum to another, and from the outside in.

Dan

As you know, the forums and the layout is not the original. A person that was taking over for me, and was subsequently harassed out of the job by some posters, was trying to arrange it how it made sense for them. As you found out, I am open open to anything, especially the project being run by young mothers, who have completely different thoughts than I. This is one of the reasons, I get a kick out of "O'Bryan controls..." stop whining and step up.

As you know we talked about reorganizing the Deck which is a massive undertaking.

Most thought, a hot ACTIVE section with things being filed after they had fallen to page 3. The problem, what would have happened with school projects, sports, many thing that should hit the top again.

As with all aspects of this project, let me know how to make it better, more exclusive, more precise and I am more than willing to listen and try it.

.

Jim,
Many of these questions are more for the software guys as to what can be developed on the current platform.
To put forward one thought: multiple forums, some moderated by the originators and some not, but all posts appearing on the master "Lakewood General Discussions" page along with some indication that it will be linked to the other forum with whatever moderator and restrictions that might be in place there. What I want to see is a "one-stop shop" for everything that is new today on the deck. Where it leads me from there is less important.
More conversation is needed.
Dan

Lori Allen _ wrote:Apparently, some are offended by my posts. That's okay. I stand behind what I say. Look at the way this government operates. Does it appear that Summers does not have authoritarian tendencies?

There must be something about my posts that the mayor and friends find interesting, as they seem quite perturbed by many of them. I must be very close to discovering what has been going on with the money and the city.

Message to the mayor: I believe I am getting close and I will not stop.

Jim,

Please don't change anything the way it is now. Most seem to think it's okay.

Lori,
A lot of your research is invaluable and I hope you keep it up.
However, I have to chime in on this point: when I see your catchphrase "Lord Lakewood", I generally stop reading.

Lori Allen _ wrote:Apparently, some are offended by my posts. That's okay. I stand behind what I say. Look at the way this government operates. Does it appear that Summers does not have authoritarian tendencies?

There must be something about my posts that the mayor and friends find interesting, as they seem quite perturbed by many of them. I must be very close to discovering what has been going on with the money and the city.

Message to the mayor: I believe I am getting close and I will not stop.

Jim,

Please don't change anything the way it is now. Most seem to think it's okay.

Lori

It is simply a question.

Lori, I used you as an example because I knew you could take it.

This is also the point, some people can take it, others not so much.

No change planned, just simple thoughts being shared.

.

Dan Alaimo wrote: More conversation is needed.
Dan

hence the post

Dan Alaimo wrote:However, I have to chime in on this point: when I see your catchphrase "Lord Lakewood", I generally stop reading.

I would agree that it's not always the content of what is said, often it is simply how it is said which sets the tone of a discussion.
When you put ridiculous statements on every thread such as "Lord Lakewood" you kill any chance of intelligent conversation with anyone outside of your "bubble"
Now I simply stop reading when the comment posted by Lori Allen. Offended? Not at all. Just smart.

Right or wrong, it sets you up to lose... just like it happened in the national elections.

" A mosh pit of ideas."
That imagery works for me. Elbows thrown, elbows taken. So what. Have at it. Flaws and all.
And that leads me to this, I think it's a complete cop-out that tone nullifies content.
If you're lost by the tone it's because you never wanted to get near the content. Near the truth.
Because that's what bursts your bubble.

m buckley wrote:" A mosh pit of ideas."
That imagery works for me. Elbows thrown, elbows taken. So what. Have at it. Flaws and all.
And that leads me to this, I think it's a complete cop-out that tone nullifies content.
If you're lost by the tone it's because you never wanted to get near the content. Near the truth.
Because that's what bursts your bubble.

Early members thought, "The Mosh Pit of Word Jazz" as a nod to Ken Nordine, who most of us loved, and his "Word Jazz" and Mosh Pits which was the coming wave at the time and something very near and dear to many of our hearts for many reasons, not limited to the crashing of bodies, ideas, attitudes, art, music, sound, visions in a nearly tribal way. While other original members would say, get a load of those kooks.



.

I personally think that there is too much vitriol anymore on the Deck, and it gets to the point where the personal attacks on people are tiring. Whether you like certain people or not, it's just not right to go on personal attacks. Our community needs to heal after the whole hospital issue, not have a greater divide. This forum should be for ideas on how to IMPROVE the city without attacking individuals and claiming fascism. The print paper is more balanced, which I appreciate from you Jim, despite your personal views. Maybe some of the things I see on here are certain people pivoting toward running for an elected position, but the tempers need to cool a bit

bentleymike wrote:Our community needs to heal after the whole hospital issue, not have a greater divide. This forum should be for ideas on how to IMPROVE the city

I'm really curious, what are some of the ideas/views/issues that people feel are neglected?

I am genuinely interested in learning what else is out there. Jim O'Bryan wrote a thoughtful post about opiods, recently. Besides that, I'm really in some doubt whether the conversations here keep coming back to complaints related to Lakewood Hospital and integrity at city hall because of partisan fixation… or because these issues' significance, relative to anything else going on in Lakewood, is actually proportionate to the amount of comment that they generate relative to anything else going on in Lakewood.

The result of Issue 64 is the result… but that result included essentially everyone at city hall lining up, to say that their handling of the whole hospital issue will improve the city… and a substantial portion of the population nonetheless saying no, that's actually something that acutely needs to improve. That is an objectively big divide. I don't believe that just pretending it no longer exists can make it go away. If there is any plausible gesture that would in fact promote healing, I'm pretty sure that it would involve some form of compromise; if anyone can recall an instance when actual compromise was on offer and the city's critics shot it down, do remind me. As a historian I like to keep some track of the plot.

(For the purposes of fairness, I do acknowledge that three members of city council have argued passionately that differences between the Letter of Intent and the Master Agreement represented meaningful, favorable compromises. Oh, and one official connected with the Clinic making a show of congratulating the city on its negotiation. I do not, off the top of my head, actually recall anyone else even making much of a case that any person or group on board with the January 2015 proposal to close Lakewood Hospital ever gave up or offered to give up something important. Again, do inform me of oversights.)

Otherwise, I think this is simply a large part of the community conversation for some time to come. I'm happy to accommodate other topics — I hope most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time — but I will invite some help in identifying what these may be.

mjkuhns wrote:

bentleymike wrote:Our community needs to heal after the whole hospital issue, not have a greater divide. This forum should be for ideas on how to IMPROVE the city

I'm really curious, what are some of the ideas/views/issues that people feel are neglected?

I am genuinely interested in learning what else is out there. Jim O'Bryan wrote a thoughtful post about opiods, recently. Besides that, I'm really in some doubt whether the conversations here keep coming back to complaints related to Lakewood Hospital and integrity at city hall because of partisan fixation… or because these issues' significance, relative to anything else going on in Lakewood, is actually proportionate to the amount of comment that they generate relative to anything else going on in Lakewood.

MJK

Mike, is spot on. It is one of the reasons we started this project. To conceive, VET and kick around topics. From this site some of the greatest Lakewood non-government groups exist. Also many others are dependent on us getting their information out to everyone.

We are seeing first hand the problem with single group think in secret.

At the same time we have hoped for more. I think I can safely we say, most of us are not looking for a Facebook type experience, or we would be on Facebook for that. This is much more contact, face off, let's get serious kind of place.

The Hospital, Sadly the Hospital Debacle, much like the West End Debacle brought the city to civil war. Pitting family against family, neighbor against neighbor. City Hall looking to shut up and shut down legal businesses. Probably keeping their enemy list as Nixon did.

The City has to heal, but everyone has to heal in their own way. Some of it will take time. They say there are residents that spent thousands simply because they spoke up against the hospital. Like the Civil War, some may never get over it. I do have to admit, supposed victors, crowing and trying to continue the war of aggression seems sick.

It is also sick how many of the same names caused the West End Civil War and The Hospital Debacle. Both done in secret, sprung on the public, then camoflauged as something the city wants, until the residents woke up and said, "Why the lies? Why the secrecy? Why the giving in to business over residents?"

My feeling, while we heal, let's have fun, let's work towards a more friendly Lakewood, and remember it is the holiday season, smile.

.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
The Hospital, Sadly the Hospital Debacle, much like the West End Debacle brought the city to civil war. Pitting family against family, neighbor against neighbor. City Hall looking to shut up and shut down legal businesses. Probably keeping their enemy list as Nixon did.

Even if the players may align, there is no comparison with the West End and the Hospital. Thread drift but this conflation really bothers me. The layers associated with the large-scale theft of a public asset and moving public monies into private hands puts it into a different class of government malfeasance. Not to mention the loss of revenue from the lease and income tax.

Kate McCarthy wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
The Hospital, Sadly the Hospital Debacle, much like the West End Debacle brought the city to civil war. Pitting family against family, neighbor against neighbor. City Hall looking to shut up and shut down legal businesses. Probably keeping their enemy list as Nixon did.

Even if the players may align, there is no comparison with the West End and the Hospital. Thread drift but this conflation really bothers me. The layers associated with the large-scale theft of a public asset and moving public monies into private hands puts it into a different class of government malfeasance. Not to mention the loss of revenue from the lease and income tax.

I understand this.

The West End was the city taking, without the owner's consent, private property for a private developer and development.

The hospital deal was the city handing over public property and assets to a private foundation and to make city land available for a private developer to make money.

It's sick, the way they think "development" is a magic bullet. It will cure all our ills!

All I see it doing is, yet again, creating a civil war in the city and making it unpleasant to live here.

mjkuhns wrote:

bentleymike wrote:Our community needs to heal after the whole hospital issue, not have a greater divide. This forum should be for ideas on how to IMPROVE the city

I'm really curious, what are some of the ideas/views/issues that people feel are neglected?

I am genuinely interested in learning what else is out there. Jim O'Bryan wrote a thoughtful post about opiods, recently. Besides that, I'm really in some doubt whether the conversations here keep coming back to complaints related to Lakewood Hospital and integrity at city hall because of partisan fixation… or because these issues' significance, relative to anything else going on in Lakewood, is actually proportionate to the amount of comment that they generate relative to anything else going on in Lakewood.

Otherwise, I think this is simply a large part of the community conversation for some time to come. I'm happy to accommodate other topics — I hope most of us can walk and chew gum at the same time — but I will invite some help in identifying what these may be.

For example, since there WILL be a healthcare foundation established, and also redevelopment on the property in some way, shape or form...discussing what the possibilities or ideas for how to fund the foundation and what the foundation should ultimately fund...

I have 2 ideas here, which I've shared with friends. #1 the foundation should make the contribution to the school district for the remaining funds necessary for the First Federal of Lakewood match to get the community rec area done on the back of the high school. That goes toward wellness education, right? #2, a portion of the property tax and income tax generated from the old hospital properties should go into the foundation. This will help keep the foundation funded without relying too heavily on soliciting donations.

This can be an idea think tank for council, the foundation planning task force, and ultimately the foundation board.