The Observation Deck

Kevin--- I am saying that there is no base from which to base legislation unless an objective sample is done which would be--- pull a truck off the route after a regular pick up, empty the contents, and analyze it.

From this base of data, you then make legislative recommendations

Has any such analysis been done?

Stan.

Kevin,
Thank you so much for coming on the deck and explaining things. I truly appreciate it.

i do have an additional question. I've heard that Lakewood isn't actually recycling the stuff we sort and put on our treelawns. I've heard that this stuff goes right into the same pile as the regular refuse.

can you enlighten me?

Just to be completely clear, regarding our terms in this discusssion.

I did not "raise the specter (spectre) of slavery", nor was I joking.

The discussion point that was raised concerned a question of involuntary servitude.

There is a precise distinction between the two;

although both are specifically excluded from citizen responsibilities, quite clearly by the 13th amendment to the Constitution, unless as punishment for a crime.

Whether I, or others, may believe this particular ordinance to be in violation of that amendment will be decided in the course of events.

Stan Austin wrote:Kevin--- I am saying that there is no base from which to base legislation unless an objective sample is done which would be--- pull a truck off the route after a regular pick up, empty the contents, and analyze it.

From this base of data, you then make legislative recommendations

Has any such analysis been done?

Stan, I disagree that this proposed "basis" for the legislation we drafted would be appropriate or necessary. Sorry. To me, this just doesn't make sense.

Diane Helbig wrote:I've heard that Lakewood isn't actually recycling the stuff we sort and put on our treelawns. I've heard that this stuff goes right into the same pile as the regular refuse.

can you enlighten me?

That's too bad that rumor is out there. I haven't heard that. We "sell" our recyclable materials to an outside company, most recently (to my knowledge) Royal Oak Processing. Unfortunately, the value of recyclable commodities has gone way down, so we don't make any money by doing this (contrary to what's been suggested), but we do save a considerable amount of money on landfill dumping fees.

Here's an interesting article on the subject, which mentions Lakewood: LINK.

Kevin,

I just have to say this. I really think that it needs saying.

Thanks for coming on 'Deck today. When I taught public school, I recall a number of moments when some issue seemed, at the time, to be challenging for those of us in the public sector.

At the same time, there is a great reward involved with making a difference in public service, as I'm sure you are aware.

I voiced my concerns regarding this issue, as any responsible citizen should do. At the same time, I know that you and others worked hard on this ordinance as well. Even though we might not presently be in complete accord, I continue to have great respect for your service, and that of others in our government.

Thanks for posting today. I want you to know that I personally and sincerely appreciate your time and effort in doing so.

Back to the banjo.

We recycle to a reasonable degree, but if the city is mandating this to save money, I think they may have missed the boat. I know their model is that the recyclables don't go into a landfill, but are sold to processors, netting a profit. But I have also read that the market for recyclables has dried up with our economy. LA is said to be awash in bales of cardboard, which the Chinese are not buying because they don't need to make boxes for the products they aren't selling. So while I keep recycling, I am wondering about the current economics, and whether, after we all go to the trouble of separating our trash, anything that can't be sold is stored, or put into a landfill? Of course, if the economy recovers, this would no longer be a problem.

I think you really have to strain to pass the idea that mandatory recycling is involuntary servitude. First I'm not convinced that there is a state or federal law mandating that the city handle our trash. We do it because our council wants it done. But they could just as easily tell us to do it ourselves with a law requiring that we keep no trash, but not mandating how we deal with it.

It follows that they could have the city pick up only certain items, such as non-recyclables, and fine anyone who sneaked a recyclable into his municipally collected trash. It would be up to the homeowner how he would separate the trash, and how he would dispose of the recyclables. Going a step further and picking up the recyclables would be a nice step, but I don't think they have to do it.

So what they are proposing is hardly involuntary servitude. It is a very reasonable way for the city to handle waste disposal.

If they really need money, perhaps they could go through our trash and turn in people who are shopping on the internet (and not paying taxes), or who have made home improvements without the necessary permits.

Will,

Your discussion on involuntary servitude and recycling makes interesting points, and provides a couple of different aspects to that discussion.

Rather than engaging with you on that topic, I find your point (and Kevin's) about the declining demand for recyclables to be quite salient indeed.

I saw a show about that not long ago, with all that stuff piled up sky-high somewhere...

Ironic would it not be...that just about the time Lakewood kicks a virtual World War II recycling campaign into full gear, that nobody wants to take the stuff, except maybe for peanuts.

What a world we live in....

Back to the banjo.

If council or anyone needs it, i will gladly give you my address so the fines can come in. I do not and cannot recycle newspaper. However, if the recycle people really want pee/poop filled paper, I will be happy to give it to them, but again, my newspaper is thrown away with the rest of the trash. With a note every week to my cushman driver how sorry i am for the smell and the waste.
I recycle everything else.

Hey, know what? I just realized Gary's right. Why, it's nothing better than slavery that I have to cart my old paint cans, car batteries and fluorescent tubes over to the refuse facility! I should be able to just throw those away in my regular trash as well. Thanks, Gary, for the insight. Free at last, free at last, thank Gawd almighty I'm free at last!!

How will this be handled for apartment buildings? For the many Lakewood doubles?

Leaving trash until somebody sorts through it? You are assuming that neighbors should live through this until someone is forced to change their ways?

Won't that attract more vermin?

Could this be a case of mismatched prioritys? Are there not bigger problems within the city? Sure it would be nice if everyone was recycling. That way when they get around to passing out brochures to fill empty store fronts the tag line can say "Come to Lakewood, We Recycle... or else..."

Missy, dl,

Poop? Vermin? Around here? My decorum efforts prevent making the joke that just came into my mind...

Brian:

Philosophically speaking:

What we do voluntarily, we do voluntarily.

What we are forced to do under governmental compulsion should always be critically examined, and when necessary, questioned.

Particularly in this particular case, it would seem; when nationwide recycling efforts seem to be coming up against this economic impasse, and unfortunately therefore, (at least for the time being) much of that junk could well end up in the same box anyway.

There will always be a societal argument for the greater good, but it must always be weighed in the balance against human liberties.

PoliSci 101

As an aside, here's a link to my older Lakewood Observer column :Green Thoughts and Brown Fields":

http://lakewoodobserver.com/read/3/20/t ... et-blew-up

Illustrating that column is my guitar, made from rescued and recycled pulpwood. Even though you might think that rescued and recycled wood might not work as well in a guitar, this instrument (unlike a few others I've owned) has not warped or cracked, and it sounds fantastic after years of service!

Recycling, like anything else we do in life, can be a good thing, if done right.

Hmmmm....Those 96 gallon dumpsters could recycle into fine trash can drums, but I digress.....

Back to the banjo.

Does the city even recycle?

Just curious.


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