Interesting Reading
Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:36 am
Chas Geiger getting the key to the city. by Ivor.
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The Observation Deck
Neighbors Celebrating Free Speech and Intellectual Diversity While Speaking Over The Digital Fence
https://deck.lakewoodobserver.com/
Schoolboard Appoointment?
Page 3 of 5
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 6:04 am
Chas Geiger getting the key to the city. by Ivor.
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Re: It's about Political Positioning...
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:56 am
Ryan,Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:All-
This type of thing is common in government. Let me define it:
Step 1) I am a politician who is finished/tired of/moving on from my current position.
Step 2) I think I know best who should replace me.
Step 3) I will get re-elected because I am popular, then I will resign and the rest of the guys, with whom I have considerable influence, will replace me with a candidate of my choice.
This is not isolated to our current situation in Lakewood and often occurs at the state and local level (it is disgustingly popular in the Ohio General Assembly).
This is where I really agree with DL, it subverts the political process. To re-elect someone and then have them turn around and give their seat away is unacceptable.
This is exactly what happened with our school board case. You couldn't say before the election that you didn't know that Estrop was leaving or that the financial state of the schools is becoming more precarious and that the final phase of the building project could be in jeopardy. So what changed for Chas?
Talk of this "political positioning" was rampant before the election. Word on the street back then was that Jay Foran would be the Geiger replacement and I would place money on that today. Jay is very skilled and brings much to the district, but the cloud of deceiving democracy does him and the board a disservice.
The talk on the street for the past couple of months is that Betsey Shaughnessy and Linda Beebe will be next. I don't blame them for calling it quits because they have been doing the job for so long; however, the cultural of the good 'ole boy network at the school board needs to stop.
Any honest individual who cares about the school district and our City should not bother with the appointment process because it will be a sham, much like the ones at city hall. What you should do is go to the Board of Elections in January and pull a petition to run for any of the three seats that will be on the November ballot. Let's shake things up.
Save your negativity and disdain for Lakewood politics for Lakewood politicians. I find your post to be the most ridiculous of anything I have ever read on this forum. You've questioned Chas Geiger's integrity, and I can tell you your above assertion is flat wrong.
Ryan, your a politician Mr. Geiger is not. He may hold elected office, but he does so for one reason and that's for the betterment of the community and that's it. You could learn a lot from him.
Mr. Geiger has earned the right to retire on his terms. These conpiracy theories you "heard on the street" are like your post, completely ridiculous.
Zak Wright
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:20 pm
Zak,
I disagree with your viewpoint, but I understand your need to defend Chas from perceived attack as you are in a relationship with someone in his family.
A definition of politician from Wikipedia:
A politician is an individual who is involved in influencing public decision making through the influence of politics or a person who influences the way a society is governed through an understanding of political power and group dynamics. This includes people who hold decision-making positions in government, and people who seek those positions, whether by means of election, coup d'état, appointment, electoral fraud, conquest, right of inheritance or other means.
This is consistent with other definitions and Chas certainly fits the description. He holds a decision-making position in government and has been influencing Lakewood voters for the good of the Lakewood Schools for years.
Now, you are certainly entitled to disagree with me on what you refer to as "conspiracy theories." Yet it appears that these theories or rumors are coming to fruition. I heard from several sources that Chas would resign his position during his term. Well, here we are and it just happened. So were the rumors "flatly wrong" as you say or were they dead on as I presumed. I guess we can never know. What I do know is that I have seen this type of appointment business before and witnessed it firsthand at City Hall. Rumors have been flying that Chas will not be the last to resign either.
The only other thing that I take issue with is the idea that you think I am questioning Chas' integrity or record. I think highly of Chas and appreciate the work that he has done for our City. It's a tough job and I am one of the few people on this Board who knows it firsthand.
As for me, yes, I am a politician. I advocate for issues that I believe in and for those that I know will benefit those in my community. Just as your dad and Chas did, I run for office with the best of intentions.
I disagree with your viewpoint, but I understand your need to defend Chas from perceived attack as you are in a relationship with someone in his family.
A definition of politician from Wikipedia:
A politician is an individual who is involved in influencing public decision making through the influence of politics or a person who influences the way a society is governed through an understanding of political power and group dynamics. This includes people who hold decision-making positions in government, and people who seek those positions, whether by means of election, coup d'état, appointment, electoral fraud, conquest, right of inheritance or other means.
This is consistent with other definitions and Chas certainly fits the description. He holds a decision-making position in government and has been influencing Lakewood voters for the good of the Lakewood Schools for years.
Now, you are certainly entitled to disagree with me on what you refer to as "conspiracy theories." Yet it appears that these theories or rumors are coming to fruition. I heard from several sources that Chas would resign his position during his term. Well, here we are and it just happened. So were the rumors "flatly wrong" as you say or were they dead on as I presumed. I guess we can never know. What I do know is that I have seen this type of appointment business before and witnessed it firsthand at City Hall. Rumors have been flying that Chas will not be the last to resign either.
The only other thing that I take issue with is the idea that you think I am questioning Chas' integrity or record. I think highly of Chas and appreciate the work that he has done for our City. It's a tough job and I am one of the few people on this Board who knows it firsthand.
As for me, yes, I am a politician. I advocate for issues that I believe in and for those that I know will benefit those in my community. Just as your dad and Chas did, I run for office with the best of intentions.
Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:24 pm
The World According to Wikipedia is like saying the World According to Cliff Notes.
Will we ever return to the The World of How My Family Raised Me? When does the mention of a man end in recognition of who he is and what his track record is versus suspicion and suggestion.
IMHO, this thread should be about which school we should name after Chas and his father, but instead we as a community would prefer to propagate rumors. Cast your stones as you see fit.
Will we ever return to the The World of How My Family Raised Me? When does the mention of a man end in recognition of who he is and what his track record is versus suspicion and suggestion.
IMHO, this thread should be about which school we should name after Chas and his father, but instead we as a community would prefer to propagate rumors. Cast your stones as you see fit.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:27 am
Did the rumors actually portend Chas' resignation, or were they just rumors separate from Chas' action? If Linda or Betsy had resigned, would you still be "dead on"?Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:I heard from several sources that Chas would resign his position during his term. Well, here we are and it just happened. So were the rumors "flatly wrong" as you say or were they dead on as I presumed.
When I hear rumors about you, should I presume they are "dead on"?
How do you "know"?Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:I advocate for issues that I believe in and for those that I know will benefit those in my community.
Yes.Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:...I presumed.
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 6:34 am
First this thread has some real potential for mutual assured destruction. As I look down the names it is like India and Pakistan discussing something with Israel and Palestine offing suggestions on talking points.Jay Foran wrote:Will we ever return to the The World of How My Family Raised Me? When does the mention of a man end in recognition of who he is and what his track record is versus suspicion and suggestion.
That said...
Jay/Zak/Others
It would seem that you feel these conspiracy actions, if true, are very bad and do pervert the entire election process. Otherwise there would be no need to "defend" a person that it would seem by all post on the deck has given the schools and the city 22 years of fabulous service.
If what you are saying is correct, and have no reasons to doubt, as it would seem that at least Jay and Zak have closer relationships than most with Mr. Geiger. That he is incapable of such clandestine actions. As such, we should drop this and move on to other discussions.
Is that a correct assessment of where we stand on this?
OK, how about Grant.Jay Foran wrote: IMHO, this thread should be about which school we should name after Chas and his father, but instead we as a community would prefer to propagate rumors. Cast your stones as you see fit.
Can be seen from the store.
Just kidding, lighten up everyone.
Jay, I do see that as a perfect new thread for you to start. It would seem that this thread has drifted enough already, and why tie that to this discussion.
Others that use this forum to vet ideas are Lakewood Schools and School Board, the Lakewood Public Library, Lakewood City Hall, and those that work for them. Lakewood is Art, LakewoodAlive/Mainstreet, Madison Avenue Merchants Association, Bike Lakewood, Kiwanis, Lakewood Hospital, PTA, Parents For Lakewood Students, Lakewood Democratice Club, Lakewood Christian Service Center, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Lakewood Historical Society, Beck Center, Trintity Lutheran Church, Cleveland State, Tri-C, Chamber of Commerce, LEAF Community, Detroit Avenue Development Association, Lakewood Police, Council, to name a few.
A great place to vet ideas, build support, and end rumors.
FWIW
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:40 am
Jay--
If it its your fancy, let me name Ball and Dagger, to well-respected authors in the world of political science who give virtually the same definition of a politician. Wikipedia happened to be more accessible than my personal library at the time. I would bet that Magruder also follows a similar definition.
Steve--
The rumor was specific to Chas. The latest rumor is specific to Betsy with only speculation on Linda. I have not heard resignation thoughts from Linda herself or anyone I would consider close to her, hence the term speculation.
You are right, you can't believe every rumor you hear; however, you can judge the credibility of them based on the source. For instance, if someone like Ryan Salo, Colleen Wing, or one of my family members said (for example), that I was thinking of becoming a Democrat, and then became one, would that rumor have credibility? I would say yes. The sources are close to me and the rumor resulted in reality.
If it its your fancy, let me name Ball and Dagger, to well-respected authors in the world of political science who give virtually the same definition of a politician. Wikipedia happened to be more accessible than my personal library at the time. I would bet that Magruder also follows a similar definition.
Steve--
The rumor was specific to Chas. The latest rumor is specific to Betsy with only speculation on Linda. I have not heard resignation thoughts from Linda herself or anyone I would consider close to her, hence the term speculation.
You are right, you can't believe every rumor you hear; however, you can judge the credibility of them based on the source. For instance, if someone like Ryan Salo, Colleen Wing, or one of my family members said (for example), that I was thinking of becoming a Democrat, and then became one, would that rumor have credibility? I would say yes. The sources are close to me and the rumor resulted in reality.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:42 am
Jim,
Where is that darn EDIT button?
Where is that darn EDIT button?
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 7:44 am
RyanRyan Patrick Demro wrote:Jim,
Where is that darn EDIT button?
Please excuse our dust. During the redesign the edit button has been
pulled so that DBases match up during the transition.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:41 am
Not to get off topic but House Talk, Chef Geoff, Pet Talk all have edit buttons. Some can even delete their posts. Are these forums part of the redesign?Jim O'Bryan wrote:RyanRyan Patrick Demro wrote:Jim,
Where is that darn EDIT button?
Please excuse our dust. During the redesign the edit button has been
pulled so that DBases match up during the transition.
Sorry for any inconvenience.
.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 8:48 am
No, thanks for the heads up, might be one of the problems!Charlie Page wrote:Not to get off topic but House Talk, Chef Geoff, Pet Talk all have edit buttons. Some can even delete their posts. Are these forums part of the redesign?
As I have mentioned in the past, our software, and the forum software have all been moving along as we have worked on our stuff, and all of the new papers. As such, the LO has lagged behind a little.
We first have to bring up the LO to the new software standard, so that all updates can happen automatically across all platforms. The front end, is
pretty easy, all we have to do is teel writers not to submit on these dates.
The forum is much, much tougher, as we have to keep the DBases straight, as we slowly transfer them to the new platform.
Hang in there.
.
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 10:42 am
Ryan,Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:Zak,
I disagree with your viewpoint, but I understand your need to defend Chas from perceived attack as you are in a relationship with someone in his family.
A definition of politician from Wikipedia:
A politician is an individual who is involved in influencing public decision making through the influence of politics or a person who influences the way a society is governed through an understanding of political power and group dynamics. This includes people who hold decision-making positions in government, and people who seek those positions, whether by means of election, coup d'état, appointment, electoral fraud, conquest, right of inheritance or other means.
This is consistent with other definitions and Chas certainly fits the description. He holds a decision-making position in government and has been influencing Lakewood voters for the good of the Lakewood Schools for years.
Now, you are certainly entitled to disagree with me on what you refer to as "conspiracy theories." Yet it appears that these theories or rumors are coming to fruition. I heard from several sources that Chas would resign his position during his term. Well, here we are and it just happened. So were the rumors "flatly wrong" as you say or were they dead on as I presumed. I guess we can never know. What I do know is that I have seen this type of appointment business before and witnessed it firsthand at City Hall. Rumors have been flying that Chas will not be the last to resign either.
The only other thing that I take issue with is the idea that you think I am questioning Chas' integrity or record. I think highly of Chas and appreciate the work that he has done for our City. It's a tough job and I am one of the few people on this Board who knows it firsthand.
As for me, yes, I am a politician. I advocate for issues that I believe in and for those that I know will benefit those in my community. Just as your dad and Chas did, I run for office with the best of intentions.
Let me clear some things up for you. My post obviously wasn't clear to you.
In your initial post you laid out two theories specifically relating to Mr. Geiger's retirement.
1) You suggested that Mr. Geiger followed a three step process that is "common in government."
2) You stated that "talk of "political positioning" was rampant before the election. Word on the street back then was that Jay Foran would be the Geiger replacement and I would place money on that today."
Ryan, which one of these is fact? Which one of these has come to fruition? Which one was "dead on" as you suggest?
Second, I would say that the 3 step process you suggested Mr. Geiger followed isn't very becoming of any politician. Mr. Geiger didn't follow it, and by suggesting he did questions his integrity.
Third, the wikipedia definition of "politcian" wasn't necessary. Since, I was responding to your post directly, I thought you would understand that I was referring to "politicians" who are "finished/tired of/moving on from [their] current position" and follow a common three step process of retiring. Mr. Geiger does not fall into this category of politician as you describe. And, by suggesting as much again, you questioned is integrity.
You can take issue with me all you want, but you have questioned Mr. Geiger's integrity.
As for you saying "I think highly of Chas," I'm not so sure. Sharing rumors that aren't true wouldn't suggest as much.
Finally, and most importantly i do not appreciate any reference to my father in any of your posts. I don't know what your intentions are with regard to running for office, but you're not in the company of my father.
f
Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2008 12:50 pm
One of my hobbies is bashing politicians. If I thought there was something to these school board conspiracy theories I would jump right in. (Conspiracy theories are another favorite hobby.) But maybe not.
In the absence of evidence to the contrary it is best simply to take Chas Geiger at his word. He spent 20 plus years serving the people of this town with very little reward. He deserves our thanks, our respect and our best wishes. We have been blessed with some real first class leadership in this town and we should be cautious in our opposition.
The important issue here is who will replace him. The school system will be facing a perfect storm and will need a clear thinking, risk taking, bureaucracy challenging candiate. Our efforts would be better spent desiging the perfect candidate and measuring perfection against the chosen replacement.
The choice will tell us a great deal.
In the absence of evidence to the contrary it is best simply to take Chas Geiger at his word. He spent 20 plus years serving the people of this town with very little reward. He deserves our thanks, our respect and our best wishes. We have been blessed with some real first class leadership in this town and we should be cautious in our opposition.
The important issue here is who will replace him. The school system will be facing a perfect storm and will need a clear thinking, risk taking, bureaucracy challenging candiate. Our efforts would be better spent desiging the perfect candidate and measuring perfection against the chosen replacement.
The choice will tell us a great deal.
Re: f
Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2008 7:05 am
It seems there is more here than meets the eye. I finally say something nice about a politician and I get it wrong. I might be back with more assuming anyone is willing to provide hard copies.Bill Call wrote:In the absence of evidence to the contrary it is best simply to take Chas Geiger at his word.