The Observation Deck

It isn't just Lakewood's ER it is our entire medical system in general. I just had gall bladder surgery at Marymont Hospital. We have Kaiser. I got there at 7:00 am did a bunch of paper work. They took me in around 9:00 for laproscopic surgery. I woke around 11:30. My throat was sore and could hardly talk. They gave me some ice chips and soem apple juice. I asked if I could sleep and they said no, here are your clothes and there is the restroom, you have to get changed. So I did. They wheeled me out and I was home around 12:30 and that is with getting the prescriptions filled.

The bill for the hospital stay, not the doctors, came to over $21,000. I was flabbergasted. Luckily for me, Kaiser paid for it and they renegotiated a better deal, but they won't renegotiate with individuals. Maybe there could have been a payment plan where I would be paying for years for this.

This was a half a day. Health care in the US is broken. No wonder the average monthly cost for a family for health care is over 1200. a month. No wonder companies are moving to Canada or elsewhere where they don't have this cost.

So I guess my point is don't blame Lakewood - blame the entire system.

So I guess my point is don't blame Lakewood - blame the entire system.

Lynn, I do not think I have giving you a ::bingo:: yet!!

[quote="Lynn Farris"]The bill for the hospital stay, not the doctors, came to over $21,000. I was flabbergasted. Luckily for me, Kaiser paid for it and they renegotiated a better deal, but they won't renegotiate with individuals. Maybe there could have been a payment plan where I would be paying for years for this./quote]

The system is broken because there is no free market in medicine. The government sets the price for 40% of the customers who are covered under medicare and medicade, a price which is below the actual cost of production. The government also demands that 20% of customers be treated for free.

My guess is that the allowed amount is $9,000 which is what will ultimately be paid by the insurance company. If you choose not to have insurance you would have to pay the entire $21,000. If you don't pay it the hospital calls it a 'public service" that "costs" the hospital $21,000.

In the Obamanation it will only get worse.

My beef with Lakewood Hospital is that the Clinic:

1. Is receiving a $20 million dollar per year rental subsidy.
2. Is not passing on those savings to Lakewood residents.
3. Is transfering paying customers to Clinic owned facilities.
4. Is transfering non-paying customers to Lakewood Hospital.
5. Is investing $500 million in Clinic owned facilities while doing very little for Lakewood Hospital.
6. Is going to build a new hospital in Avon that will drain even more paying customers from Lakewood Hospital.
7. Is going to finance that construction using their $20 million dollar rental subsidy provided by Lakewood Hospital.
8. Will eventually leave behind an outdated, understaffed hospital that primarily serves non-paying customers.

One nurse that who worked at Lakewood Hospital told me she asked for a transfer because she could no longer put up with the understaffing and lack of support.

When 25 people are standing in line at the bank it's not the fault of the one teller on duty, it's the fault of management. Same with hosptials.

The Hospital lease requires that money generated by the hospital remain at the hospital. While that sounds nice it means nothing.

Bill Call wrote: One nurse that who worked at Lakewood Hospital told me she asked for a transfer because she could no longer put up with the understaffing and lack of support.

Bill



I will answer the rest later, but the amount of people you know with "facts" that are not willing to stand behind their comments is truly impressive.

How lucky you are to know so many with similar views.

If only they had the same fortitude as you we could really move this discussion along. After all, this is the forum that says, "put your name on it and own it."

Actually maybe Mary Anne Crampton will answer, it was her group that hosted the event that answered 2/3rds of the questions/statements above.

FWIW


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Jim,

You mean the event that Bill didn't attend. The one where he could have asked all these questions directly to the people in charge.

You mean that event?

I guess it's easier just to lob complaints and criticism over the digital fence.

Ed

Hey I can show you paid statements that show that Medicare pays less. They have a set cost that they will pay. Period.

I can show it to you.

Bill - Do you and your wife want to have lunch or dinner and you can look at my hospital bills?

I have them in a folder, by date.

Good heavens, I'm doin an Eisel.

I forgot to say I also have the Medicare payment statements that show the normal charge and what Medicare pays.

Also, Medicaid negotiates with drug companies on prescription costs and gets a much lower rate. I have a printout from DrugMart of all my prescription real costs and Medicaid price, printed out courtesy of DrugMart.

I received Medicaid at the beginning of my mobility crisis, when I was in a wheelchair and waiting over two years formy Social Security Disability.

Ed Dickson wrote:I guess it's easier just to lob complaints and criticism over the digital fence.

Ed

Ed

The one that was in the paper and online here.

Yes that one.

The one where Bill not only could have asked questions all night long, but also have heard the answer to his questions like, term of the lease, what is expected, what happens to all funds from Lakewood Hospital, how both Jack and Fred grew upo and owe much of their career at the Clinic to Lakewood Hospital. How the hospital offered to pay $1 mill a year instead of the $25.00 they were being charged, about the $6 mill they put back into Lakewood, and yes, even the various prices of bills.

This was different from the meeting with Fred, Jack and their accounting department Bill had me set up two years ago. At that meeting they were hoping Bill would go through their books.

Bill

A question, shouldn't people get discounts for bulk buying?

If I get one air conditioning unit from Donnelly, just to pull a place out of the air, can I ask for a discount? If I buy 20 units, could I expect a discount? If I buy $2 million worth of air conditioners, can I demand a better discount?

If Donnelly write off a unit that was not paid, what unit price should he write it off at? What about theft?

.

Bill you said:

My guess is that the allowed amount is $9,000 which is what will ultimately be paid by the insurance company. If you choose not to have insurance you would have to pay the entire $21,000. If you don't pay it the hospital calls it a 'public service" that "costs" the hospital $21,000.

In the Obamanation it will only get worse.

I don't remember the actual numbers, but I think you are in the right ballpark. It was considerably less what Kaiser negotiated. And they do a lot of their surgeries at Marymount.

Where I disagree with you is that we would be worse.

1) We are paying according to you own words for people without insurance now. We are paying these outrageously high hospital stays for a half a day and we are paying in the form of outrageously high insurance premiums. These are taxes that we are paying whether we choose to acknowledge it or not.

2) We are treating people when it is most expensive. I was listening last night to Fox or CBS, don't remember. They were interviewing 3 people who have put off health care due to the cost. One was a woman that had had a strep throat. She had indicated that the cost to see the dr. was approximately $300. and the prescription would have been about $50. She couldn't afford it so she didn't go. Strep throat is relatively simple to treat. But let go it can become Rhematic fever or heart disease. Why not treat people when it is low cost and simple instead of waiting until they come in really sick in the emergency room?

3) So Obama is proposing helping to make insurance more affordable and allowing us to buy into the same plan the he and McCain have where we can not be refused for pre-existing conditions. That is another huge problem that many people that want insurance can't buy it - or they think they have insurance - but they won't be covered when they need it.

So while I like the single payer plan I can't see where Obama's plan makes us worse off. Almost anything that we can do will improve the program we have.

JMHO

I didn't see the Edit option.

But while I'm on my rant.

The number 1 cause of bankruptcies in this country is medical bills. Bankruptcy is a negative for everyone. People shouldn't have to go bankrupt to get health care for themselves or their child. This is a lose lose proposition. Most people would buy insurance if they could afford it. But the costs have skyrocketed.

People shouldn't have to quit their jobs to go on welfare so they are covered under medicaid.

Companies shouldn't be moving to Canada to save money because it is so much cheaper when they don't have to pay health care costs for their employees.

You can tell me there are other problems like malpractice insurance skyrocketing and I believe you.

What I don't agree is that what we are doing in health care now works.

Lynn Farris wrote:
3) So Obama is proposing helping to make insurance more affordable and allowing us to buy into the same plan the he and McCain have where we can not be refused for pre-existing conditions. That is another huge problem that many people that want insurance can't buy it - or they think they have insurance - but they won't be covered when they need it.

Hey Bill

Lynn's number 3 was discussed at length as well. A person in the audience, asked which health care plan was better for the hospital. Fred DeGrandis said that as a non-profit they could not take sides.

However the guy with the numbers took a stab that indicated in the end, both plans would have about the same impact on the hospital.

FWIW


.

Bill you also said:

The system is broken because there is no free market in medicine. The government sets the price for 40% of the customers who are covered under medicare and medicade, a price which is below the actual cost of production. The government also demands that 20% of customers be treated for free.

I normally agree with you that allowing the free market to work in the long run often works. I was for Ron Paul and basically that is what he said. Open up the medical schools and let more of our well qualified students become doctors. Allow supply to equal demand etc. The price will come down and the few that aren't covered will be handled as charity cases as they were before.

But lets look at our current financial situation - a situation with deregulation. Yes, if we didn't step in and bail out the banks, eventually there would be a correction - the free market would work. but lots of people will get hurt in the process. The politicians won't allow that.

But you and I know we won't allow the free market to really work. The politicians love to meddle and they don't have a good track record of doing it too well anywhere - either the Democrats or the Republicans.

Plus one really has to ask oneself the moral question is health care a privilege or a right? Is it in our nations best interest to have a healthy citizenry? Seems to me that is as important as having an educated citizenry.

But what we have now is a screwed up system. I really liked Dennis' single payer concept. Go all the way - it works and get the insurance profit out of the system. But the politicians won't go against the lobbiest in the insurance industry. So they are going to meddle. Seems to me Obama's concept of allowing us to buy into the same system that he and McCain have which does not discriminate against pre-existing conditions is about as good as it is going to get. McCain concept of taxing benefits and giving us a $5,000 check a year to purchase insurance that will cost the average family more than 12,000 a year is absurd. What it will do is easily allow businesses to stop paying for any health care since you are getting a check for it. That will spell disaster I think for our country.

JMHO.

Lynn Farris wrote: Seems to me Obama's concept of allowing us to buy into the same system that he and McCain have which does not discriminate against pre-existing conditions is about as good as it is going to get.

It sounds like the most viable option out there and it would be fine by me.

LakewoodAlive's Hospital Forum is airing daily at 11am, 3pm or 10pm on the Lakewood Schools Community Channel 74.

The first 10 minutes involve remarks about the LCPI/LakewoodAlive merger, the next 5 are devoted to a video about the history of the hospital with some great images from Lakewood Historical Society.

Bill Ryan, from The Center for Health Affairs starts his remarks about 20 minutes after the hour, followed by Fred DeGrandis' explanation of the lease agreement, followed by remarks by the Mayor, and then a presentation by Jack Gustin with Lakewood-specific economic impact data. The forum wraps up with Q&A from the audience.

DVDs will soon be available at the library.

The PowerPoints are posted on our website, but you will miss a lot without the commentary. http://lakewoodalive.com/ Scroll to the bottom of our home page.

The presentations made at the forum were among the most thought-provoking and informative we have seen in the history of our programming.

I hope Observers will all take a look/listen. Lakewood Hospital's role in our economic future makes it important for every resident to understand its relationship with the City.