The Observation Deck

We cannot hope to compete with Chicago, Orlando, San Diego, Vegas, Atlanta, Anaheim, or any other tier one convention city. We shouldn't aim that high. On the other hand, many shows can't afford a tier one site, or try to avoid a place that's too touristy, because it takes people off the show floor and out of general sessions.

The tradeshows I am talking about fill the hotels generally Monday-Thursday. We do not get anywhere near our share of these, in my opinion. Between the National Hardware Show and the 40 booth hotel event are a vast array of tradeshows we can potentially attract. Every industry you can imagine has at least an annual event. We can't legitimately compete for any of them.

The importance of a decent meeting facility should be neither overstated nor understated. I am generally in the minority when I talk about this with friends, but I think it's worth going the extra mile for.

I am completely on the same page as Paul and I know exactly the type of meetings hes talking about. Hes right. We wont get the International Fashion Expo, but we might get the Ohio Dental Associaiton. Theres nothing wrong with that
But we need some data here. What arent we getting? Whats the potential? What are we REALLY losing to Columbus, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh? Have the expensive publicly funded CCs in other cities (Pittsburgh in particular) been a good investment? What do we need to spend in taxes to get a conventioneer into town for 3 days?
Im admittedly a skeptic but Im not unconvincable. So far no one has sold me,

Bryan

The sports part does not bother me all that much, though a closed or moveable roof stadium would have made more sense.

I would have put more into the waterfront and into the many local CDCs for neighborhood development.

SAFE/CLEAN


.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Bryan

The sports part does not bother me all that much, though a closed or moveable roof stadium would have made more sense.

I would have put more into the waterfront and into the many local CDCs for neighborhood development.

SAFE/CLEAN


.

Good ideas. I agree a moveable dome would have been better. I would have loved to see money spent to truly improve public transportation...actually a true subway system would have been great. But I don't think $1 billion would have been enough for that.

Bryan Schwegler wrote: If you had that $1 Billion, what would you soecifically spend it on to save Cleveland?

Again I ask the question, if Cleveland didn't have those things, what would it be like?

The real cost is closer to $3 billion, including interest


Option 1: Don't spend it. Keep taxes a little lower and do without football, basketball and let the current convention center wither away.

Those entertainment dollars would have been spent on something else, home improvement, other entertainment or a new car here and there. Some of it would have been spent in other cities but most of it would have been spent here.

One thing to keep in mind is that much of that $3 billion is interest payments that are sent out of town. How many $5 dollar hot dogs sold to out of towners do you need to sell to earn $2 billion in interest payments sent to New York City?

Option 2: Spend it on something else.

Take the $400 million the County will spend on the convention center and the $350 million it intends to spend on the new County Administration building. Lakewoods share of that (based on population) would be $25 million. All at once. Next year.

What would you build in this town next year for $25 million? If you gave it to a developer on the condition he put up another $50 million what could be built?

I wouldn't recommend giving it to the City only because all it would mean is that everyone gets a raise and a few more weeks vacation and then what do you know we ain't got no money.

I vaguely remember a term "opportunity cost" which I think meant the cost of doing one thing rather than another. What is the opportunity cost of a convention center?

Jim O'Bryan wrote:The sports part does not bother me all that much, though a closed or moveable roof stadium would have made more sense.

And cost a lot more. Summers are lovely around here, who wants to watch baseball in a dome?

Bill, why do you hate sports? Quality of life amenities are important too, not just statistics and dollars and cents.

Brad Hutchison wrote:Summers are lovely around here, who wants to watch baseball in a dome?

Brad


I think we were talking of the Browns Stadium, with a sliding roof.

What we paid for, should be used much more than 8 days a year.

Yeah Bill, why do you hate sports?

The fact that we have 3 major league teams, really sets us apart from the rest.

.

Check out the columbus convention center site, events, calendar:

http://www.columbusconventions.com

A number of these are the kinds of events we could get here, in my view.

The argument for or against the financing of a new convention center aside, we must all remember that there are numerous efforts underway that attract, retain and grow businesses in Cuyahoga County and NE Ohio. Nobody is promoting anything as a silver bullet that will cure Cleveland, the county and region. There are a lot of moving pieces

Here is a link to the list of NE Ohio’s fastest growing companies in 2007. Most of these companies benefited from development grants and loans at their inception/incubation.
http://www.weatherhead100.org/currentra ... rs2007.asp

Here is a link to an article in today’s PD regarding the efforts of Team NEO.
Slightly Smaller Link

This Crain’s Cleveland Business list shows the top 69 conventions/events that took place in Cleveland, the county and NE Ohio in 2007. These 69 events totaled 148.392 visitors, an estimated economic impact of $172,409,455 and 80,569 estimated room nights.
Slightly Smaller Link

Folks might read this Crain’s list and say that we’re doing fine without a new convention center. However, the folks who do this for a living are saying that we cannot accommodate dozens of additional events.

I personally find it deflating that folks on this deck continuously rave about living here and close to Cleveland listing numerous attributes but yet steadily balk at the notion that out of towners would actually choose to visit Cleveland. We love it but don’t think we can market it in a way that attracts others. Sheesh.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I think we were talking of the Browns Stadium, with a sliding roof.

What we paid for, should be used much more than 8 days a year.

You're right, Jim, which goes back to my earlier comments about no waterfront development. Cleveland Browns Stadium is a beautiful facility, and, IMO, rightly does not have a roof, but it should have been built elsewhere. Something (restaurants, shops, concert venue, whatever) could have gone in there next to the Science Center and Rock Hall to really make that area a destination.


David, I'm probably one of the folks on this thread that's deflating you. I don't mean to be, I love Cleveland. It just seems to me (and I'm no expert) that we make odd choices from time to time in our planning.

7 of the 69 conventions were held at the Convention Center.

David Anderson wrote: I personally find it deflating that folks on this deck continuously rave about living here and close to Cleveland listing numerous attributes but yet steadily balk at the notion that out of towners would actually choose to visit Cleveland. We love it but don’t think we can market it in a way that attracts others. Sheesh.

I dont think it is so much that we dont believe Cleveland is worth visiting. Its more that tourism is supposed to be a revenue source for a region, not an expense. What are we gaining if we spend $1 billion to get $200 million in hotel and restaurant expenses?
Cities like Orlando or Las Vegas make relatively small public investments and get returns in multiples of 10. Cleveland and Cuyahoga County have to spend $2 to get every $1 back. At this point, wed be better off just writing checks to the citizens and give them the money to spend anywhere they wanted.

These people felt Cleveland/Lakewood was worthwhile to visit. They drove all the way from Des Moines just to visit Lakewood and Cleveland.




p.s. shouldn't this be a global conversation?

David Anderson wrote:The argument for or against the financing of a new convention center aside, we must all remember that there are numerous efforts underway that attract, retain and grow businesses in Cuyahoga County and NE Ohio. Nobody is promoting anything as a silver bullet that will cure Cleveland, the county and region. There are a lot of moving pieces .

The County IS promoting the convention center as a silver bullet. Convention centers are not a cost effective way to maintain a community's prospertity.

David Anderson wrote: Here is a link to the list of NE Ohio’s fastest growing companies in 2007. Most of these companies benefited from development grants and loans at their inception/incubation.

Low interest loans make a lot of sense. Spending $800 million on a new convention center makes no sense.

By the way, two or three years ago the county was talking about a new convention center. At that time Forest City promised to develope the several hundred acres they own across the river if the County put the convention center at Tower City. Any chance of that development happening if the convention center is behind Tower City?

David Anderson wrote: This Crain’s Cleveland Business list shows the top 69 conventions/events that took place in Cleveland, the county and NE Ohio in 2007. These 69 events totaled 148.392 visitors, an estimated economic impact of $172,409,455 and 80,569 estimated room nights.

I am a little suspicious of the numbers. 80,000 people using a hotel room for one night generated $172 million in revenue? That's more than $2,000 per night per person.

The 68,000 who live here and didn't stay in a hotel spent some money at the convention that would have been spent where they live in Parma or Lakewood. Where's the benefit there?

People keep telling us that museums and stadiums are important to the big companies that bring in the good paying jobs. OK. Thirty years ago Cleveland was home to 40(?) fortune five hundred companies. Why did they leave? And, since we are still the home of museums and stadiums why aren't they coming back? And where are the new companies? And where is the CEO with the courage to say: There are better places to do business and make money than Cleveland but the most important thing to me is my lodge at the Browns Stadium.

) Okay. And that is why they have selected MMPI who is a leader in this type of business. While I wondered why they would use this particular vendor, I looked for the reason while so many just kept griping about it. Frankly, we've seen locally why government entities shouldn't run business operations and having the tasks of attracting tenants and medical conventions be turned over to a private company seems a better option than expecting the county to learn on the fly.

Shawn, InvaCare is like GMC. They are the kind of participant that MMPI and Cleveland must have if the Medical Mart is to have any chance at all. They've said, so far, that they aren't interested.