The Observation Deck

Equating the Boston Tea-Party with the rise in the County sales tax is disingenous.

Our representatives (elected County Commisioners) made a decision on taxing issues which is thier legal right, a totally different situation to the Boston Tea Party.

For 8 hours, it would have preferable, IMO, to be able to enjoy the Art Festival and the outstanding exhibits, without political campaigning.

Kenneth Warren wrote:Ms. Martinez:

Feel free to disagree.

Is the temporary cessation of all the elements that could be considered public forum (park, street, sidewalk) by the City of Lakewood to Arts Festival Board what you have in mind?

If City Hall and the Law Department believe such restriction can be legally made for limiting expressive activity of petitioners on sidewalks during the Arts Festival, then let them attempt to do so.

I simply see such restriction fraught with potential liability over the constitutionality of the action.

From your post, I take it you do not.

With any luck, someone from City Hall or the ACLU will come to the LO Deck and shed more light.

to answer your first question in a word, yes
To my mind, I think there can be some reasonable restrictions on speech, even on public property. For example, if I take a bullhorn tonight to Lakewood Park, camp in front of the stage, and speaking out against abortion, would that be allowed? Or would I be moved off to the side, away from the music?

It seems that if a non-profit group agrees with the city to block off certain streets to traffic for one day, then enters into contracts with businesses to rent space on those streets during that day, the normal regulations regarding free speech might be limited. There are all kind of exceptions to the use of public property for free speech, from when you can speak at council meetings to where you can pass out flyers on library property.

With all the arts festivals around Im sure this has come up somewhere. Im with you, Id like to hear an expert opinion.

Lynn Farris wrote:I do admire Ryan taking on this Herculean effort and I do think that the principal for which he is fighting is extremely constitutional - taxation without representation - isn't that what the Boston Tea Party was about?

Now, THAT'S funny!

I'm with Richard Cole on this one.

Dee Martinez wrote: To my mind, I think there can be some reasonable restrictions on speech, even on public property

Do you mean hillbillies or white trash wearing "Git R Done" T-shirts?

Stephen Eisel wrote:

Dee Martinez wrote: To my mind, I think there can be some reasonable restrictions on speech, even on public property

Do you mean hillbillies or white trash wearing "Git R Done" T-shirts?

Free speech applies to everyone, even if your political philosopher is Larry the Cable Guy. Just not on eight blocks of Detroit Avenue for eight hours one day out of the year.
By the way, is the tshirt your giving me for Christmas NEW or are you re-gifting something YOU got.

Dee Martinez wrote:

Stephen Eisel wrote:

Dee Martinez wrote: To my mind, I think there can be some reasonable restrictions on speech, even on public property

Do you mean hillbillies or white trash wearing "Git R Done" T-shirts?

Free speech applies to everyone, even if your political philosopher is Larry the Cable Guy. Just not on eight blocks of Detroit Avenue for eight hours one day out of the year.
By the way, is the tshirt your giving me for Christmas NEW or are you re-gifting something YOU got.

It will depend upon, if you have been naughty or nice

Dee Martinez wrote:Free speech applies to everyone, even if your political philosopher is Larry the Cable Guy. Just not on eight blocks of Detroit Avenue for eight hours one day out of the year.

What if you can't separate the politics from the art?

dl meckes wrote:

Dee Martinez wrote:Free speech applies to everyone, even if your political philosopher is Larry the Cable Guy. Just not on eight blocks of Detroit Avenue for eight hours one day out of the year.

What if you can't separate the politics from the art?

Then you are in trouble

How about belt buckles? Could I sell "Git R Done" belt buckles with a big SiLver Dollar on them? Now that is art!

I understand Mr. Davis's and Mr. Cole's point but I would offer this,

1,000 screaming Buckeye Fans- Love It!

1 Michigan Fan- Annoys me to no end.

Ryan Demro could hand some people a $100 bill and they wouldn't take it and would be annoyed.

I was stopped by people to sign, I didn't ask anyone. I had a kiosk in my front yard-had signs up. Didn't say a word, people stopped on their own accord. I am a soft campaigner in general, it works for me but it isn't as effective at getting signature. Others collected more than I did.

The unfortunate fact is that most people don't even know that their tax is going to be increased.

There was A LOT of open campaigning going on last year. Most people didn't care because they agreed with the candidates/issues. I have been verbally assaulted at every event I have ever participate in in Lakewood. Some people have a different definition of tolerance and an open society, and what is annoying. It just comes with the territory.

Being in the minority has never been a deterrent for me, if I am fighting for something I believe in. It is amazing how much positive change can happen when only a few are willing to speak out loud for the whispers of many.

I am enjoying this conversation very much because we are raising interesting questions about voluntary (internally determined) and involuntary limitations (externally determined) in community, and the consequences, if any, for divergence by politically motivated actors from expected behavior.

Behind the choices, then, are the virtues and vices experienced in oneself and observed in others.

Perhaps the majority of people at an Arts Festival seek temperance from politically-motivated actors. Yet a minority might seek courage from politically-motivated actors. These politically-motivated actors hazard observations of “bad tasteâ€Â￾ for the wider bandwidth of a political cause and community traction for values they believe in.

Again, I can understand annoyance. Expressing annoyance may help compel politically-motivated actors into voluntary limitations. But I would not want to press or pressure politically-motivated actors too hard, because I respect their rights and protections under the constitution.

Virtues help us endure the conditions of political life.

The LO is all about documenting the good deed. In looking at the Arts Festival snaps from the LO photographers, then, I see the virtue of temperance in Mayor George selling Kiwanis hotdogs and I see courage in Councilman Demro seeking signatures for a petition.

Kenneth Warren

Political Rhetoric as Art.

May I suggest, only partly tongue in cheek, that the LO next year sponsor a "Art of Political Rhetoric" booth.

Anyone can talk, for 15-30 minutes, without amplification, on any topic they choose.

All campaigns, causes, etc would agree not to engage the public attending the Art Festival, in return for an uninterupted 15-30 minutes of fame.

LO T for the winner -

Richard Cole wrote:Political Rhetoric as Art.

May I suggest, only partly tongue in cheek, that the LO next year sponsor a "Art of Political Rhetoric" booth.

Anyone can talk, for 15-30 minutes, without amplification, on any topic they choose.

All campaigns, causes, etc would agree not to engage the public attending the Art Festival, in return for an uninterupted 15-30 minutes of fame.

LO T for the winner -

we are trying to fight global warming

Just a couple of little reminders people.

The dems table last year - had tons of campaign literature on it, not a one for Ed Fitzgerald.

Jim - If you remember, we also had copies of the Lakewood Observer that you asked to put there and it was not a problem.

The republican booth had a big Demro sign - so it wasn't just face painting.

If we must bash people, let us all bash correctly.

Now play nice all.

so it wasn't just face painting.

Actually we were making bookmarks.