Sun Post Endorses Issue 11, VOTE YES

Gary Rice · Post by **Gary Rice** » Sat May 05, 2007 4:34 pm

To Ryan Patrick Demro, Tom George, Ed Fitzgerald, or anyone else running for, or wanting to run for mayor:

First of all, thank you all for wanting to do so.

You all deserve our RESPECT and COURTESY, for wanting to make a difference in Lakewood.

All of you have friends and supporters. Some of them no doubt have, or will post on the 'deck in defense of your positions.

Some too, will probably attack each of your positions; perhaps at times, unfairly.

To you all, I would simply ask that you understand that no matter whether they attack or defend you, at least they care about Lakewood. At least I certainly hope so.

As a personal aside, I will tell you I am discouraged though. Some of the posts by some of the people have not been very polite, to say the least.

Particularly, I believe, a few of those posts that applied to me, on several different threads political and otherwise.

In fact, I am tempted to leave the 'Deck for this reason.

Do I wish we could all sing Kumbayah? You betcha!

Sorry Ryan, I do not have the kind of influence that you may think that I do. You'll have to ask Tom those kind of things yourself.

As a personal insight, I do know from my Poli. Sci background, that incumbents generally are better off avoiding debates. They historically stand the chance of losing more than they gain when they do. By standing on their accomplishments, that either makes or breaks their campaign, and statistically, it often makes it.

For you and Ed, of course you both probably, and understandably, want to bring up issues and demand answers.

But...

That's an uphill battle to do so, without sounding unduly harsh.

I have nothing against you personally, Ryan. You seem like a dynamic and passionate guy. You care, and that's a good thing.

Politics is such a tough game.

I'm already just sick of it. Sick, sick, sick....

And we have 6 months to go?

Justine Cooper · Post by **Justine Cooper** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:44 pm

Gary,
Politics aside, don't leave the Deck. The Deck and the world are a better place with you there! As per your thought-inspiring and brilliant article this last issue, you have survived bullies at a young age, and have much still to teach others!

David Scott · Post by **David Scott** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:24 pm

Going back a few days to the comment

"The Lakewood Observer backs no candidate or issue"

Then why is there an article on the front of the website opining that the right thing to do is to vote for Issue 4. This is not a letter to the editor that would reference one person's opinion, nor does it indicate that it was written by any type of advisory board.

I don't care if the paper issues endorsements, all news sources do and if it wants to be taken seriously, then take a stand. I just don't like blanket statements that don't appear to be accurate

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:39 pm

Mr.Scott,

there are four articles encouraging readers and citizens to vote for issue four on the home page of the website.

is that not enough to take a stand?

not only do they give a opinion, they give four.

leage of women voters,
BOE
Students within schools,
and the papers editors.

we can only endorse, we can't vote for everyone. the rest is in the hands of our good citizens.

Gary Rice · Post by **Gary Rice** » Sat May 05, 2007 6:52 pm

Justine:

Thank you.

Sincerely.

David:

People seem to be confused from time to time about the paper's editorial policy.

You see, as far as I am aware, most, if not all of us who write for it just submit the articles because we want to do so. Those who do can't be fired because we weren't hired in the first place. We are simply neighbors like you; that is to say everyday citizens of Lakewood who want to write. Some people may have agendas, some, only thoughts...some may write every other week, and others, when they feel like it.

I believe Jim indicated that the Editorial Board of the paper supported issue 4 unanimously. Fine, but that's still not the paper as a whole.

The whole idea of this paper, at least as I understand it, is to give you the same public forum that you enjoy here on the 'deck.

As far as blanket statements? Well, we probably all could do better with those, I think.

Especially these days...

DougHuntingdon · Post by **DougHuntingdon** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:09 pm

David

What bothers me the most at times is the lack of full disclosure.

Please understand I am NOT trying to single out Mr. Foran, but let's use issue 4 as an example. There is this long, glowing supporting article of issue 4 that gives countless examples of how smart and efficient our school system is along with a million reasons why issue 4 needs to be passed. That's all fine and dandy. Mr. Foran is entitled to his opinion as much as the next person, but...

why is it not signed

(hypothetical examples, as I do not know Mr. Foran's titles/positions)
Jay Foran, School Board President
Jay Foran, Spokesman for betterschooldsforlakewood.org
Jay Foran, Deputy Mayor of Lakewood
Jay Foran, Marketing Director for Lakewood City Schools
Jay Foran, concerned parent of three Lakewood middle school students

or whatever the proper titles/positions would be, unless otherwise clearly explained in the article? Otherwise, you read this great article, and it leaves the reader wonder: why did he write that article? Did someone tell him to write the article? Was it part of his job to write the article?

As I said, I am not trying to single out Mr. Foran, but more disclosure would be a good idea especially for articles and also for posts.

Doug

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:10 pm

Gary Rice wrote:JI believe Jim indicated that the Editorial Board of the paper supported issue 4 unanimously. Fine, but that's still not the paper as a whole.

The whole idea of this paper, at least as I understand it, is to give you the same public forum that you enjoy here on the 'deck.

As far as blanket statements? Well, we probably all could do better with those, I think.

Especially these days...

Gary

You have to remember that the Deck is one part of the Observer Project, there is the paper, the shopping experience the ever growing use of VMRs by civic groups, and two very large additions that are being readied to be open that will double the size of the website while making it easier to navigate and maintain.

As for the editorial policy, Public civil discourse is the foundation of a democracy. We have stated The Lakewood Observer will not back any candidate. This seems fair, as we represent a very good sized cross section of Lakewood. Instead we would rather present any facts,on issues, or opinions from fellow Lakewoodites. And let the votes fall where they may.

This does not preclude any member of the board from taking a personal stand on any issue or candidate. When the Advisory Board agreed 100% on Issue 4, we issued a release that stated. The Advisory Board backed the issue, not the Lakewood Observer or it's members.

Gary, do not leave.

We need one sane voice here.

Just because the Kumbaya Band is on break dose not mean it should leave.

I am reading a paper on the state of the city.

It is going to be an interesting summer for sure.

While we looked at ice, lights and flowers, we took our
eye off the prize.

.

David Scott · Post by **David Scott** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:14 pm

I guess I am just easily confused.

Either the paper endorses or it doesn't endorse. The last two posts contradict what was written earlier by the main founder of the paper. If people are just writing articles for submission, isn't there some type of approval process ?? If anyone can just write an article and submit it shouldn't there be some type of disclaimer that the opinion stated in the article is not necessarily the opinion of the editorial board ?? That is how most newspapers I have read do it - they either place the articles on an editorial page or separate themselves from opinion since newspapers are supposed to contain news articles which are based on fact. Maybe it all has to do with my lack of knowledge of the paper. Maybe it isn't meant to be a newspaper, but rather a community happenings and opinion. I honestly don't think I've ever read the paper and only puruse the website to update myself on local happenings. I don't come here for news but rather community happenings. I just didn't like the statement that we don't endorse when we obviously endorse.

Kenneth Warren · Post by **Kenneth Warren** » Sat May 05, 2007 7:45 pm

Mr. Scott:

The Lakewood Observer is a participatory volunteer experiment in civic journalism that will by the very nature of the citizens involved in the advisory board and the production of stories reflect senses of belonging to the city and contain elements of advocacy, personal conviction, and interest in public institutions.

I can understand the possibility for confusion, especially given the undercapitalized mix of innovation, passions, perspectives, personalities and pressures at play here.

More to the point, I appreciate your point about the blanket statement containing the word Ã¢â‚¬Å“issues,Ã¢â‚¬Â which in my opinion is confusing and would have been better left unstated.

Kenneth Warren

Gary Rice · Post by **Gary Rice** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:12 pm

Jim,

Thanks for your kind words regarding my sanity.

As to their veracity, I suppose that might depend upon whom you might ask :-)

I think that David and Doug make some good points regarding the difference between reporting and editorials.

In the past, those distinctions were often more clear-cut in American journalism. During the Reagan years, it is my understanding that the fairness in media law was changed. As a result more polemic (that is, one-sided) reporting probably came into play. These days, we have both "Left-Wing" and "Right-Wing" radio and TV shows, for example.

Nowadays, it takes a critical eye, ear, and mind to discern the difference between facts and opinions.

(Didn't we try to TEACH you people that distinction in 7th grade too? :-)

I do not think, however, that there is any obligation to reveal ones bias in an article, however, as helpful as that might be.

That leaves it to you and I to read both on, and between the lines of a story.

Just don't kid yourself into thinking that this problem lies only with the Lakewood Observer.

Perhaps we should just think of just about anything we see or read these days as having some kind of.... message?

Oops Jim! Is that paranoia creeping in?

Bryan Schwegler · Post by **Bryan Schwegler** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:18 pm

Gary Rice wrote:In fact, I am tempted to leave the 'Deck for this reason.

As someone who has butted heads with you more than once on here over one issue or another, I'd hate to see you leave. As you pointed out to the candidates, we all love Lakewood. Even in disagreement the seeds of improvement are sown.

Do I wish we could all sing Kumbayah? You betcha!

I think we'll need alot more Kool-Aid to get us their, but we may still make it yet!

Gary Rice · Post by **Gary Rice** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:29 pm

Bryan,

Thank you,

We might have butted heads, but we've never locked horns!

Thanks for your contributions here as well.

As two who have clashed over issues, yet still respect each other, what can you and I write, or do, to help promote the positive "civil discourse" that the Observer founders seem to want so much?

You and I both have both realized the validity of our respective positions regarding various matters, and we both see a bigger picture than our own polemics.

As the Quaker saying goes. There are 3 sides to an argument: Thine, mine, and the Truth.

You and I have labored for that Truth.

Thank God for you, my adversary, my friend.

David Scott · Post by **David Scott** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:42 pm

Mr Warren with all due respect if I could understand what you said I would respond, but I am not going to pull out my dictionary for this. Suffice to say I had my say and I think I understand a little bit better that I should not look to this for news but rather treat it as a blog.

Ivor Karabatkovic · Post by **Ivor Karabatkovic** » Sat May 05, 2007 8:59 pm

If anyone can just write an article and submit it shouldn't there be some type of disclaimer that the opinion stated in the article is not necessarily the opinion of the editorial board

there is that, but only in the print version of the newspaper. it's in the same section as the list of names who contributed to the issue.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Sat May 05, 2007 9:09 pm

Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:
If anyone can just write an article and submit it shouldn't there be some type of disclaimer that the opinion stated in the article is not necessarily the opinion of the editorial board

there is that, but only in the print version of the newspaper. it's in the same section as the list of names who contributed to the issue.

Actually, this is at the bottom of every page on the Deck:

"The views expressed in any posts on the Observation Deck are the views of the person posting them. The Lakewood Observer does not approve of individual posts nor is the Lakewood Observer responsibe for the content in any post. This forum is maintained, solely to provide an arena for discussion, without approval, editing or censorship by the Lakewood Observer."