BEER ENGINE Who approved this sign?

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 8:40 am

Well Brett, old pal, Guess we can count on at least two broads who won't be there!

Stan.....Shocking, simply shocking. And so unlike you.

Jeff

Gary Rice · Post by **Gary Rice** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:12 am

I've never heard "Kumbayah" sung in a brewery.

I'll go back to that "Historic preservation? Be afraid, be very afraid" post for a moment.

I think they have a right to put up a sign without being micro-dictated to by some board.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

By the same token, Lakewoodites have every right to decide whether or not to patronize this place.

I am really bothered lately however, by a bigger issue. Are we losing more than we gain with these threads lately?

The whole purpose of a community forum, I would think, is constructive dialogue...building the brand, as Jim likes to say.

The last few weeks have caused me to reflect as to whether we are all bogging down into squabbles and posturing?

I'm not sure what we can do about this, but I do think we need to take a hard look at ourselves.

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:30 am

Gary Rice wrote:The whole purpose of a community forum, I would think, is constructive dialog...building the brand, as Jim likes to say.

The last few weeks have caused me to reflect as to whether we are all bogging down into squabbles and posturing?

I'm not sure what we can do about this, but I do think we need to take a hard look at ourselves.

Gary

I really see much of this as healthy. I have been married for 22 years, to a wonderful woman. Do we always agree? Hardly, we all bring our ideas and notions to the table. We have background, or maybe just ideas on much of this. We sit at the table and voice the through and the opinion.

What happens, happens. Growth, learning, ideas and people are framed. Soon a scale develops, one that helps others judge, whatever they judge. It all is a growing experience for all of us.

Some come, so go, some register, others do not. But the traffic flow is dramatic, the people reading, lurking are an incredible number.

While it would be great for them to jump in, they care not to a for a variety of reasons. Often someone is already representing their views. They all understand they can jump in anytime, and we will not limit your reading of the civic discourse by making lurkers sign in.

Gary, what seems unhealthy, in the end just might be the cure.

.

Rick Uldricks · Post by **Rick Uldricks** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 9:35 am

Gary Rice wrote:I've never heard "Kumbayah" sung in a brewery.

I'll go back to that "Historic preservation? Be afraid, be very afraid" post for a moment.

I think they have a right to put up a sign without being micro-dictated to by some board.

Of course, that's just my opinion.

By the same token, Lakewoodites have every right to decide whether or not to patronize this place.

I am really bothered lately however, by a bigger issue. Are we losing more than we gain with these threads lately?

Gary, Going back to your earlier thread - "Historic preservation? Be afraid, be very afraid" - I think this BEER ENGINE sign represents some of the same ideas and some of the same problems. It appears that Lakewood has a problem with consistency. NO, I don't think a homeowner should have to jump though hoops in order to install screens on the home he owns. HOWEVER, I don't think a business owner should be allowed to just erect any sign with any words, paint his building any color, etc. w/o regard to the community's standards. (Lakewood does have standards, I assume)

I remember commenting on this board about the "Wholesale Mattress" and "JD ByRider" signs appearing at busy intersections and being told that the city department that enforces these violations was "too busy" to handle these tasks, and that residents should take it upon themselves to collect the signs. This is the kind of bigger issue we're dealing with here.

Gary Rice · Post by **Gary Rice** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:21 pm

OK guys, I get your points.

But I'll raise the stakes, and go you one better:

Who was it said that liberty without license was anarchy?

The question in my mind would be whether that sublime utterance applies to signage, or to the Deck? Both? Neither?

Do we feel that nothing is wrong with (just about) whatever is posted, and that the interactions, however spark-filled, are good for freedom-of-expression?

OK, then logically, how do we then presume to restrict signage? Under what criterion-referenced standard? Most of those have been shot down anyway, by past Supreme Court rulings.

For the good of the city, you will argue...yes...and your point was?

Something to think about, I suppose.

I love consistency. It is so rare to find, even with my own thinking at times :-)

c. dawson · Post by **c. dawson** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 12:46 pm

restricting signage is a thorny issue ... after all, the owner has a right to advertise his business through signage, but the community also has a right to expect a relatively tasteful sign (and of course, who decides what's tasteful) that doesn't bring down the aesthetics of a neighborhood.

I know one solution was out in Mentor, where I grew up. The city mandated that signs be lowered ... so instead of huge tall signs, they were brought down to street level, giving the commercial streets like Route 20 less of that horrific outer-ring suburban sprawl look. The businesses still had signs, including distinctive shapes and sizes, but they weren't sky-high for everyone to see, they were down at eye level. They still could attract the eye of a passing motorist, but they didn't dominate the view.

Though ultimately, it's up to the city to decide what they want, have the mechanism in place to review all requests and make suggestions so that the signs are a bit more tasteful (in my opinion, since I'm writing this post!) and fit in well with the city's overall aesthetic ... and then enforce it. Is Lakewood doing this now? It seems they have the mechanism for doing this, but are they really? And should there be changes down the road?

The goal is to make it win-win for everyone ... allow a business owner the opportunity to advertise his/her business and its location, but also giving the community something that doesn't look wildly out of place, or becomes a blight on the landscape. It can be tough, but it can be done.

Esther Hazlett · Post by **Esther Hazlett** » Tue Mar 06, 2007 7:19 pm

Bret Callentine wrote:I've been looking for a new bar to call home ever since they knocked down the Warren Tavern to put up the fourth drug store within a quarter mile of my house (five if you count the crack house down the street).

Bret, preach on, my brother! I miss that place terribly!

c. dawson · Post by **c. dawson** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:22 pm

Speaking of the Beer Engine, I got an email from them, giving more details about the place:

BUCKEYE BEER ENGINE
15315 MADISON AVENUE
LAKEWOOD, OH 44107
216-226-BEER

THE BUCKEYE BREWING COMPANY
CLEVELAND, OH

Garin Wright here. How are you quality quaffers!

It's been a while......... we are back, and ready to live beer once again.

Hope everyone is doing fine. Saw some good folks down at Rock Bottom a couple weeks ago.

visit

WWW.BUCKEYEBEERENGINE.COM

for a printable invite for our DRY RUN this weekend.
check out the quaffcast

Opening buckeye BEER ENGINE, brewery - booze - burgers on March 13th, 2007.

Test run, mock service, dry run is THIS Saturday, March 10th and Sunday, March 11th.
Seating 11am to 11pm both days.

You are cordially invited to the Buckeye Beer Engine.

This is the first time the staff will operate as a unit in the public eye.
Yes, we expect some problems. We want it to be busy for the staff. We want to stress them.

50% off your total check including alcohol.

Sorry, NO growlers will be filled until mid March.

THE FACTS:

Beer Engine is a quality draft beer bar with a beer friendly menu.
Beer Engine is full service bar that will operate 7 days a week from 11am to 2:30am.
Beer Engine will offer 20+ draft beers.
Beer Engine will have a Beer Engine that will pour cask conditioned ales.
Beer Engine is microscopic brewery separate from Buckeye Brewing.
Beer Engine is responsible for "test batches" for Buckeye.
Beer Engine will offer quaffables from Buckeye Brewing.
Beer Engine will offer hard to find and delicious beer from around the globe.
Beer Engine will host special events.
Beer Engine will have beer/food dinners.
Beer Engine is less than five minutes off the exit of 90 and Warren Road.
Beer Engine has ample parking and a patio for the warmer months.
Beer Engine was picked as a name because we think it is cool.
Beer Engine will constantly rotate draft selections so nobody gets bored
Beer Engine is the bar and eatery, Buckeye is the main Brewery.
Beer Engine is a machine designed to control the quality of our draft beer.
Beer Engine will officially open on Tuesday, March 13th at 11am.

See our micro engine brewery this weekend, let's talk beer!

Buckeye Brewing started in 1997 in Bedford Heights.
Buckeye Brewing has been brewing in Cleveland since early January.
Buckeye Brewing is catching up and will soon have more supply.
Buckeye Brewing is operated by Garin Wright and Kevin Gallo.
Buckeye Brewing is focusing more and more on cask conditioned ales.
'76, Hippie, Yuppie, Mammoth in the tanks.

Beer Engine will start out with a limited supply of Buckeye until caught up.
Beer Engine will have Buckeye beer upon opening.
Beer list will be released later this week.

Stay tuned for updates. Quaff, more history and details.
Thanks for reading, I hope to see some thirsty quaffers this weekend.
It's been a while, we are now ready to push the envelope.

BEER ENGINE brewery - booze - burgers

Garin Wright, Head Brewer, Buckeye Brewing and Beer Engine.

David Lay · Post by **David Lay** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 12:48 pm

Anyone wanna cover the dry run for the paper? I can shoot photos, just say the word...

Rick Uldricks · Post by **Rick Uldricks** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:01 pm

c. dawson wrote:
See our micro engine brewery this weekend, let's talk beer!

BEER ENGINE brewery - booze - burgers

Garin Wright, Head Brewer, Buckeye Brewing and Beer Engine.

No. Let's talk about changing your sign, Garin.

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:07 pm

Let's get the torches ready, sharpen those pitchforks......

With protesters shoulder to shoulder it'll be one helluva dry run!

Jeff

Rick Uldricks · Post by **Rick Uldricks** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:21 pm

Jeff Endress wrote:Let's get the torches ready, sharpen those pitchforks......

With protesters shoulder to shoulder it'll be one helluva dry run!

Jeff

Do you approve of this sign, Jeff? From a design and taste perspective, I think it's in the same ballpark as the BOOZE ENGINE sign. Actually, it's a tad more tasteful with the nod to MOM on Mother's Day.

Jeff Endress · Post by **Jeff Endress** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:42 pm

Do you approve of this sign, Jeff?

No, but only on the basis that I don't particularly approve of the business, otherwise it looks pretty nice.

But you apparently feel a micro-brewery is akin to an adult book store!

Jeff

Bret Callentine · Post by **Bret Callentine** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 1:51 pm

Who really wants to attend a "DRY" run at a bar?

Once again, it's not the message, it's their particular choice of words that seems to be questionable.

Jim O'Bryan · Post by **Jim O'Bryan** » Thu Mar 08, 2007 2:34 pm

Bret Callentine wrote:Who really wants to attend a "DRY" run at a bar?

Once again, it's not the message, it's their particular choice of words that seems to be questionable.

OK

where to start...

Good Lakewood owners, good Lakewood business people.

Sign is temporary, to be replace shortly.

One of the owners owns the deli on the other side of the street.

Dream come true, they have always wanted this place, and saw the
chance to work with Buckeye Brewing to be something the city needed.

I applaud them on taking a chance on a second business in Lakewood, and look forward to them opening and changing the signage.

.