The Observation Deck

Joe:

Is the program improving education, or is it improving test scores?

There is a difference.

Peace,
~Charyn

Mr. Warren.

Your analysis, or more precisely, the Wiikipedia contributor's, of NCLB leaves out one very critical point: If indeed the goal is "to set the stage for the eventual privatization of the U.S. public school system," why was it written so that countless thousands of districts will be virtually untouched by it? And why were the sanctions written so that school districts get almost seven years to clean up their acts? The worst measures don't kick in until districts have continued to fail, year after year. Make the goal two years out of three, and you're home free. The "death penalty" of state takeover only follows a consistent string of failure.
Let's put our cards on the table Public education as it exists in Westlake is truly a wonderful thing. In Cleveland, it is a total and abysmal failure. Could Cleveland public schools possibly do any worse? What more horrible thing could you do to a child than enroll him or her in a Cleveland public school, if you could possibly avoid it?

Lakewood of course, falls in between,.but if we can keep Lakewood from becoming Cleveland by applying the "broken window" philosophy to our schools, so be it. The alternative is asking, in 15-20 years, "what did we do wrong? Why didn't we fix our problems when they were smaller and more manageable?" As I tell my kids, making excuses is a little like lying. It's a hard habit to break.
NCLB is a flawed, maybe fatally, program, and I don't think it will survive in its current form past 2009. However, it does serve to get us "off the dime" in terms of districts that fail their public mission. I can't say that's a bad thing.

Let's put our cards on the table Public education as it exists in Westlake is truly a wonderful thing.

Lakewood of course, falls in between,.

Joan I am not necessarily disagreeing with you but I am curious. Does Westlake offer special ed children the opportunity to mainstream with regular ed. Do they offer autism units? What is their gifted program like? Do the have self-contained units or do they merely offer pull out programs? Do they have public pre-school specially designed to service low income children? Are the schools walkable for the majority of students? What are the school sizes? Are they large vast complexes or are they small and homey? I am just curious. Lakewood has so many wonderful programs to offer. The main reason we choose to live in Lakewood is because the schools are not one size fits all. This is a great district that attempts to serve all students. While I may have some issues here and there I must say I love our schools. I have had many friends move out to the burbs only to complain that they thought the schools would be better. We have lived other places and nothing has measured up to Lakewood. Our schools are progressive and the kids I have seen raised in the Lakewood school system are ready to face the world. Yes we have our problems as we are a inner ring suburb but please don't think they are mediocre, they really are great.

Ms. Roberts:

I don't care for excuses either. There we agree. Let's deal with the realities, values, markets, classes straight.

I don’t read NCLB as a single grand plan for privatizing all the schools in one fell swoop.

I read NCLB as one policy element in a larger ideological script, called Neo-liberalism.

The ideological roots of NCLB go back to the free market proposals of Milton Friedman and arguments for introduction of market forces and school choice.

Neo-liberal logic holds the belief that the market does all things better than public institutions.

We have seen the roll-out and effects increasing lately to privatize the profit in prisons, military, health care, social security, etc.

While the system of global capitalism heaps up inequality along with racial and class polarization, the low hanging fruit for privatizing schools is not in Westlake but in inner city.

Is Lakewood on the cusp of low-hanging fruit for privatizers?

Evidently for Dr. Estrop it is worth raising the consideration.

I don't think he is crying wolf; I think he understands the Neoliberal logic and the forces that are bearing down on public education.

The Neoliberal logic behind NCLB ignores the destructive effects of global capital on communities and lives, while suggesting the market can produce more efficient and productive schools.

Bottom line: Put the “bad public schoolsâ€Â￾ in the hood outa biz by making them uncompetitive.

NCLB is an ideological signal, a test in the court of public opinion. It’s not the be all and end all to privatize all public schools.

NCLB is worth contesting if one's values for economic, educational, political and social organization depart from the dominant market model. Likewise NCLB is worth defending if you believe a market based solution is the answer.

Kenneth Warren

Phil, I have to disagree. While I think Lakewood does a good job not all districts do. There has to be accountability. All children should be provided a quality education and frankly if it wasn't mandated some districts wouldn't provide it. If we could trust districts to do a good job there would never have been a need for NCLB.

I never said they shouldn't be accountable, only that they should be accountable to their local citizens and not some beaurocrat in Washington, D.C. Schools are mandated to provide quality education. I totally agree with the need to define what quality it and have a way to measure that. Teachers do that every day with their students and parents should be doing that as well. I think an act like NCLB takes the responsibilities off the shoulders of parents and citizens of a community and puts it in the hands of politicians...which frankly is the last place such responsibility should be.

I worked in special education as a teacher for a while before moving into more general case management later on. What I love about special education is the Individual Education Plan. For those that don't have a special needs child or know of this part of the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, the IEP is a document created every year with a team of teachers, psychologists, nurses, adminstrators, and especially parents (and kids when they can handle it). This lays out the following year's education plan. It lays out expected goals, how they will be achieved and how we will know when they are achieved.

I think every kid should have one, those with or without disabilities. You wouldn't need the level of professional involvement that a special needs child might but wouldn't it be nice to work with parents and teachers in such a way? This would allow a better system of accountability than simple grade cards which don't tell the whole story. It would give mile markers to look for and discuss ways to get to them if the more "traditional" paths aren't working. There is a feel for this in Parent-Teacher meetings at younger age levels but it is a lost process as the child gets older (I think).

So much to talk about.
To Mr. Florian: You say schools should only be accountable to "local citizenry". Does that mean a district in Alabama (or southern Ohio) could have Bible study as part of its normal curriculum? Was Dover, PA right to institute a pitch for "intelligent design" as part of its science classes. Was "separate but equal" defensible? The issue of whether higher levels of government could supersede local control was settled long ago. Up to now, that's driven conservatives crazy and delighted liberals. Now it's somewhat reversed.

To Mr. Warren: Is privatization of schools on the long-term horizon? I don't see it on a wide scale. Too many people are too well served by their local public schools and would fight to keep them (Lakewood probably among them). But as I said, the public school system as currently constituted is definitely NOT working for the children of Cleveland. What do we do for those kids? Allow entrenched interest groups to continue to control the game board? That's civic malpractice.
I would also add a question. If the whole act is so pernicious, what was Sen. Kennedy's role in it?

And finally to Ms. Masters: You are right, I believe, that Lakewood schools do quite well, particularly with special needs children. But you were the one who correctly noted that an Avon may not do such a great job, simply because they were exempt from NCLB rules. Is the reverse not true? Is it so inconceivable that a Lakewood, if freed from the scrutiny of NCLB, would decide, after a failed levy or two, to trim that autism unit back? NCLB, as you suggested earlier, is a bit of insurance against that.
The answer of course, is across-the-board evaluation of subgroups. River will have to meet AYP on its 25 special ed kids the way Lakewood has to make the goal on its, what, 800? But Dr. Estrop isn't lobbying for THAT, because then Lakewood will have to meet AYP on its 20 Hispanic students, another nut to crack. He wants a pass.
I've probably whipped this horse to exhaustion, I don't believe that NCLB is a plot against Lakewood. I don't believe that "on the bubble' schools will be facing takeovers and privatization. And I still can't shake the notion that our superintendent's campaign, whatever the motivation, makes Lakewood look worse than it is.

I don't believe that NCLB is a plot against Lakewood. I don't believe that "on the bubble' schools will be facing takeovers and privatization. And I still can't shake the notion that our superintendent's campaign, whatever the motivation, makes Lakewood look worse than it is.

Ms. Roberts, I agree completely.

Joan Roberts wrote:As for putting the power in hands of government officials, should there be no accountability for schools at all? Should we just send Lakewood schools a $65,000,000 check every year and keep our pretty little mouths shut?

I agree.

The NCLB is a desperate attempt on the part of the federal government to demand accountablity from school officials. The teachers unions and school officials are just as desperate to avoid any accountability.

For anyone interested in a great study on the affects of spending on education please see www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-298.html

Joe: You have some great ideas. Keep writing. Lakewood is a liberal town and the Observer is a liberal paper but eventually something you write will be printed.

Joan Roberts wrote:So much to talk about.
To Mr. Florian: You say schools should only be accountable to "local citizenry". Does that mean a district in Alabama (or southern Ohio) could have Bible study as part of its normal curriculum? Was Dover, PA right to institute a pitch for "intelligent design" as part of its science classes. Was "separate but equal" defensible? The issue of whether higher levels of government could supersede local control was settled long ago. Up to now, that's driven conservatives crazy and delighted liberals. Now it's somewhat reversed.

I agree with you a bit (though I don't think "only" accountable is as accurate as "accountable first" to local citizenry). I still support a separation of church and state that would preclude publicly funded Bible courses as a part of public curriculum but I don't support the more radical interpretation that prevents students from organizing their own Bible Studies at school. As for Dover, PA, you bring up a good point. Actually, it kind of supports my point, too. While the Court did go in and say Intelligent Design is incompatible with science instruction, it is also important to note I believe all but one of the people that voted in Intelligent Design were promptly voted off of the School Board soon after. Citizens made the board members accountable and booted them out.

That said, I do see your point. It really isn't that I have a problem with national or state standards as much as I do with the consequences of those standards, especially if they aren't fairly applied. I read the PD article on Mr. Estrop's concerns and I still support his thoughts on this. Sure, he should continue to work towards getting the job done but I agree that pointing out the problem and doing something about it can be done at the same time. I don't think he is saying to his teachers, "Stop working while I go and make a national case."

Beyond that, there already were standards set and multiple ways to determine the quality of schools. There are statistics that showed percentage of graduates compared to enrolled students. Percentage of graduates to be accepted into colleges. Comparative SAT/ACT scores. There are gobs of Proficiency Tests given at most grade levels (speaking of that, it is March! Where education takes a break for the purposes of Proficiency Testing!). There are state curriculum standards. And so on...

Yet the best idea to come out of Washington was more beaurocracy?? And unfunded mandates, to boot? I am sorry but I think in this case no action would be better than poorly done action. I think this country thrives on the perception of "doing something" when there is a problem. If we are "doing something" then it is better than "doing nothing." While "doing nothing" isn't always a good option, sometimes it is preferrable to heading off in a costly or dangerous direction.

To go back to my first point, we have a TON of ways to judge whether or not a school district is doing well or not. We have local, state and federal standards already prior to NCLB. The cost of focusing so much on standards and proficiency has cost many school districts the other, sometimes just as important, aspects of school that include after school programs like sports, the arts, community activities, and so on. Was NCLB worth it? Are we really putting out better educated kids? When will we know? Will it simply be because we have kids with better test scores? What will that prove? That a kid can say "Would you like fries with that?" in multiple languages?

As a side note, when do people think "it all went wrong?"

There was a time in my lifetime (I am in my late 30's) when US Education was looked to by the world as one of the best. Now folks look elsewhere, like Sweden or other European countries to see how education should look. When did that happen?? I am not saying let's blame someone. Surely that would go something like, "It was the Republicans and their drive for private schools! No, it was Teacher Unions and their worship of the almighty dollar!!" and we wouldn't get anywhere. Was our education system always bad and we just didn't know it until it was too late? Because when I went to school in the 70's and 80's, we didn't have much in the way of proficiency testing and none of them were "high stakes" in that they could prevent us from graduating.

Any ideas where, as Hunter S. Thompson put it, "the wave finally broke and rolled back?" When was our highwater mark?

The NCLB is a desperate attempt on the part of the federal government to demand accountablity from school officials. The teachers unions and school officials are just as desperate to avoid any accountability.

To your last point, how so? Are you honestly saying that teachers are just out there to make a buck regardless of how it is done? What is your proof of that? Estropp is simply asking for a level playing field. It is like going to a high school football game and the suburban team gets to field 11 guys but we inner ring cities only get to field 8. Should coach just buck up and send his 8 in and hope for the best or try to get 3 other kids on the field?

Are you saying that prior to NCLB there was NO accountability? Does that mean all the proficiency testing yielded no data? That all the curriculum standards yielded no accountability to follow them? That citizens were unable to have any effect on their local school districts?

Mr. Warren,

I understand that you seem to have doubts about the free market. Does the same hold true for school funding? With the current (unconstitutional) way of funding schools, people get to choose where to live in part based on school performance. This must now be changed so that schools are funded more equally.

Should the same principle apply to libraries? Is it wrong for one community to fund their local library at a certain rate while the next door community funds theirs at a much lower rate?
What about other funding issues? Sewars, police, etc.

I know that many people say they like Lakewood the way it is and don't want to share resources, but isn't the supreme court of Ohio telling us to do just that?

Joe

Joan Roberts wrote:To Mr. Warren: Is privatization of schools on the long-term horizon? I don't see it on a wide scale. Too many people are too well served by their local public schools and would fight to keep them (Lakewood probably among them). But as I said, the public school system as currently constituted is definitely NOT working for the children of Cleveland. What do we do for those kids? Allow entrenched interest groups to continue to control the game board? That's civic malpractice.
I would also add a question. If the whole act is so pernicious, what was Sen. Kennedy's role in it?

Joan

They are not prepared to take over the schools in one fell swoop. Instead they have targeted the largest districts and second largest districts. In other words large city schools and second ring suburbs. With the money from this, they can finance the second part of the take over.

The school systems are not working lets be honest. But NCLB is the Feng Shui of education. pointless, worthless but lets you feel like the chi is possible going the right way! At least it grades something!

It seems to be the big break is and always has been engaging the students. How to engage a majority of the students in such a way they realize that the schools are there to serve them not imprison them. I've never met a kid that didn't want to learn when he could be shown a use for the knowledge pour.


.

Interesting factoid gleaned from NPR the other day...

The reason the **MAJORITY** of kids drop out of school? Drugs? nope. Pregnancy? Nope. Poverty? Nope.


Boredom.


Plain IL' fashioned boredom. School is neither interesting or relevant to these children so they 'tune out'. I haven't had the chance to do any follow up research on this - but it sounds incredibly interesting in light of the current discussions on how best to fix the current problems with the educational system.

Peace,
~Charyn