The Observation Deck

Once again where is this 2 number coming from, there were 6 yesterday.

That's the maximum number I remember from Dennis's deal, Scott. Didn't remember the point 9 ... And it's true, traffic has been nowhere near that for years.

michael gill wrote:That's the maximum number I remember from Dennis's deal, Scott. Didn't remember the point 9 ... And it's true, traffic has been nowhere near that for years.

At the Root Meeting/Path Crossing when I took this photo we talked of the trains, and increase.



The number he used was 4, as per the agreement. We talked about a lot so, it could have
been a number that allowed for more under circumstances, whatever. But 4 was the number used.

Danielle

Traffic has been increasing since the moment Congressman Kucinich left office. To where it
will increase a bunch, so the announcement was made. Again, this follows the "rumor"
from a knowledgeable person, that it will lead to a second track.

It was also my understanding that the last rail was left, as the railroad wants to control
their destiny in regards to property.

Michael Gill and I both know first hand how the railroad feels about their property. No one
on it, and keep it kind of dangerous to kids so they stay away.

More trains and probably more tracks.

.

4 total trains is the reality, with some give and take on certain days.
So if it is 4, why are they saying 2, and what does that portend in the short-term for the 6 they are talking about?

Now that the election is over, shouldn't one of our local officials be reaching out to Marcy Kaptur?

Just to re-emphasize, the affect of noise on those who live close to the rails is less than the inconvenience and safety issues for the whole town, not to mention the hazardous materials. Correct me if I'm wrong, but people who live close the train tracks have learned to live with the noise. A real estate agent once told me that it's an old saw around here that the railroad is a good neighbor to have.

Directly from Lakewood City Hall...

Mayor Summers Shares Concerns Over Increased Train Traffic in Lakewood
- City Hall, November 5, 2014 Close

Mayor Michael Summers has reached out to the Ohio Rail Development Commission, Norfolk Southern and neighboring communities to voice his concerns about the railroad’s plan to triple train traffic through Lakewood and other Westshore communities.

Residents should expect a rise in rail traffic soon, and some may have already noticed an increase. Norfolk Southern has informed Lakewood that “increased rail traffic and congestion” will result in four more trains coming through Lakewood each day.

Three Westshore communities — Lakewood, Rocky River and Bay Village — reached an agreement with Norfolk Southern in 1998 to cap train traffic at no more than an average of 14 daily.

Mayor Summers is urging the railroad, as well as state and federal governments, to help implement “quiet zones,” created when double gates are placed on each side of certain crossings to prevent someone from driving around the gate. The gates can also eliminate the federal requirement for train operators to sound the trains’ horns.

With the city’s 26.5 railroad crossings, it would cost approximately $13 million to install quiet zones. “It may be time to figure out how to implement that,” Summers added.

Prior to the 1998 agreement, dozens of trains were scheduled to pass through the line each day. Norfolk Southern then diverted much of that traffic to its Chicago line, located at the south of Lakewood.

“These tracks have been here since Lakewood got started as a community,” said Summers. “Trains make sense. They’re environmentally friendly; they’re more cost-effective; they put fewer demands on our road-and-bridge infrastructure and they’re more economically competitive.”

Summers is slated to meet with other Westshore leaders — as well as US Rep Marcy Kaptur — in the coming weeks, to discuss the options.

“If we take the long view here, railroad traffic isn’t likely to go away,” he added. “We need to rethink how Lakewood manages that traffic more effectively. Our first 100 years, we just accepted it. We need to start thinking about our second 100 years.”

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Dan Alaimo wrote:Just to re-emphasize, the affect of noise on those who live close to the rails is less than the inconvenience and safety issues for the whole town, not to mention the hazardous materials. Correct me if I'm wrong, but people who live close the train tracks have learned to live with the noise. A real estate agent once told me that it's an old saw around here that the railroad is a good neighbor to have.

Dan

One of the cornerstones for the reason Lincoln was kept, is that train traffic is very dangerous.

From the Lakewood Observer Archives...

Mike Zannoni's Article -
Elementary School Kids & Train Crossings: Can The Worst Be Avoided?
http://lakewoodobserver.com/read/2011/07/13/elementary-school-kids-train-crossings-can-the-worst-be-avoided
"Note 2: The number of trains per day running through Lakewood currently 2 - 6 (as needed), while the maximum number allowed by a 1998 agreement with Norfolk Southern is 14, with no penalty for exceeding the max until they exceed 24 trains per day. We could therefore have more than six times the number of trains running through Lakewood compared to what we currently have, and still be within that hard won agreement."

"Current School Board President Matt Markling, the lone dissenter to the decision, included train crossings among many well-articulated reasons..."

Mike Zannoni - Don’t Be Left Out of Lakewood’s Future
http://www.lakewoodobserver.com/read/2009/09/09/dont-be-left-out-of-lakewoods

District Configuration
This group examined “walkability” (goal: the least number of children having to walk more than ¾ mile) and safety implications (goal: fewest children crossing busy intersections, walking along busier streets and crossing train tracks). Looking at the hypothetical closure of each elementary school in turn, it was determined that the resulting re-configurations of the school district could be ranked in terms of negative impact to the community. The number of current students who would be negatively affected is documented for each scenario.

FWIW

So the number of 14 is for the "books" really 24 trains before any penalty.


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While the horns are not my favorite sound they are a reality of living by the tracks. I don't see how the quiet zones would help with pedestrian safety which seems more of an issue in Lakewood that car safety. Whether it's legal or not the reality is people regularly walk the tracks and taking away the horns would just make that practice all the more dangerous.

I really would like an answer about what types of hazardous materials are going through the city. Up until October I hadn't seen a tanker car on any trains and now I've seen them daily. So what is in them?

Considering the Mayor put some time and effort into his statement, I applaud his communication and I hesitate (a little) to criticize it. I also applaud his efforts to address the issues with other communities and Rep. Kaptur. But it does call for some clarifications.

The math is a little strange:
2=4
6=12 or 14
14=24
If I read Jim correctly, if we concede this issue, the number of trains will quickly be closer to 24 than 6 fairly soon.

"Residents should expect a rise in rail traffic soon, and some may have already noticed an increase."
Is it soon or already? I can't tell from my observations, although it seemed like there were more than usual last night.

“Trains make sense. They’re environmentally friendly; they’re more cost-effective; they put fewer demands on our road-and-bridge infrastructure and they’re more economically competitive.”
I like trains too, as does my 4-year-old grandson - they a good and necessary means of transportation, and sometimes fun to watch, but Lakewood is a special case. From what I've heard, the Norfolk Southern folks are a fairly hard-nosed bunch. We need to respond in kind.

I hadn't thought about students crossing the tracks to go to school. That's another very good point.

I haven't seen emergency vehicles mentioned yet. I'll bet a discussion of that is in the archives too.

And I'm with Danielle, let's keep up the effort to find out about what's being transported through our community.

Dan Alaimo wrote:The math is a little strange:
2=4
6=12 or 14
14=24
If I read Jim correctly, if we concede this issue, the number of trains will quickly be closer to 24 than 6 fairly soon.

"Residents should expect a rise in rail traffic soon, and some may have already noticed an increase."
Is it soon or already? I can't tell from my observations, although it seemed like there were more than usual last night.

“Trains make sense. They’re environmentally friendly; they’re more cost-effective; they put fewer demands on our road-and-bridge infrastructure and they’re more economically competitive.”
I like trains too, as does my 4-year-old grandson - they a good and necessary means of transportation, and sometimes fun to watch, but Lakewood is a special case. From what I've heard, the Norfolk Southern folks are a fairly hard-nosed bunch. We need to respond in kind.

I hadn't thought about students crossing the tracks to go to school. That's another very good point.

Last night was a bit odd, I very rarely wake to the train but there were so many and they did wake me.

We like trains, our youngest is autistic and when we first moved here it was a huge plus of the house because he loved them so much.

As far as students crossing the tracks they do it every single day, at least on my street. So there safety is important, although we usually don't have trains running during drop off and release times but I have to wonder if that will soon change.

I hope that communication on this issue stays open and that questions are answers. Lakewood is a unique city in the impact that train traffic has to a large part of the city.

Dan

The math is easy to figure out on all levels.

2-4 or 24 with a space?

14 or 24 = Hard to claim success at that number, 2 an hour.

14 = Not being completely truthful

The number is 24 or less, at the complete discretion of the railroad.

Safety Vehicles... Fire has one station north of the tracks, and one near the only
under pass to the railroad. Police work both sides, as pointed out most emergency
vehicles go to Metro or Fairview, and in 16 months when Clinic pulls out, it will be
Shoreway to W25, or Innerbelt, I-71, off at W25th. for those north of the tracks,
and I-90 to W25th, or 237 to Fairview.

I only bring up trains because some of the things we did with schools was based on
less train traffic not more. While I would not be so crass as to say "Safety" was more
than a red herring in the Phase III Discussions.

.

Two questions:
What is the timetable for getting these plans changed? Or has the proverbial train left the station?
Does anyone see an advantage of forming a citizens advisory group on this? Or can we just trust City Hall?

Wasn't that fun? I said I would pose 2 questions, but it was really 4.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Dan

The math is easy to figure out on all levels.

2-4 or 24 with a space?

14 or 24 = Hard to claim success at that number, 2 an hour.

14 = Not being completely truthful

The number is 24 or less, at the complete discretion of the railroad.

Safety Vehicles... Fire has one station north of the tracks, and one near the only
under pass to the railroad. Police work both sides, as pointed out most emergency
vehicles go to Metro or Fairview, and in 16 months when Clinic pulls out, it will be
Shoreway to W25, or Innerbelt, I-71, off at W25th. for those north of the tracks,
and I-90 to W25th, or 237 to Fairview.

I only bring up trains because some of the things we did with schools was based on
less train traffic not more. While I would not be so crass as to say "Safety" was more
than a red herring in the Phase III Discussions.

.

Jim, if I understand you correctly, the proverbial train has left station in the form of the terms of agreement Dennis forged with the railroad. Is this right? Dan

Danielle you can download the "Emergency Response Guidebook" here.
http://www.ehso.com/hmerg.php
You can look up the placard number to see its contents.
You will be surprised at what you find.

Craig Lovejoy wrote:Danielle you can download the "Emergency Response Guidebook" here.
http://www.ehso.com/hmerg.php
You can look up the placard number to see its contents.
You will be surprised at what you find.

Thank you Craig, I'm sure it will come in handy.

Town being sued by rail companies for trying to limit train traffic

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/national/ ... ar-BBfNbr7