Hilliard/Westwood Theater

[Ryan Salo]

It is my understanding the few tenants that were left living there have only been given 2 weeks to get out. So sad that this was not properly cared for and left to rot.

[Glenn Palmer]

I'm not sure that I understand something. We as a community publicly entertained the building of Drug Mart, Rite Aid, McDonalds, Family Dollar, GetGo, Rockport, Quaker Steak, The Lights on Arthur, Kaufman Park, The Basketball courts, The Bike Lanes/Sharrows, Historic Birdtown, St James Church, The Schools, THE GARBAGE CANS?!?!? But this venue the only one of it's kind in the State of Ohio the last chance to complete the possibility of dinner AND a movie within the city limits doesn't get the time of day. Where are kids to go that don't drive what are parents looking for a couple hours of sanity to do? The structure is not falling down and is built better than 90% of this community. Lets do some damage control here to allow some ideas to be tossed around before we do something irreversible. I admit that having stamped faux brick crosswalks looks good but isn't that just putting panty hose on a pig I'm still able to walk across the streets without them, however the way funds are directed is above me.

[Bill Call]

But this venue the only one of it's kind in the State of Ohio the last chance to complete the possibility of dinner AND a movie within the city limits doesn't get the time of day. Where are kids to go that don't drive what are parents looking for a couple hours of sanity to do? The structure is not falling down and is built better than 90% of this community.

The basic structure of the theater is superior to the Capital Theater and was more worthy of renovation. A movie theater is an important foundation for commercial development. That's why there is a theater at Crocker Park, that's why they are adding a theater at Great Northern and that's why the developers of Gordon Square pursued tax payer financing for the Capital Theater.

A rehabilitated Hilliard Theater would be a great plus for Lakewood but its never going to happen.

Because:

1. That's not the plan. The original Gordon Square plan included the unannounced intention to move Beck Center to Westlake and close the Detroit Theater. It was part of a broader plan that included relocating Cleveland's homeless to Lakewood and converting Lakewood apartment buildings to halfway houses. There were a few roadblocks along the way but the plan is still the plan. The Beck is staying but the Detroit Theater is gone. There is no way in the world that the powers that be will allow Lakewood to compete with Gordon Square. There just isn't enough business to go around.

2. The City doesn't have the $10 million to rehab the Theater and tear down the Silver Coast apartments. You would have to do both to make it viable. Even if the City had the money I don't think they have the will.

3. There is plenty of development money out there but not for Lakewood. The only way a project like this gets built is with other peoples money and we don't have access to other peoples money.

and just to beat a dead horse:

$10 million is what the City spent on the fire department overtime scam. Perhaps if previous administrations paid more attention to business we would have the money but they didn't and we don't.

[Jim O'Bryan]

I'm not sure that I understand something. We as a community publicly entertained the building of Drug Mart, Rite Aid, McDonalds, Family Dollar, GetGo, Rockport, Quaker Steak, The Lights on Arthur, Kaufman Park, The Basketball courts, The Bike Lanes/Sharrows, Historic Birdtown, St James Church, The Schools, THE GARBAGE CANS?!?!? But this venue the only one of it's kind in the State of Ohio the last chance to complete the possibility of dinner AND a movie within the city limits doesn't get the time of day. Where are kids to go that don't drive what are parents looking for a couple hours of sanity to do? The structure is not falling down and is built better than 90% of this community. Lets do some damage control here to allow some ideas to be tossed around before we do something irreversible. I admit that having stamped faux brick crosswalks looks good but isn't that just putting panty hose on a pig I'm still able to walk across the streets without them, however the way funds are directed is above me.

Glenn

Most of the ideas for the theater fell flat because of many reasons including the owner.

Ryan is right, "So sad that this was not properly cared for and left to rot."

When the original owner sold off the parking, the fate was sealed. Even though in the old
days it would seem there was enough parking for the "R" phase of the Westwood/Hillard
Theater. To make it successful it needed to be able to park about 150 cars. Then there is
the condition inside the theater, where water damage has destroyed much of the historical
qualities of this theater. There is very little chance for a theater on its own, look at the fate
of the Detroit and Parma Theaters. Both had parking, and second month movies as it is
nearly impossible to get first run movies in a one off theater in a large metropolitan area.

To make it a dinner theater, only complicates the formula for success, or even breaking
even. Spend $1,000,000 on cleaning it up and getting it ready, no parking, and you have
to turn 20,000 tables at $50 a head just to pay for the cleanup. Then there is staff, food,
movies, etc. So more like 50,000 tables at $50 a head. Do you think in a city with 238
places to buy food that ticket sells? In that quantity?

I also take great exception to the fact "Drug Mart, Rite Aid, McDonalds, Family Dollar, GetGo, Rockport, Quaker Steak, The Lights on Arthur, Kaufman Park, The Basketball courts, The Bike Lanes/Sharrows, Historic Birdtown, St James Church, The Schools, THE GARBAGE CANS?!?!?" While the schools, library and St. James was done with the full
support of the residents the others were monstrosities delivered to us through City Hall.
Just the other night I was photographing Garfield School, and how the lights from Family
Dollar and CVS really detract from the center piece of the school rebuild, the one school
they spent extra millions on to preserve its historic nature which fir in with the Victorian
Neighborhood. Millions wasted by residents with good intentions thrown out the window
by city hall and their lack of vision, planning, and historical significance.

Historic Birdtown, would needed to be called Historic Birdville to be historically correct, as
notified on all maps prior to 1935. But why let history get in the way of a historic project?
Then there is the Historically significant street Highland Avenue, scene of the Highland Ave.
Explosion. The street that it would seem Cleveland celebrates more than Lakewood with
a Highland Avenue RTA station, a Highland Ave Tavern, etc. History? In Lakewood?

There was zero residential support for McDonalds, CVS (either), Dollar General, Family Dollar,
Value World etc. None, actually residents went to war with the city to stop, slow it down,
or at least get residential friendly designs that it would seem other cities got with no problem.

Which brings us to the most historically significant theater in Northern Ohio, The Phantasy,
also known as the Homestead in the older days. Not only was it a first class theater in its
day, it was re-purposed successfully as a live entertainment venue, where it gathered more
history hosting many of he top bands of the 70s and 80s on their way up the charts. B-52,
Talkiing Heads, Thompson Twins, Simple Minds, Psychedelic Furs, The Cure, The Pogues,
and on and on and on. The theater was brought back to life in the early 80s, then taken
over by Belkins, then House of Blues, before being left alone.

I go in there all the time, bone dry, pretty clean, and if they tore down the building behind
it which has set empty for almost a decade, it would be a viable cornerstone to the entire
Ward 4 community. At the same time there was a small group that had incredible plans
and vision for the venue, and they were turned down by an economic development group
in Lakewood as it was not a guarantee, and the city seemed very uninterested in bringing
in this world famous project into the area.

.

[marklingm]

From City Hall:

From: Tuttle, Michael [mailto:Michael.Tuttle@lakewoodoh.net]
Sent: Friday, October 11, 2013 1:03 PM
To: Tuttle, Michael
Subject: FW: Hilliard Square Theater




The Hilliard Square Theater has been deemed a nuisance by the city. Inspectors found 74 major violations including huge holes in the roof. Demolition will probably soon follow. The City hopes to save the apartment building facing Madison.
Mike

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[Meg Ostrowski]

Sad news indeed.

I was hoping for something like the Penn Theater in Plymouth, MI. There is very little dedicated parking but the place is packed on the weekends and moviegoers walk/bike in from the surrounding neighborhoods.

http://www.penntheatre.com/index.html

$3.00 tickets, $1.50 concessions, volunteer staff (opportunities for ages 14+)...clean, safe, affordable fun.

[Betsy Voinovich]

Sad news indeed.

I was hoping for something like the Penn Theater in Plymouth, MI. There is very little dedicated parking but the place is packed on the weekends and moviegoers walk/bike in from the surrounding neighborhoods.

http://www.penntheatre.com/index.html

$3.00 tickets, $1.50 concessions, volunteer staff (opportunities for ages 14+)...clean, safe, affordable fun.

Meg--

Thanks for this very inspiring example of what can happen when a city and a community get together to take care of themselves. Plymouth wanted to keep a theater where people could walk to the movies-- where their teenagers could have their first dates, where they could preserve some history, and have something really cool for their town. A place to rent out for big events, where their community orchestra plays, where classes are held, a showplace for their community. It's extremely successful.

Something could happen like say, Dru Siley, Lakewood's planning director, Ian Andrews the head of our Economic Development Corporation LakewoodAlive and maybe Tom Einhouse who is a School Board member but also has a background in taking care of beautiful old theaters, could get together with the community leaders in Plymouth and see how they did it. There could be a relationship with the Lakewood library where an actual theater could be used to show their magnificent movies instead of the uncomfortable steel chairs and the tiny screen in the basement. The Beck Center could make the theater and annex to all of their fantastic programming, and have a showplace for their fundraisers.

If you read back in this thread you see that those who know--like Glenn Palmer-- say that the building we have with the Hilliard theater is very solid-- it's the roof that's in trouble-- and as for parking-- The Silver Coast or whatever it's called seems an excellent candidate for demolition. (In Plymouth they actually walk to their theater.)

If Drug Mart and the City of Lakewood could decide that it was best for the health of the new Drug Mart to tear down the really nice, renovated, fully occupied apartment that made such a graceful entryway to Grace and Cohasset so Drug Mart could have a big enough parking lot because they didn't have (or have to pay for) a basement---- maybe they could decide it was best to tear down the Silver Coast or whatever for parking for a community movie theater, meeting space, classroom etc.

I think what Glenn Palmer is saying is that the residents have to bend over backwards (or forward) over and over. We hear things like "nothing can be done about the Detroit theater" when it becomes clear that McDonald's was offered a trade to get that nasty fast food business away from those expensive new condos and have a place for Nature's Bin to go. Good for everybody! Except for those of us who loved having a Lakewood movie theater, and the residents of those streets where the Detroit Theater used to be who could easily calculate the loss of value to their houses and street as a whole now that they are inundated with a constant stream of cars and grease 7 days a week.

So what's the real deal regarding the Hilliard Theater? Who is waiting for it to get to the state that we could wring our hands and say, "Nothing could be done!" Councilman Ed FitzGerald is in on the Observation Deck-- more than 5 years ago-- saying, "Let's do something here!"

What happened to that attitude? Why the inferiority complex that Lakewood just has to take what it can get-- as we watch what could be community assets turn into-- what? What's on the slate for the space where the Hilliard theater is now? Who is rubbing their hands over that space and waiting until it's too late? Office Max? I guess it would be better than another Dollar Store.

I guess Lakewood doesn't have any angels.

I have heard that there's a movement afoot to turn it into the David Lynch museum. Not sure whether it would need a roof for that.

Betsy Voinovich


I'm going to cut and paste some of your link into this thread so no effort whatsoever has to be made to understand.

The Penn Theater

Located in the heart of downtown Plymouth, the historic Penn Theatre seats 402 and offers a unique single-screen cinema experience featuring current second run movies, independent films, classic film festivals, school field trips, occasional live musical performances and facility rentals for community groups and corporate events (dates subject to availability). The Penn Theatre is managed by the Friends of the Penn, a federally recognized non-profit organization.

The Penn Theatre relies on community volunteers to assist with operations. Volunteer opportunities for anyone 14 years or older include: Ticket Sales, Ushering, and helping at the Concession Counter. If you would like to volunteer your time in support of the Penn Theatre operations, please fill out and submit the form below. We will contact you with more information. Thanks for your support of the Penn Theatre!

The Penn has stood the test of time, surviving the advent of “a television in every living room” and the appearance of movies in VHS and DVD format. Over the next 58 years the theatre changed ownership several times but dedicated projectionist, Lloyd Oliver, “the voice of the Penn”, remained a constant at 760 Penniman Avenue until it closed its doors in late 2003 for “remodeling”. The Penn remained closed through 2004 with its fate uncertain.

In February of 2005, the Friends of the Penn was organized by a group of local residents who were concerned about the future of the historic Penn Theatre and the impact its closing has had on the community. Through a survey conducted in April, 2005, the group received an overwhelming response from the community in support of re-opening the Penn. The issue of procuring $1.2 M to purchase the building remained a stumbling block, however.

Penn Theatre 2006

In December of 2005, when it looked like all hope was lost, a group of local businessmen formed Penn Theatre Realty, LLC and purchased the building from its current owners. This wonderful group of “angels” unselfishly decided to lease the building to Friends of the Penn for $1/year.

Since reopening in September 2006, the Friends of the Penn volunteers have logged over 22,000 hours and welcomed in excess of 287,000 patrons (as of May, 2013).

[Terry Tekushan]

Greetings. I was asked by Bob Dobush, the theater owner, if I could post a few remarks on his behalf on the LO Observation Deck, as he's been unable to reset his password for some time. I said, "Certainly." As long as he didn't call me names or something in the remarks.
The following are his remarks:

I'm writing to clarify some points about the theatre building I own on Hilliard and Madison.  First of all,  the building was never "left to rot" as one writer mentioned. I am simply one man who has tried for 12 years to keep the building as good as possible on a limited budget.  This building costs $25K a year just for taxes and utilities, and I am up to date on all.  I would call that some sort of determination, anyway.  Also, one poster mentioned "74 major violations" - that should read "74 violations" as most are minor things like an empty propane container in building, missing or cracked outlet cover, and things like that.  And the man who wrote " I am tired of reading about the theater - just tear it down" makes me wonder why he clicks on the topic!! 
I also will point out that the parking lot was not sold by a previous owner but the 75 year lease for adjacent property was cancelled somehow so the Silver Coast apts. could be built.
     I have tried as much as possible to keep the property up with limited funds and manpower - it might be interesting to note that in the 12 years I have owned this property there have been a total of 5 police visits and only one complaint from a tenant to the bldg. dept. - (a disgruntled tenant) .  It is upsetting to me that anyone would paint my efforts as that of an uninterested slumlord.  I am  there almost every night and it is I who picks up the oil filters and other debris around the building, takes the trash dutifully to the landfill since I had the trash pickup taken away a while ago, and also I stayed at the building during the 4 days of no power from Hurrican Sandy - (the storm that did the major damage to the already old roof). 
      4 years ago, there was a  death in the family which changed my life appreciably.   With this added responsibility, I am very distressed time and income -wise. Still I have done all I can to try my best regarding the building.  I am in talks with the city and  hope that something can be figured out for the best.  The building has been declared a "nuisance"  and the possibility of a demo is very real.  However, there is interest in saving at least the Madison Ave. side with the apts. and storefronts, and many calls (since the notices were pasted all over my building) to try to save the entire structure.   The next week or two is very pivotal to this structure - until then, I will be careful to be respectful to all including the city officials who I am in talks with.  I also expect the parties concerned will also be respectful to me -  including the public at large who might  want to post info or opinions about this unfortunate situation.    thanks , bob d.

[Betsy Voinovich]

Greetings. I was asked by Bob Dobush, the theater owner, if I could post a few remarks on his behalf on the LO Observation Deck, as he's been unable to reset his password for some time. I said, "Certainly." As long as he didn't call me names or something in the remarks.
The following are his remarks:

I'm writing to clarify some points about the theatre building I own on Hilliard and Madison.  First of all,  the building was never "left to rot" as one writer mentioned. I am simply one man who has tried for 12 years to keep the building as good as possible on a limited budget.  This building costs $25K a year just for taxes and utilities, and I am up to date on all.  I would call that some sort of determination, anyway.  Also, one poster mentioned "74 major violations" - that should read "74 violations" as most are minor things like an empty propane container in building, missing or cracked outlet cover, and things like that.  And the man who wrote " I am tired of reading about the theater - just tear it down" makes me wonder why he clicks on the topic!! 
I also will point out that the parking lot was not sold by a previous owner but the 75 year lease for adjacent property was cancelled somehow so the Silver Coast apts. could be built.
     I have tried as much as possible to keep the property up with limited funds and manpower - it might be interesting to note that in the 12 years I have owned this property there have been a total of 5 police visits and only one complaint from a tenant to the bldg. dept. - (a disgruntled tenant) .  It is upsetting to me that anyone would paint my efforts as that of an uninterested slumlord.  I am  there almost every night and it is I who picks up the oil filters and other debris around the building, takes the trash dutifully to the landfill since I had the trash pickup taken away a while ago, and also I stayed at the building during the 4 days of no power from Hurrican Sandy - (the storm that did the major damage to the already old roof). 
      4 years ago, there was a  death in the family which changed my life appreciably.   With this added responsibility, I am very distressed time and income -wise. Still I have done all I can to try my best regarding the building.  I am in talks with the city and  hope that something can be figured out for the best.  The building has been declared a "nuisance"  and the possibility of a demo is very real.  However, there is interest in saving at least the Madison Ave. side with the apts. and storefronts, and many calls (since the notices were pasted all over my building) to try to save the entire structure.   The next week or two is very pivotal to this structure - until then, I will be careful to be respectful to all including the city officials who I am in talks with.  I also expect the parties concerned will also be respectful to me -  including the public at large who might  want to post info or opinions about this unfortunate situation.    thanks , bob d.

Bob,

Thank you so much for posting this, and clarifying the situation. It sounds like you have been working hard to maintain this property-- waiting for angels, or a group of people, Historical Society, Economic Development group, etc, that could put together a coalition to do something very positive here.

Thank you for clarifying the fact that you did not willingly "sell the parking lot" but the 75 year lease on the adjacent property was "somehow" canceled, so that the fabulous Silver Coast apartments could be built.

The biggest point of clarification, you did not "leave it to rot." The really bad damage to the roof was from Hurricane Sandy! Last year! Like the damage to a lot of our roofs.

This property has been mischaracterized. I hope that people read about the Plymouth theater and realize that we ARE that kind of town. We would support a safe, fun, beautiful place where our kids could go to movies-- film festivals, Halloween scare-a-thons, and Chritmas classic movie weeks and take classes, and a gorgeous showpiece of architecture we could use to show off our city for fundraisers and galas and show how forward-thinking and together we are-- capable of putting resources together to do something really impressive and beautiful that attracts new residents and tourists alike.

My kids and I would put our time in there on the door or selling concessions or running play-writing workshops for kids. That's one family. We don't have a lot of money but we have a lot of energy and a lot of skills and a lot of love for our town. I know 19 or 20 more families like that off the top of my head.

Betsy Voinovich

[Jim O'Bryan]

[
$10 million is what the City spent on the fire department overtime scam. Perhaps if previous administrations paid more attention to business we would have the money but they didn't and we don't.

Bill Call - Others

This is not true, Bill knows it, and was using it as a generality, a broad sweeping brush to
mean THAT IN HIS OPINION, the city has squandered money foolishly, and that had other
administrations possibly run a tighter ship in all regards the city might have had money.

As for any overtime scam with the Fire Department, Chief Larry Mroz, Fire Inspector at the
time now Fire Chief Scott Gilman, Mayor Tom George, Law Director Brian Corrigan, asst
Law Director Tom Corrigan, and Finance Director Vic Nogalo sat down with Bill Call and I
about 7 years ago, when Bill had made similar claims.

They opened their books to us, and spent hours with us explaining in great detail where
damn near every penny of overtime was spent, and how and why. The single two biggest
problems with overtime in the Lakewood Fire Department were 1) The Medical Leave Act,
which neither Lakewood Fire Department, not any other city can change. Which if I
remember was how many sick days they get a year. SOME not all fireman were just like
SOME not all workers in counting on sick days as added vacation days. As there are limits
on how many fireman they keep on staff, and because they try to run a tight ship, which
they proved, when a fireman calls in sick, another gets called in, and that is overtime, as
argued by the union, and would be also the same in many non-union jobs.

Number 2, was the way Fire fighters are hired, and possibly Police as well. They take Civil
Service Exams like they do for the Postal Service. But as the Fire Department and maybe
the police department need physically fit workers, and in the case of fire need to carry a
200 dummy 300 yards etc, they have to take a physical test. That test is only offered twice
a year. So that it is possible that a trim financially frugal department could end up with one
or two firefighters reaching retiring and take I think as many as 8 months to fill the
position. Which also means 8 months of overtime for people.

When you add all of this together, you end up with massive overtime. The flip side is, to
hire more, ads to the long term bottom line with benefits and pension. Fire Chief Gilman
as Asst Fire Chief, and as our current Fire Chief, has worked hard to make sure the
department is run in a frugal way that does not undermine our safety. This is a driving
factor with Scott I know. All of the equipment the department has secured recently is
through his tireless efforts to find grants, programs and matching funds.

As we left City Hall that day, Bill turned to me and said, "You know these guys really are
trying hard, and seem to know where every penny goes and why." To paraphrase.

This is why I posted, this is why I called this out.

And I spoke with Bill, I know he merely meant it as a metaphor not a statement of fact.

Because it was not true.

Carry on wasting energy on another project that was cared about far to late.

At some point, maybe the city will realize we have a great theater, a couple of them. Some
of them stay solvent and deserve our support and would be easy to make better.

peace

[Bill Call]

[
$10 million is what the City spent on the fire department overtime scam. Perhaps if previous administrations paid more attention to business we would have the money but they didn't and we don't.

Bill Call - Others

This is not true, Bill knows it, and was using it as a generality, a broad sweeping brush to
mean THAT IN HIS OPINION, the city has squandered money foolishly, and that had other
administrations possibly run a tighter ship in all regards the city might have had money.

As for any overtime scam with the Fire Department, Chief Larry Mroz, Fire Inspector at the
time now Fire Chief Scott Gilman, Mayor Tom George, Law Director Brian Corrigan, asst
Law Director Tom Corrigan, and Finance Director Vic Nogalo sat down with Bill Call and I
about 7 years ago, when Bill had made similar claims.

They opened their books to us, and spent hours with us explaining in great detail where
damn near every penny of overtime was spent, and how and why. The single two biggest
problems with overtime in the Lakewood Fire Department were 1) The Medical Leave Act,
which neither Lakewood Fire Department, not any other city can change. Which if I
remember was how many sick days they get a year. SOME not all fireman were just like
SOME not all workers in counting on sick days as added vacation days. As there are limits
on how many fireman they keep on staff, and because they try to run a tight ship, which
they proved, when a fireman calls in sick, another gets called in, and that is overtime, as

Here are the overtime hours used information provided by the City at that time:

1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
Fire 3492.5 4568.5 4510.25 7701.5 8837.5 9023.5
Police 3130.25 4090.67 2570.5 2897.75 3264.75 2500
EMS NA 588 1140 1048 1416 854

There was a 260% INCREASE in fire department overtime from 1999 to 2004.

Police department sick time DECREASED by 20% during the same period.

Did the family medical leave act apply to the Police Department?

I haven't looked at the numbers since Mayor Fitzgerald made changes to the minimum manning requirements. Has any one else?

Just asking questions.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Here are the overtime hours used information provided by the City at that time:

1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004
Fire 3492.5 4568.5 4510.25 7701.5 8837.5 9023.5
Police 3130.25 4090.67 2570.5 2897.75 3264.75 2500
EMS NA 588 1140 1048 1416 854

There was a 260% INCREASE in fire department overtime from 1999 to 2004.

Police department sick time DECREASED by 20% during the same period.

Did the family medical leave act apply to the Police Department?

I haven't looked at the numbers since Mayor Fitzgerald made changes to the minimum manning requirements. Has any one else?

Just asking questions.

Bill

I am reporting on what we found out during that meeting, and when we looked into this.

As you well know we backed you on you look into this problem, and it was a problem.
Overtime looked out of control. All you and i looked at was the Fire Department, and if
I remember correctly we found out that there is a different physical exam for fire than
police. I could be wrong, but I thought it was like dragging a 200 pound dummy our
of the 4th floor of the fire tower, and some other "dead man carries." However I could be
wrong, it has been some time.

Bill, in you job did you ever consider "sick days" "off or vacation days" that you are entitled
to? I know I often did when working for others, and never while working for myself. I do
know many, many people that look at a full contract and add them together as their days
off. However it was not rampant, it was not organized, and it was not everyone.

Also if I remember correctly the period of time they eagerly brought to the table for
discussion that day, which I think was the prior 3 years, had a large amount of retirements
and turnover, that really played heavily into the hiring practices.

You know my opinion on this. I am pro Fire and pro Police, I believe the two of the three most important services a city needs to deliver, the other being cleanliness. As such I
believe they do work directly for us, and should be willing to answer questions. On the
day, you threatened to sue the city on behalf of the Lakewood Observer, they came, they
shared time facts, and stayed until everyone of our questions were answered to your and
my satisfaction.

So I suppose what caught my eye was the term,
"$10 million is what the City spent on the fire department overtime scam. Perhaps if previous administrations paid more attention to business we would have the money but they didn't and we don't."

There was no Fire Department Overtime Scam. And as I believe we have reported overtime
has fallen, and come in line, and it would seem the current management at the Fire
Department has dedicated his life to updating our equipment with outside funding to make
our tax dollars go farther.

Also I am going to move this to another thread so that this goes back to the Hillard Theater
aka Westwood Arts Theater discussion, because I do have some views on that which I
hopes sheds some light on it and other projects in this city.

Let's be honest, you would be livid if the city would have saved $10 million on overtime
to give to a privately owned theater, or for that matter a city owned theater. That would
be crazier than putting $100+ million into 6 tiny blocks of Lakewood.

.

[marklingm]

I am reporting on what we found out during that meeting, and when we looked into this.

Journalism in the ‘Wood may not be dead after all.

[marklingm]

Also I am going to move this to another thread so that this goes back to the Hillard Theater aka Westwood Arts Theater discussion, because I do have some views on that which I hopes sheds some light on it and other projects in this city.

Jim,

I would suggest keeping this discussion on this thread and also creating a new thread with a cut-and-paste of the relevant posts contained herein.

Perhaps even bump the older thread(s) speaking about the issue you and Bill are now discussing?

Maybe even bump the Cleveland Clinic thread(s), too?

Matt

[Jim O'Bryan]

Also I am going to move this to another thread so that this goes back to the Hillard Theater aka Westwood Arts Theater discussion, because I do have some views on that which I hopes sheds some light on it and other projects in this city.

Jim,

I would suggest keeping this discussion on this thread and also creating a new thread with a cut-and-paste of the relevant posts contained herein.

Perhaps even bump the older thread(s) speaking about the issue you and Bill are now discussing?

Maybe even bump the Cleveland Clinic thread(s), too?

Matt

Matt

I am not sure they are relevant, and I might cut and paste later, as I understand what you
are saying,keeping threads whole.

However I would hate to see a good waste of energy and resources ruined by Bill and I
recalling the past, and what might have been before the Observer.

The very real fact is, Lakewood or any community should not need gate keepers on the
truth or views in a community. A healthy community, like a healthy family or friendship
should be able to watch out for themselves, and understand, sticks and stones may hurt
your bones, but names and words will never hurt you.

The city, state, country, world needs to get back to serious civic discourse.

.