New Curfew Law

[Joe Ott]

I agree with both Jeff AND Dave.

Go back a number of pages where I asked Demro if he plans to post the entire police dept out side the stadium and catch all the curfew breakers after games. I also asked about prom and after graduating HS and my kids will be entering college. By son, remember to be in your room by 11:00...

16 year olds can get drivers licenses (but they don't have to know how to drive them-I won't go there...). I guess we consider them responsible enough to pilot a 2 ton vehicle down the road at 60+ mph (but not be taught how to drive it, darn I said I wouldn't go there...) but not stay out at night?

I have mixed feelings about this 'look I did something' law. I agree, kids have no business being out late. At what age do you draw the line? I think the answer lies with parenting. I think that is the root cause of a lot of our societies problems...

45000 people die every year in the US due to vehicle accidents. Uhg. Must resist... not going there, not gonna do it...

I still have never rec'd a reply either by the way. I call those drive-by-posts.

[David Lay]

Thirty new police might send out a signal, stay out of Lakewood if you are a criminal. It reduces the burden on the courts.

Agreed.

[Kenneth Warren]

Ms. O'Malley:

I did not pass the curfew law.

The cost/fee questions I raised are rather obvious, when it comes to these quality of life impositions and attempts to get the attention of parents.

You ask: "Is that your motivation? To drive "undesirables" out of Lakewood?"

My motivation is a safe and orderly social norm.

If you regard me as an elitist, that's your choice.

My inquiry involved implementation and expected results - how police, courts and offenders.....

That's all.

Kenneth Warren

[Jeff Endress]

What I find quite interesting is the interplay between the two threads....this one, and the "crime in Lakewood" thread. When some of us are talking about the need for additional safety forces, there is a response of "maybe, but let's see the data".

And yet, I guess it was Okay to change the curfew without that requirement. Why is it important to examine the hard data, beyond observation and anecdote when we talk about increasing safety forces, but somehow, when we clamp down on kids and curfew, there was no need for the "data" to justify it?

I'm sure someone will say it's a matter of money....but where is the data that shows what the cost of enforcing the curfew is going to be? Seems like we have a bit of a double standard going on here.

Jeff

[Ryan Salo]

One thing I have not seen discussed here is the issue of parental permission. I believe this law allows minors to be out past the curfew with parental permission. I have not seen the entire law, but I assume that a permission slip of sorts would be required.

Remember this is not a new law, just an updated one. I think that we needed to do it to keep up with Cleveland's law change. Someone mentioned before that this is sort of like the broken tail lights law. I don't see the courthouse getting packed with people with broken tail lights, it is just an excuse to pull someone over.

Lets not go overboard on this issue, aren't there a lot more important things to discuss?

[Joe Ott]

Someone mentioned before that this is sort of like the broken tail lights law.

Same as kids are required to wear helmets (and should be made to) on bikes. When is the last time you saw a policeman stop a kid not wearing a helmet?

But still, if your kid graduated high school and is 17 and is entering college in the fall, he/she has to be in by 11:00? He's old enough to drive, old enough to join the army blah blah blah, but has to be in by 11:00?

Doesn't seem reasonable somehow. I don't think it's about age. It's about parenting.

[Ryan Salo]

I don't think it's about age. It's about parenting.

Isn't that what the parental permission part is about? If you are responsible parent your kids can stay out past with a note from you. I am not sure how that will be enforced, but it does allow responsible kids to stay out later.

[Jeff Endress]

It'll probably have to be notarized.....

Probably some kids would write the note themselves! GASP!

Jeff

[Danielle Masters]

Same as kids are required to wear helmets (and should be made to) on bikes. When is the last time you saw a policeman stop a kid not wearing a helmet?

Mine got "pulled over" last week for wearing theirs. They were so excited.

As for the curfew law. I grew up in a city with one, no big deal. Unfortunately we do have some parents that don't care to parent, maybe this will make them keep a better eye on their kids.

[Grace O'Malley]

Why is it important to examine the hard data, beyond observation and anecdote when we talk about increasing safety forces, but somehow, when we clamp down on kids and curfew, there was no need for the "data" to justify it?

I HAVE asked for justification for the more restrictive curfew and not one councilperson has responded.

Passing a curfew is easy; kids don't vote.

Does anyone really believe that an irresponsible parent will suddenly become concerned about where their children are just because of the curfew?

Heck, I bet 90% of parents in Lakewood have NO idea there IS a new curfew; its not like they publicized it.

[Rick Uldricks]

deleted

[dl meckes]

I haven't seen the language of the ordinance in any local newspapers and it hasn't been submitted to any part of the online Lakewood Observer.

However, I just looked at the city's website and found it:

Pursuant to Section 509.12 of the Lakewood Codified Ordinances, children ages 14 and under are not permiteed on streets, sidewaks or any public property between the hours of 9:30 PM and 6:00 AM. Children age 15 are not permitted on streets, sidewalks or any public property between the hours of 10:00 PM and 6:00 AM. Children ages 16 and 17 are not permitted on streets sidewalks or any public property between the hours of 11:00 PM and 6:00 AM.

Children out during these restricted hours will be subject to citiation for curfew violation. Parents are also subject to be cited for allowing their children to be out during restricted times.

It doesn't mention what the citations are, whether or not there's a fine, etc.

I don't see any language regarding kids on their way home from work or from school events. I assume this means that the LPD has some discretion in how it enforces the law and I feel fairly certain that they aren't going to be rounding up every juvenile in sight during the restricted hours, particularly to the exclusion of looking at anything else.

[Ryan Salo]

DL,

I just spoke with one of the police Captains, he mentioned that they are using common sense about who to cite and who not to. I guess one of the kids that was "tagging" houses with spray paint was picked up on a curfew check and his mom has to go to court and pay a fine. I would assume that if a parent gets a couple of tickets they will "tighten the chain" on their kids. He said that they know about most big events and will not ticket every kid coming out of a football game

From my conversation it seems like he likes the freedom this change gives them and they will use it to help them find real criminals.

[Grace O'Malley]

Wouldn't a kid spray painting a house or committing another act of vandalism be picked up at any time of day or night?

Seriously, the curfew law means nothing in this case. If you're up to no good, you can be detained at 3PM.

I really don't see how the curfew law affects policing. If you are committing a crime, the police can apprehend you, right? Makes no difference how old you are or what time of day. So how did the curfew law make any difference in the decision to arrest or charge the perpetrator?

[Dan Lotz]

When a squad car pulls someone over for not using a turn signal at 4am on Detroit Rd, it gives them the opportunity to run the plates, check for warrants, explore for driving under intoxication, even check the car for illegal items/contraban if this becomes suspected. Many times it never needs to get this far, but it gives the officer the discretionary opportunity only possile because the officer is able to pull someone over for not using a turn signal.

I suspect the curfew law is intended to serve the same purpose--to give our officers one more layer of fighting/preventing crime, by identifying youth who may have outstanding warrants, who may be in possession of drugs or weapons, or at least to identify youth who are unruly and/or lack responsible caregivers and who would then be referred to Lakewood Youth Services or possibly teh county's child welfare system. The police can at least track these kids in a database and identify repeat-offenders, get descriptions, fingerprints, etc, for future investigations as needed.

And in most cases, as in the former example, usually the officer does not cite you for the turn signal.