The Observation Deck

My daughters don't they have gone up behind a few boys and pulled their pants up.

Does anyone know what was going on in front of Madison Library last night.
There were four police cruisers and bunch of kids out front.

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Rick Uldricks wrote:

Beajay Michaud wrote:
Does anyone know what was going on in front of Madison Library last night.
There were four police cruisers and bunch of kids out front.

I'd like to know also, since the house I'm not selling is near the library-- FACTS ONLY please.

I hope you are a very patient person.

Mr. Ulricks:

This event did not occur inside Madison Branch Library. Nor on library property. I have not seen the police report. So my information needs to be confirmed.

Here is a synopsis of what Branch Manager Judy Gryzbowski could tell me about an incident that occurred in the vicinity of the Branch, but again neither inside nor on library property.

Crowd of punks gathered in front of Madison Park.

Trash talk. No fight. No Blood.

Mother feels daughter talked to inappropriately.

Threatened trash talkers to get sons to defend daughter.

Someone calls police.

Nobody enters Madison Branch to call police.

Off-duty policeman at Madison Branch Library hears incident over radio, and steps outside to assist.

Police separate groups in front of Madison Park and sit them on the two benches outside Madison Branch Library.

One kid is talked to a police car.

While I have not seen the police report, my second-hand source informs me a large knife found in pants of one kid. Again cannot confirm. I have no report from the library, because the event did not occur in the library or on library property.

Please note that an off-duty police officer was inside Madison Branch at the time, and available to assist outside in the matter.

Kenneth Warren
Director
Lakewood Public Library

Ken,

Thanks for clearing that up. Its much better than what my daughter heard from some kids that were there in the midst of it all.

Bea

Thanks for clearing that up. Its much better than what my daughter heard from some kids that were there in the midst of it all.

So Ken is merely relaying what a worker INSIDE the library said happened and Beejay says her daughter heard from kids who were there and had a differing account.

What that tells me, and what I already knew, is that much of what passes for truth is, in fact, hearsay. While not discounting that an incident occurred, the details and significance can vary greatly based on your own perspective.

I'm quite sure that both parties who relayed information on what they saw and heard were honestly telling of their experience. But as any lawyer knows, ask two eyewitnesses to an accident "what happened?" and you're likely to get two very different stories.

And therein lies the problem. The story spreads and soon everyone is talking about the increase in crime; then it leads to people thinking crime is a serious problem because everyone is talking about it.

That's why, in spite of those who protest otherwise, I'd like to know if crime has REALLY increased or if we're just talking about it more. As of this point, no one can point to any concrete evidence that crime is out of control in Lakewood.

Does Lakewood report to the FBI's UCR or NIBRS?

Ms. O'Malley:

I appreciate your care for facts and scrutiny of hearsay. In this instance, I tried to supply the best intelligence I available to me, especially because the question involved Lakewood Public Library. Judy Gryzbowski, my source communicated with the off-duty police officer who stepped outside and advised her of his understanding of the situation.

That's all I have right now. Again I have not seen the police report.

As we know, there are - how many - stories in the Naked City?


Kenneth Warren
Director
Lakewood Public Library

[quote="Grace O'Malley"]That's why, in spite of those who protest otherwise, I'd like to know if crime has REALLY increased or if we're just talking about it more. As of this point, no one can point to any concrete evidence that crime is out of control in Lakewood.
[quote]

Who said "crime is out of control in Lakewood?"

Saying there is an increase and saying it is out of control are two very different statements.

Councilman Demro:

The question of unintended consequences has been raised.

Do you have any expectations/preferences concerning how curfew violations will be handled in court?

How stiff the fines for the first timer?

How stiff for repeat offenders?

Will fines cost parents so much it becomes too expensive to stay in Lakewood?

What happens when pleas of not guilty mount, and possibly choke the court and time banks of officers?

Kenneth Warren

Good questions. Follow up for clarification, shouldn't the fines be a significant enough deterent so that parent of violators can't afford to allow continued violations? Wouldn't this be the motivation to have parents assist in the enforcement?
This is of course assuming that those violating the curfew aren't paying their own fines.

Ya, right.

Let's jump all over those kids; those curfew violators.

Let's spend all the time effort, and money on some kids out late while REAL criminals can continue to do as they please.

As long as the police are being paid by MY tax dollars, I'd think a better use of my money would be to investigate, arrest, and prosecute the DANGEROUS criminal activity in the city.

If juveniles are engaging in criminal behavior, the police have the authority to arrest or detain at ANY time ofthe day or night. The laws are already in place.


Ken Warren

Will fines cost parents so much it becomes too expensive to stay in Lakewood?

Is that your motivation? To drive "undesirables" out of Lakewood?
Do you equate a curfew violation with robbery or selling drugs?

It should not be a crime for a 17 year old to be on the street at 11:15PM. This is America, not a third world dictatorship.

There are already laws on the books to deal with criminal activity regardless of age.

Your elitism is showing and its not pretty.

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Grace O'Malley wrote: It should not be a crime for a 17 year old to be on the street at 11:15PM. This is America, not a third world dictatorship.

A child has no place being on the street at 11:15PM.

A child has no place being on the street at 11:15PM

Agreed, but is a seventeen year old High School senior a "child".

Jeff

David Lay wrote:

Grace O'Malley wrote: It should not be a crime for a 17 year old to be on the street at 11:15PM. This is America, not a third world dictatorship.

A child has no place being on the street at 11:15PM.

While "Elitism" seems a little over the top. I have to agree with Grace on this version of house arrest for law abiding citizens. When we punish all for the ill deeds of a few, it does not feel like America.

Seems like one of those good ideas! That are not.

I would love to see the numbers that backed up this "change."

At what age do you have to cover legal identification?

How do we have these kids prove their ages?

Do police, that are on other nuisance calls, have to take time off from that to call parents or drive kids home to then wrote tickets.

We have called for homeowners to go to court for run down homes, and want that increased, rightfully so. The courts are filled with criminals, rightfully so, now throw on nuisance, and curfews and I begin to see a legal system very over worked.

Ken

On one hand I can see the numbers for more police mean more court cases. The math seems simple, more police more tickets. This scenario also puts a massive strain on the courts, so the a police levy would mean more money needed for court and jails. Mention jails and cost goes through the roof. Home many criminals sit in jail instead of bonding out? Maybe Jeff has numbers for this. Then the strain on probation officers, court workers, social workers. It seems like a never ending spiral.

Or

Thirty new police might send out a signal, stay out of Lakewood if you are a criminal. It reduces the burden on the courts.

.