The Observation Deck

Thanks Stephen for locating that “color surveyâ€￾ thread. Just don't tell me it wasn't tampered with. It was. Several really offensive posts were removed from that thread. And that thread was moved at least twice, it started out as a normal thread, then became an announcement when someone removed the offensive posts, and is now again a normal thread.

So what has happened here on the Deck is that the OP started a couple threads to introduce a hometown project and solicit input, but both threads took a decidedly nasty turn, so the OP said to heck with it and stopped posting. Then, the nastiest of the posts were removed by the moderator without any mention or apology. Then more posts appeared questioning the judgment of the OP, wondering why she won't post, and calling HER rude and disrespectful. Comical!

It's far worse that what happened in the early days of the Deck when Schroeder was belittled for a project he proposed. At least his threads weren't tampered with. But he has not made one post since and I don't blame him. Nobody needs to come on here, well-intentioned, and be abused. Folks like that need our support. But this is worse because the most abusive posts were quietly removed and the OP hung out to dry. I believe there should be an apology. Or at least put the offensive posts back into that other thread so all can see what REALLY happened. I don't think it's right to remove only some posts from a thread. Either leave it be or remove the entire thread.

Tim, Tim, Tim

The conversation between Stephen Eisel and myself were removed when he started indicating through "clickys" everyone that did not agree with the signs were asses. As usual I try to defend all, in this case members of the Deck and Mary Ann that was asking for some serious information. Every one of those messages are now in a thread called "Eisel/Obryan should we call haters asses" or something like that.

As you brought up Mark Schoeder let me clear this one up as it underlines the power and openness of this Project. Mark was trying to create a "third place" at the skate park. A very noble idea, and everyone at the LO was behind it and we had him post and write articles for the paper. As it progressed it became he wanted the city, the historical society, others to pay for a coffee shop in the historical society's barn. The two biggest problems then became the cost and that the historical society wanted to retain the property.

One afternoon while some of us were speaking with Mark he mentioned his frustration and how we needed to get it done, as he had figured himself to run it for six figures a year. Everyone at the table offered to do it for six figures. At that point it became a huge uphill battle for all.

No matter, even when we became doubtful it got the full support of the Observer, but citizens and Observers were allowed to comment. Also from those comments came a place to get the equipment for free, offers for other places in the city, people willing to help and work, etc.

Tim, as you are a software developer as well, I have to think that over the course of a year, you find ideas that work, some that could work, some that cost too much, and some that are just not worth the thought. I would think that many of the vetting came from others from a cross section of humanity. Just recently we scrapped all sorts of code and direction when one voice came in from outside my circle, and gave us a complete new way to think of things. Was a pain in my butt, cost me money, set me back, I fought for my way, but in the end, i saw the light and will be better in the long run for it.

This is the power of the deck, opinions from all over, knowledgeable people, less knowledgeable people, families, single people, upper middle class, lower middle class, financially secure and section 8. The one thing in common is all live here and love Lakewood. All of their opinions become valuable. One voice, one seat, All of us equal. Some are not comfortable with that. Some think to actually deal with the populace is beneath them, it is akin to "babysitting." Myself I find wealth everywhere, from the mouths of babes, sometimes comes gems, gold and damn good ideas.

Tim I met you at the start of BikeLakewood, we often differ in opinion and ways to do things. Again I prefer private funding for one. Still I believe you understand I both support your efforts and am proud at any small part the LO has played in it. You have been solid, and a solid member of the LO Family.

Thank you for your posting, stories and participation.


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Grace O'Malley wrote:While you feel comfortable signing up for e-mailings and searching for sites on Google, not everyone does nor do they have the time to search specific web sites looking for information that is often difficult to locate even on well designed sites, much the less on poorly designed sites.

Personally, I don’t feel that comfortable signing up for a bunch of email lists. Outside of a few work related things, I’m signed up for Dictionary.com word of the day, the Lakewood balanced budget email and Lakewood city news. That’s it.

Anyway everyone is missing the point. I don’t need a marketing lesson. It’s not about getting info on your own. It’s all about whether a leader, group or cause chooses to post or not post on the Deck. It’s that simple. Please don’t make it more than this.

They post and are praised for being open and transparent

They don’t post and people wonder out loud....


Those that choose to post should be thanked for providing the info (and most are thanked) and encouraged to continue posting. This will, hopefully, get more groups and leaders involved in the Deck as they will see the benefit of doing so.

Charlie Page wrote:Those that choose to post should be thanked for providing the info (and most are thanked) and encouraged to continue posting. This will, hopefully, get more groups and leaders involved in the Deck as they will see the benefit of doing so.

Amen

However, those that ask for LO support...

Charlie, you have become a real source of wisdom on the Deck.

thanks


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Charlie Page wrote:Those that choose to post should be thanked for providing the info (and most are thanked) and encouraged to continue posting. This will, hopefully, get more groups and leaders involved in the Deck as they will see the benefit of doing so.

Charlie,

Like this, from January, 20?

stephen davis wrote:

Mary Anne Crampton wrote:#1. Main Street Lakewood has been awarded a $23,175 grant by Heritage Ohio for a comprehensive signage and wayfinding design package for the downtown district.

#2. The much larger community-based Detroit Avenue Streetscape Plan funded by a $75,000 grant award from NOACA was completed in December of 2007.http://mainstreetlakewood.org/projects.html

#3. We were referred to Studio Graphique by two other full-service design firms. We knew their work. We picked Studio Graphique. We negotiated with SG to get fees/services to fit the grant award. Please go to http://www.lakewoodalive.com for more on Studio Graphique:Lakewood Connection.

Lakewood Alive was LCPI. Scroll down this page for details. http://www.lakewoodalive.com/news/archi ... chive.html
LakewoodAlive is using the volunteer-based National Main Street Program to revitalize downtown Lakewood: http://www.mainstreet.org/content.aspx?page=3&section=2

The 2007 LCPI Annual Report can is located at the bottom of this page:
http://mainstreetlakewood.org/

A 2008 LakewoodAlive Annual Report will be available in early February. It will be posted on our website, along with other updates on this project and other activities.

Mary Anne,

Thank you for your informative post.

Steve

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Obviously, we are in agreement.


Steve


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Stephen of course those posts should have been excised from that thread. They never should have been posted there to begin with. All I am saying is that I sure can't blame anyone for not wanting to use the Deck the way the OP had intended, given what transpired. Most folks were kind and helpful but some were shrill and out of control (Jim's words, not mine). And when a little bit of understandable exasperation set in, then it really started to hit the fan.

It did hearken me back to the Park Place initiative. Suppose that one very mean-spirited poster, the one who kept referring to it sarcastically as a “coffee shopâ€￾ when most understood the concept to be much more than that, had been supportive instead of so publicly demeaning? I wonder if we'd have another wonderful civic asset, or just the rundown shack that is still there today.

I guess passion is a double-edged sword. On the one hand it can drive progress and innovation. But on the other hand I can see where all the flak can be very dispiriting. I think folks have to understand that and choose words and thoughts very carefully, especially when commenting on something in which someone is so personally invested.

Tim Liston wrote:It did hearken me back to the Park Place initiative.

Tim,

Sorry, I have NO recollection of that. I know that I was not involved. If it's ancient history, I don't even want to think about it. Time to move forward.

Steve

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I am disappointed that persistence is perceived as out of control, that if you are doing many things in a city and are older and not healthy you are perceived as not qualified to ask questions.

I am disappointed that I am accused while all I was doing was asking for information.

Don't like my style? Maybe I don't care for yours or the style of others, you don't see me calling other people names.

When you use quotes I will ask for the full statement.

When others prevaricate it is seen as acceptable, when people ask for disclosure openly in a manner that is clear and concise they are criticized.

Do some people on this Deck think that it is acceptable to marginalize some Observers because they're not part of the power structure? Is it alright for those people to be insulting and that is acceptable, while those peasants that are part of the citizenry better watch their mouths.

This is sad.

How many men have you described as being shrill Tim? Or is that another example of being out control when I ask you this question.

Tim Liston said,

I think folks have to understand that and choose words and thoughts very carefully, especially when commenting on something in which someone is so personally invested.

It is very easy, when we are not face-to-face, to go negative when we are attempting to vet ideas.

We bash the messenger, we bash the message, we bash because we're tired and there's too much snow or whatever.

It is difficult to find ways to work together and envision together. Everyone can't get to meetings so we need to find other ways to engage each other and that's a big reason for the establishment of the Observer and the Deck.

How do we get information from each other, from groups, from the city, from wherever?

What is the best way to establish transparency and cooperation? Maybe it does take a little more time to find ways to move together on projects, but building consensus and community is vital to our success.

It isn't easy to get the kind of engagement and buy-in that we need to do a really good job of things.

And yes, I agree that it would be great if we can - and I include myself in this wish - take a deep breath and remember that we are neighbors here who want good things for our city and ourselves.

Remember this?

An original question that raised eyebrows, or created a doubt in credibility was this exercise.

Take the white letters on yellow proposition above. Take the public opinion poll out of it. A design firm that was serious about solving a signage and wayfinding "problem" would not seriously consider white letters on yellow as a viable solution. The legibility is almost not there. They would present such a solution to a private client at their own peril.

Take billboards, which are scaled up by magnitudes, still have the same fundamental principles because of distance.

The Outdoor Advertising Association of America in 1928, published their findings of exhaustive research into what color combinations are the most legible on a billboard. The best colors, in order of success, indicating more maximum contrast are

1)black on yellow
2)black on white
3)yellow on black
4)white on black
5)blue on white
6)white on blue
7)white on green
8)green on white
9)red on white
10)white on red.

What this indicates is that the color combinations had less to do with thought, than to placate a semblance of giving the public a "voice." Why?

If you are an expert, at least you would think through the relative visibility and legibility piece of the equation. Does anyone here believe that the public would overwhelmingly choose white letters on yellow? Why even ask?

It goes to the larger question that is being ignored. There was no RFP and why? Is this being picky? Is it because it's donated funds, that all the detail about WHY is being overlooked?

Again, this should not be about various personalities. The process of inclusion, to DL's earlier point takes a little longer, but ultimately creates a better product. Is this project so time sensitive, that it can't vet out bad design decisions? Exploration is a natural and iterative process in ANY design - as Jim said, including software (especially software, I will add).

I guess it's just weird to not hear from LA in any way but defensively! The above example shows conclusively that there were hasty decisions with the hope that no one would spot the error.

Okay. Can that error be admitted and a new process for inclusion be considered? Or is the silent treatment the new approach to collaboration in 2009. (hint, it doesn't work). Come on LA, what's the issue with opening up?

Just an observation.


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The conversation between Stephen Eisel and myself were removed when he started indicating through "clickys" everyone that did not agree with the signs were asses.

That is only half true JOB... The a***** song was not intended for everyone who disagreed with me. It was intended for the folks who cop a negative attitude about everything that goes on Lakewood.

Stephen Eisel wrote:

The conversation between Stephen Eisel and myself were removed when he started indicating through "clickys" everyone that did not agree with the signs were asses.

That is only half true JOB... The a***** song was not intended for everyone who disagreed with me. It was intended for the folks who cop a negative attitude about everything that goes on Lakewood.

Thanks for the clarification

I rest my case.


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