The Observation Deck

Unfortunately, Rick, you are confusing incivility with crime.

While no one likes foul language, droopy drawers, and your personal favorite, sloppy neighbors, those activities are not criminal activities.

I have some, shall we say, interesting neighbors myself, but I while I personally find their behavior repugnant, I don't think it reaches the level of a crime.

Let's quit confusing a general lack of manners and pride with actual crime.

Grace O'Malley wrote:Unfortunately, Rick, you are confusing incivility with crime.

While no one likes foul language, droopy drawers, and your personal favorite, sloppy neighbors, those activities are not criminal activities.

I have some, shall we say, interesting neighbors myself, but I while I personally find their behavior repugnant, I don't think it reaches the level of a crime.

Let's quit confusing a general lack of manners and pride with actual crime.

I believe that foul language is the only one that Rick mentioned that is a borderline actionable offense, but all of the other items he mentioned are - "Drug raids, attempted car jackings, FBI agents getting shot, vandalism, litter, jay walking, foul language, etc." He didn't say droopy drawers and yes, sloppy neighbors are actionable as well. These problems are way over the civility line. Marginalizing people by telling them they don't see what they see or feel what they feel is an uncivil response.

One of the qualities of Lakewood that I have most admired in my 50 + years here is our willingness to acknowledge a problem and then find a way to fix it. But we can't fix it if we don't face it.

Sorry Suzanne, I do not confuse perception with reality nor do I let emotions and feelings cloud my thinking or influence my actions.

Rick and others, including Ryan Demro, continue to claim that crime is on an upswing.

The Chief of Police claims crime actually dropped.

All I'm asking is that someone tell me who is the liar?

Grace - Rick and Lori aren't imagining this; they're living it. They're not the only ones. To make this personal is not productive. I understand what Chief Malley was saying, I also understand what he wasn't saying. He can't provide us with the data you want because we don't have a data tracking system that would deliver that product. However he didn't mind talking about more officers on the road.

I'm pleased your world is sunshine and flowers. Rick and Lori's and other people in Lakewood aren't as fortunate and they would like to talk about that and possibly develop a solution. They're not complaining - they're trying to use this forum as a means of civic dialogue with a goal of developing some ideas to solve their problems. That's one of the reasons this deck exists.

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Rick, (Mr Pete Zahutt, and Kareem Sickle) is all over the message boards, at least 3 that I'm aware of, complaining about crime, vandalism, thugs, and slovenly neighbors. His initial complaint was the unkempt double with multiple cars, but he's expanded on to thugs, juveniles, yellow hummers, and more.

He is relentless and getting more so.

I don't share your concern for him at this point. He has his home up for sale, which he advertised on the boards, and he's made a choice to leave.

He's not a happy camper and we all know that unhappy people tend to be much more vocal than those who are satisfied.

Therefore, I take what he posts with a grain of salt and look for FACTS.

I'll ask yet again:

Demro says crime is up.

The police chief says its down.

Someone is either lying or misleading.

Who is it?

I think it is ridiculous that we cannot click a button and get these facts. Maybe this is another sign that we need more change in leadership. As far as who is misleading, when I ran productivity studies for corporations we never asked the managers for their view we asked the workers. The managers had a vested interest to make their picture look as nice as possible.

I am sure the politicians have an incentive too but who loses when we beef up security and safety?

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Grace O'Malley wrote:Rick, (Mr Pete Zahutt, and Kareem Sickle) is all over the message boards, at least 3 that I'm aware of, complaining about crime, vandalism, thugs, and slovenly neighbors. His initial complaint was the unkempt double with multiple cars, but he's expanded on to thugs, juveniles, yellow hummers, and more.

He is relentless and getting more so.

I don't share your concern for him at this point. He has his home up for sale, which he advertised on the boards, and he's made a choice to leave.

He's not a happy camper and we all know that unhappy people tend to be much more vocal than those who are satisfied.

Therefore, I take what he posts with a grain of salt and look for FACTS.

I'll ask yet again:

Demro says crime is up.

The police chief says its down.

Someone is either lying or misleading.

Who is it?

I think we're clear that what you're after is a who not a what. Crime can be up by virtue of the fact that it has changed. If I swap out car jacking and assault for jaywalking and littering - then crime is up whether the numbers say so or not.

So, politics aside, how do we address crime in Lakewood and maybe we need to do so on a different thread. I'll copy this and move it.

See the new thread:

What you are attempting to do is continue on a conversation about the supposed increase in crime in Lakewood without ever backing up your assertion.

All I am asking is for verification or confirmation that what you are saying is true.

According to the Chief of Police, who I assume I can trust, crime HAS NOT INCREASED.

Do you dispute his comment, Suzanne or do you have access to some facts that prove him wrong?

wrong thread

Okey - dokey -

Back in ancient times- the 60's and the 70's - I seem to remember getting what we used to call cat calls from hormonal (read teenage boys). We didn't call them thugs - we called them creeps.

I also remember drug dealing behind Manners, in front of Roman Fountain Pizza and the head shop that used to be there.

I remember congregating on street corners, some people (hmmm wonder who they were) sneaking a joint or a six pack down the valley and in Lakewood park.

I remember boys stealing cars and girls getting raped and people being wild.

I also remember fights in the bars and WEB drug agents trying to befriend us hippies.

Different times - different names - different dates.

History repeats itself and everyone thinks it's new - SIGH

...and then there was that July 1970 Battle of the Bands at Lakewood Park, between my group SKIE, and the band HAZE....

Wheeeeeeee........

They called it a draw. Both bands played well.

I'm pretty sure the oldsters had a few concerns about us too...

CERT is an excellent group, however it has it's mission. There is a gap open, that CERT's mission is not part of.

This gap is simply this: a on-going group of citizens that are willing to consistently wander or "patrol" our own city, and keep our eyes and ears open. In theory, every night all year around. There are many groups as such, all over the country.

REALISTICALLY, it would probably be more like a couple hours here and there sporadically, unless quite a few people would suddenly want to participate. For the last couple of years JimOB and I have kicked this around, and last year or so, we had one volunteer and she had a broken leg, but was still willing to help out.

Google this if you like: Citizen Patrols

There are success stories all around the country, and have been for a couple decades. If you want to hear more about these groups that are successful, contact me, and I'll give you further information to ponder.

This proposed group would be organized and trained.
I would like to see this proposed group trained so everyone would be on the same page and knowing what to watch for, members having criminal backround checks, finger print cards on file, the whole 9 yards, so it couldn't be construed as anything negative.

The proposed group would have to be something the LPD would at least give a smile to, rather than rolling eyes. There are a few such groups in the country I know of to a degree that are nothing more than a few good ole boys wandering around doing nothing or worse, making more problems than they are worth because they are totally UN-organized and are just doing it to get out of the house and away from the wives and kids.

This is NOT what I propose. (<----- re-read this 1000x) : D

I'll also explain why we would NOT want to hook up with a currant national organization and if it would make members feel better we could form our own national organization so we could sell t-shirts, memberships and coffee mugs on the web at a profit.

Mark Allan Crnolatas

Regarding droopy drawers, just a few minutes ago, a guy and his female friend, I'd say around 18ish, walked past our house, and he was showing butt-cleavage, pants dragging. What makes me wonder is do the girls like seeing that?

Mark Allan Crnolatas