The Observation Deck

Good friends Jennifer and Bill (you too, Bryan)

Isn't it great that we can have a vigorous discussion of important issues like this? I think we're all generally on the same page with some slight differences at the margins.

As both of your comments indicate, Lakewood marches on - it changes some, we deal with it, and we work and debate together!

Stan

Wow

Been away taking care of a couple business things and...

I would like to premise all of my comments with. If you are currently a Lakewood resident in exchange for
good behavior/assimilation with norms, I want you fed, housed, educated, feeling safe, and having fun and
taking part in the "Lakewood Good Life."

Bill, Jennifer, Well I am at a point in my life where I can say, I have you both beat on time here and memory. I
do not remember the Lakewood either of you are alluding to? I see far from it. I remember Lakewood as a
city filled with 50% renters, and a transient community that has always had a solid bank of people that "lived"
here. A river of churn of residents that were stopping off for their first rental as married, as a place to
land and get a old until they had enough from Ford or US Steel to but a house. Or a place where people
started their new life from. I remember Birdville(back in the day) as a place with immigrants, hard working
people, drug dealers, junkies, hillbillies who would shot their guns off, and bars that even the police would
not go in without back up.

I had the pleasure of walking Detroit years ago with Mayor George, it is still one of my most favorite walks I
have ever enjoyed in Lakewood as we talked of 6 real biker bars on Detroit and Madison. Not some yuppie
BS place, but real bikers, and all of the problems that came with real bikers, drugs, guns, fights, etc. I
remember vividly gangs and sections of Lakewood where a kid would feel so threatened they would not go
or at the least cross the street, or face getting slapped around, chased even beat up. I remember kids being
shaken down for their lunch money, kids hitting others with baseball bats "on a contract" and yes, even guns
in schools. But I also remember the community being very different, in a happier, healthier, cleaner way that
is quickly slipping away from the Lakewood we no have.

So Bill when you tell me about "Contrary to what some believe, we can't take Lakewood back to a time that
NEVER was." I am hoping you are not talking about me. The Lakewood I see today is not that far away, from
the wonderful bedroom community of old, and this is one of the many things that make me wonder, why do
so many see such a need for drastic change to the fabric of Lakewood, that we have to have a driving force
to make us whole as opposed to a constant need for maintenance, love, respect and nudging into a better
day aiming towards a better future.

The question I have asked as has Bill Call is. Are we working towards needing more of these programs, or less by the
very actions of City Hall, the Schools, and the businesses and residents? Or can we work towards a better
more sustainable community? I look at cities for these discussions as life boats, how many people can we
actually help in a way that is worthwhile to all before the boat sinks? In recent years we have seen
movements, and the best meaning people bring in families and groups that need a lot of public support
through nearly every aspect of their lives. Some refugees coming in that deserve a place to live and be safe,
but have also shown a general lack of interest in assimilating with American values. Which I would say is to
work, grow, and add or at least not subtract from those around you. Also one has to wonder in this economy,
in this region, at this time, we cannot afford to attract those in need, as we could in a healthier society. Again
I am not saying screw the poor, the medicated, the unstable. I am saying how many can we afford to bring
in, before our boat called Lakewood sinks. Doesn't it make sense, to try to get to a level of support for what
we are already doing before inviting or even bringing in more? Please note, not a single person in this story
arrived here by choice.

This city has always been very open to diversity, though now that it comes in colors instead of language or
lifestyle we are seeing more push back than ever before. Not surprising, people are generally afraid of change
especially change they can, see and feel they cannot control, in an era where so many things feel out of their
control. But as I think we have all said, if they are in Lakewood, they are Lakewoodites, and we want them
educated and productive, adding to the fabric of life, or as I have said at least not subtracting from life here.

Bill, when this was planned for Emerson, I am curious what were the reasons given?

You say it was well known, and I am sure it was to you on the committee, but was it really to the rest of the
city? Was it to the 50% renters who change over every couple years? Is it explained to every parent at
Emerson at the beginning of each school year? And when it is is it, "Emerson also hosts GED/ABLE programs
helping people get their GEDs and to better their lives." From every parent I have spoken with, it is, "These
students do not attend during the day when kids are there." Is it explained that many of these adult students
have police records, and are on release programs and the schools are not allowed to ask what those crimes
were because they have been expunged? Are parents told, "They use separate entrances" Or are they told
"They use separate entrances, that are 30' from each other, and that these criminals will walk through the play
ground on their cigarette breaks, and these adult students will be swearing, cussing, fighting, and smoking
as they walk through the playground of 2nd graders."?

While I will explain to Valerie what went on in a bit, I would prefer to focus on the lack of critical thought by
many, on a level that blows my mind, in this perfect storm of the "slaughter of Lakewood" brought on by the
very people we elect and support to provide us a "Clean, Safe, City." As I roll out this narrative online and in
the print version, I will ask all to use critical thought and very open minds to decide if we are being served
by those we hope will serve us, or has it all got lost in a warm fuzzy clubby feeling where we blindly elect and
support friends and programs because they are our friends or "good meaning people." Lakewood is where it is
at right now because we have all collectively driven the bus to this point and time, and it is time for
Lakewoodites to understand how and why, and who drove us here and why.

Bill, putting uneducated adults in a grade school, when we have empty schools, buildings, warehouses, empty
modules, and schools for bad kids, or at least those closer to their ages seems to me to border on insane. I
know why it was done, and who has pushed and pushed for ti to stay why people like Ed Favre and Matt
Markling has consistently fought to move it. Now, with a complete set of photos of the incident in their hands, the
school board is scurrying to get it done ASAP. It just makes me wonder why, the original committee could not
ever perceive this happening. Maybe we should move it to Lincoln, and then, see how well the "community"
feels about housing adults with children. Maybe we should ask LCA or St. Eds if they could help with this
small problem, and give the GED/ABLE program room? Maybe we should ask, how did this happen?

The other night I spoke with Jennifer Scott on the phone. Jennifer grew up in Lakewood Schools, as did you
I take it. She said she wants her kids going to Lakewood Public Schools. She would prefer they get that
experience, instead of the more sterilized education provided by LCA or Montessori schools. Jennifer Scott
is the person Lakewood Schools should be fighting to please, not working to alienate.

I think we can all agree on that.

.

FWIW

Jim,

Just to clarify....I have 3 kids and I have done both public and private education. This is not about choosing which is better but rather, what is the best choice at this point. I chose public for my daughter for lots of reasons, I would like to keep her there. I think once you clarify to everyone the bigger picture here most would agree that having the two trying to co-exist in the same building at the same time is not the answer.
Again, I am not saying the ABLE program is bad in any way...I am learning more about it and it certainly sounds like a very positive educational experience for some, I just do not think they need to be there when the younger ones are also there.

Jim --

Many of us need more real information, information that you seem to have, but seem coy about giving. I am waiting with anticipation for what you are teasing us all with: THE STORY. THE PHOTOS.

Until we have the information, our discussion is confused and confusing. It will burn itself out before we get anywhere real. "American Values" and "Lakewood of Yesteryear" and the "Value of Adult Education" is smoke and mirrors, and not helping anything. I hope your story will help explain some very specific things.

Who are the worrisome people? Not the specific individuals, but the population. You can't possibly be meaning "any and all people who want to better themselves through getting a GED". You are obviously talking about something else, something far more specific. But until this is teased out, we are not all talking about the same things, and we may be thinking that we are. I'm getting tired of the fog here.

What exactly is "Hidden Village", and how does it relate to the ABLE program at Emerson? I've been hearing that this is a specific subset of attendees of the ABEL program who are mandated to be there, and therefore NOT simply "people trying to better themselves" through adult education, but possibly violent criminals who are not there by choice, and not integrated into Lakewood's population but "placed" here.

Why was Emerson picked for the ABLE/ESOL program, by whom, and for what reason? I'm hearing that "love of architecture" was the main reason for its renovation and use as an elementary school, even though it's not in a proper location for the school population it needs to serve and it's way too big, necessitating the current "dual use".

Are "difficult," "needy" and "violent" populations being "brought" into Lakewood with some intention or for some reason? Besides the well-meaning reasons, and the "natural" drift of demographic and socioeconomic forces, are there other reasons we don't know? Who exactly is making these decisions? When were they made? Financial reason? Who is making the money? How much money?

Please refresh with details on "the incident": Did it involve a gun? What happened? Where exactly and when? Is it truly exemplary of some situational problem or a one-off unpreventable crime?

Please elaborate on the walking through, smoking, cursing and fighting by adults on a playground of 2nd graders. You just tossed it off as if that's just "how it is" there, and I want to know the validity of this description. Is this a situation that has been ongoing, or something that happened one time? If it's part of a general situation, how is it tolerated by the school employees watching the kids on the playground?

Let's get to the real discussion we are trying to have, please. I only have so much time on my hands, and I'm getting frustrated. If you have info, spill.

jennifer scott wrote:Jim,

Just to clarify....

Jennifer

Thank you.

I really would like to just hold this conversation to where it is right now without bringing in
the 2 ton hammer of what happened, because I hope it is a rare occurrence. Because, this
program will be moved, I am sure, as public opinion will soon demand it be moved. Please
not, not end it but move it in someway.

Yesterday I had the good fortune to attend a Lakewood Family Collaborative Meeting. This
is a group of professionals that get together to talk about their programs and how they
can work together. Nearly every person in that room is a professional, that deals with
abuse, poverty, neglect, criminal behavior, homeless, community meals etc. All are very
good positive people that love the community and see a need for what they are doing in
their needed programs, and most are getting paid.

Bryan Kessler, program director from Opportunity House. A place that gives homes and
shelter to men ages 18-24 that are terminally homeless. His 28 beds are full, and has
gotten referrals from Lakewood, both schools and other centers in Lakewood. His program
is in an decommissioned Catholic Church, and saw this as a great opportunity for his
group. As he spoke he mentioned how much push back he got from the neighbors, and
it brought to mind Bill's NIMBY comment, because NIMBY is perceived to mean a bad
thing. And let's be honest, it is something we are all guilty of. I remember during the
WestEnd Debacle(not my term) Residents that were to get 2,000 cars an hour in front of
their homes were accused of being NIMBY. Those same people crying NIMBY, fought and
stopped a 40 floor hotel being built along the river on Sloan because it would put as many
as 40 cars a day, past their homes on Clifton and Lake. There NIMBY was just fine.

My thought was how many of these homeless shelters can one city provide, before the
actual city becomes more homeless, than tax-payers? How far can we stretch our city
services before they become overwhelmed or bankrupt? How can we serve those that are
here fairly both tax-payers and non-taxpayers if we overload the system. Or even more
bluntly, or we carrying our trash to the curb, to feed ex-criminals that are now robbing us?

Again, not a black, brown, yellow or green issue. Not a "We Don't Want The Irish!"
moment like in Blazing Saddles. Just a simple question, are we to become the home for
those that cannot care for themselves, as it would seem the county wants us to become,
or do we first get ourselves healthy so that we can do a better job for all. In dealing with
drug addicts, alcoholics, and elderly that need help the most important thing to tell the
care givers is, "You must take care of yourself first, or everyone suffers."

We know that with the Bonnieview Apartments, we have at least one agency housing
non-productive members of society here. We know that with Hidden Village we have
apartments housing people re-entering society. We know that there are other programs
filling cheap Lakewood rentals with refugees, heavily medicated veterans, and all sorts
of other issues, and people that legitimately need and depend on our help. And as they
are here, we need to make sure they have it or else things fall apart. My question would
be how many more do we need? And how many more before, we start to lose our tax-base
and start to alienate the tax-payer that makes it all possible?

Bill
Question, as you were on the committee. There is a rumor out there that this program
was put in Emerson so to get more aid and to preserve the historic nature of the building
that made it damn near cost prohibitive. The schools are beautiful, and a crowning
achievement in an inner ring suburb anywhere what alone in Cleveland, but did the
committee, hand over security, for a few dollars more?

Did the committee understand that the buildings would be housing both at the same time?

What was your understanding of the program at the time?

PLEASE NOTE - not calling for an end to the program, or for anyone to leave Lakewood.

.

Jim,

Thanks so much for mentioning that you attended the Lakewood Family Collaborative Meeting. It doesn't take long to figure out how much good people want to do and how edicated they are to solving problems. There are a lot of problems to solve and sometimes the decisions that are made just don't seem to make sense--making it harder for people who want to make our community/society better. All of those professionals, volunteers, and community leaders want to help Lakewood be stronger.

You mentioned Opportunity House and Ryan. He certainly believes in what he does! The timing of this presentation couldn't have been better. The one thing I brought away from his describing his program is that there isn't any tolerance for criminal or bad behavior. He is willing and determined to be a good neighbor in the Garfield Heights community. He mentioned at one point that it would take only one police call out to his building to shut them down. The homeless young men living at the convent go through a stringent interview process, must pass a drug test, and must be willing to forgo all visitation rights, plus pay $50.00 rent each month. They also must put in 20 hours of education in per week and talk to a counselor.

Who runs this "Village" in Lakewood? Do they go through all of the steps that Opportunity House does? It seems we need to do a better job of screening who comes into the buildings and/or into the ABLE/ESOL Program. If I remember correctly, ABLE can expel students who are behavior issues or post serious threats. This would have to be verified.

The ABLE/ESOL program has been housed at Emerson for how long? Two Years? The sign out front looks pretty permanent. So, until recently, has it been incident-free? I have spoken to some of the parents I know who attend Emerson. They either didn't know is was there, or they have never heard of any problems. Kids do tend to come home and let us know what they see or hear at school. I would like to hear more from Emerson parents.

I support the ABLE/ESOL program and most of the people who are registered. Most are good people. I also support parents who need to know who may be coming in contact with their kids everyday. Why wouldn't they have known the program is there with a big sign? Or, wouldn't have they been told during orientation? To me, the issue with adults on the playground with kids comes down to the person in charge of the building. I agree with Mike, there seems to be a lot of unanswered questions and missing pieces in all of this.

I do have a suggestion; however. Part of the program is at Grace Lutheran already. Why can't the whole program be housed there? Is it just cost? There may be other churches willing to house this program.

This is a case of finding out what parents want in their schools and programs--an issue that still needs to be solved between the Lakewood Board of Education and parents/community. If you don't ask us, you can't know what we want. If you are not asking us then we assume you don't want us to know what is going on in our schools. If school board members were fighting to get the program moved, who were they fighting? Aren't they the decision makers? Why not let us know so that we could back them up?

So many questions...

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I really would like to just hold this conversation to where it is right now without bringing in the 2 ton hammer of what happened, because I hope it is a rare occurrence.

I guess those of of us who don't know what happened will just have to be patient before we can be trusted. I, for one, can handle a two ton hammer like an adult. It is, however, extremely salient to what exactly and specifically may be wrong and what may therefore need to be fixed.

Bill Trentel wrote:One bad character looking to do bad act, did location make a difference?

We can't know this without further information.

jennifer scott wrote:Why is someone in the ABLE program doing a robbery outside the school grounds during school hours when our children are on the playground??

Jennifer, please elucidate.

Kristine Pagsuyoin wrote:I agree with Mike, there seems to be a lot of unanswered questions and missing pieces in all of this.

Thanks Kristine, I was beginning to feel a little invisible here . . .

--------------------

Am I just a really impatient guy? Let's get the incident and the background out on the table. Let's all first promise not to get out the pitchforks or jump on the first train leaving Lakewood . . .

Mike it is not that you cannot handle it. The police did a wonderful job, as did the school.

I really think, the point to this discussion is very much what Bill said. And that should be
the focus at this point. Was it a good idea to put adults of all type in a grade school? He
said it was and we all knew what was going on. I am sure mentioning armed robbery
would make everyone gasp. But that is not the point, nor at least the point I am trying to
make.

1) Who thought housing adults, some criminal a good idea for a Lakewood Grade School.

2) Are we bringing much of this on ourselves.

There might be other points people need to make, or need to know. But you really need to
take a step back, and look at the larger picture, or we will go from event to event and
never understand how easy it is to fix.

As for as for the singular student that caused this incident. I am figuring he will not be an
issue for the next 3 - 5 years. But how and why he is here still exists.


.

Betsy Voinovich wrote:
Finally, during the Communication portion of the meeting, School Board Member Ed Favre made a strong request that the Adult Education program, ABLE, that is currently housed at Emerson Elementary be either moved, or conducted at a time when elementary school children are not on the same site. There was an incident outside the school last week that had everyone taking a second look at the wisdom of putting two such different populations together. I stood up to chime in from the parents angle to let the Board know that I thought it was a very good idea to move the program, and to tell them that most parents didn't even know that program was being held in that building at the same time as elementary school was in session. Dr. Madak said that the administration was in the process of getting it done.

The quote above is from the original post. About 5 comments in, I asked what the 'incident' was and it's been danced around since then until Mike and Kristine reiterated it. I realize that it is part of a larger discussion, but it is really a very simple question.

I have a personal concern since my kid attends this school. It's not an attempt at gossip or fear mongering regarding crime in Lakewood near our schools. I would like to have a better handle on what exactly went down before I comment further on the decision to house ABLE/ESOL programs in certain locations and certain times.

Once again, the 'vaguebooking' continues. I would like to contribute to these types of discussions in an intelligent manner, but I can't seem to find the energy to parse out the hidden meanings and messages about things mentioned which I apparently am not 'in the know.'

I feel like any chance of a meaningful conversation is lost in these instances and merely becomes a dialogue, or even a monologue.

I think this one is veering off the original topic. There are bigger issues at play here that of course we should all be concerned about and cognizant of, no question. Can we just revisit the original topic and sort that one out before we go further? Thank you.

Valarie

It is not dancing around the event is on this website. I was there through the entire
episode. Nothing has been hidden, but the actual crime is not the issue. The criminal has
been arrested and removed from society.

Maybe Bill is correct and it is a one time freak occurrence.

Do you believe that everyone is this program is a criminal? Let's say you do. And you
remove you child. It fixes nothing but you immediate needs, which I am not saying are
legitimate. To me, the larger issue is, how did this even happen, what were the thoughts,
who pushed it through if anyone, who has been fighting to keep it for the past two years
even when school board members said it was a bad idea. And who is fighting to keep it
there and why.

What is not a one time occurrence is the people in charge of this community. If there is
potential for real problems, it MIGHT be supporting people because they are nice, or
friends, or good people, or the newest, at least they are trying something. The bad man
is gone, the reasons why he was here, at Emerson have not.

Sorry, I know it frustrates you, but my singular goal was not to get you to remove your
child from Emerson. And it is certainly not to get you frustrated with what happened and
think it is time to move. I am not trying to cause sensationalism or panic. Just trying to
understand the reason, someone said. "Let's put adults with 1st graders." Then did they
even know who these adults would be?

Thanks as always, sorry for the beating around the bush.

.

I never said anything about moving or removing my kid from Emerson, nor did I ever question the need or validity of the ABLE/ESOL program. I also never said anything about the people who utilize these programs being criminals. It seems, however, that a criminal act was commited by one of the people utilizing this program. But I shouldn't be concerned with what happened, because the police took care of it? Ok. Thanks for the reassurance.

Just asked "what happened at Emerson?" An incident, apparently, to cause enough concern for the school board to consider moving the program to another site.

Again, a simple question. What happened.

Again, I cannot comment on the rest of the hows and why because I still do not know what went down to precipitate this discussion.

Hi, Jim. Thanks for answering.

I don't want to know more about the incident for its own sake (or out of a need for "crime news"), but to help in diagnosing the exact nature of the problem. I take it, now, that someone in the ABEL program at Emerson committed armed robbery in the vicinity of or upon leaving the ABEL program Emerson? And that this person was "placed" here as part of some other social program that Lakewood signed on for?

It's obviously prudent to keep adult learners and elementary students at different facilities, but if there are harmful influences to the contrary at work here that came to a head in this "incident", I think we can best work backwards from the incident itself. What happened, by whom, why was he there, how did The City (and all of us) facilitate (knowingly or unknowingly) a situation which at its worse results in an incident like this.

If security can't be maintained at a standard acceptable to a knowing community, the answer to Bill's broad question is just simple: No. Adults of all types, especially if there is reason to believe that a more-than-normal proportion of said adults have antisocial, violent and/or criminal backgrounds, should not be coming and going at the same time children are coming, going, learning and playing at a grade school. No. Not good.

We're moving it? Good.

Now . . . how did we get here? Why was he here, at Emerson and in Lakewood? What programs brought him here and why? Why do we seem so unaware of what may be an large influx of people being "placed" here?

Thanks.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Valarie

It is not dancing around the event is on this website.

Link, please.

Valerie Molinski wrote:Just asked "what happened at Emerson?" An incident, apparently, to cause enough concern for the school board to consider moving the program to another site.

Again, a simple question. What happened.

Again, I cannot comment on the rest of the hows and why because I still do not know what went down to precipitate this discussion.

Valerie

Of course you are one of the voices of sanity to my trying to get there.

You are correct.

Any other questions you need answer?


.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Valerie

Of course you are one of the voices of sanity to my trying to get there.

You are correct.

Any other questions you need answer?


.

Yes, what is the airspeed velocity of an unladen swallow? African or European. I'm not picky.