The Observation Deck

I never complained about my government housing child and I never said anything about someone challenging the home invader.

I'm very happy with where I live, I'm not happy with privileged white boys telling me they're the new voice in town. You're shrill young man and nonsensical.

You don't know much about the world and you are overly impressed with yourself. How dare you put words in my mouth. I'm probably the same age as your mother and have lived a lot longer and a lot harder than you.

Ok, before this devolves into personal attacks, I'll leave it at this......


.....Think Arizona.

The real struggle is not between conservatives and liberals or Republicans and Democrats.

The real struggle is between tax producers and tax eaters. It is a battle between those who think the wealth of a nation is created by working, saving, investing, innovation and individual responsibity and those who think wealth is created by waiting for the next government check to come in the mail.

Read this:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/ ... 2n4-1.html

My favorite line uses the phrase "eating the flesh of the future".

Those men and women who take part in tea party demonstrations see the country becoming a country of flesh eaters and they don't like it.

The Flesh Eaters Of The Future are afraid that the gravy train will come to an end. That is why they feel the need to lie about the movement and its people.

Everything you like about Lakewood was created by people who shared the values of the people of the tea party movement. The streets, the homes, the institutions and the neighborhoods.

Some have chosen to stay. Some have chosen to move on. Some of those who replaced them are the Flesh Eaters of The Future who wander town in wonder in amazement to see and enjoy what others created. So much better than what they left behind. So much the better that someone else paid for it.

For them, the real beauty is that when what they see starts to resemble what they left behind they can simply move on to the next city.

Bill Call wrote:The real struggle is not between conservatives and liberals or Republicans and Democrats.

The real struggle is between tax producers and tax eaters. It is a battle between those who think the wealth of a nation is created by working, saving, investing, innovation and individual responsibity and those who think wealth is created by waiting for the next government check to come in the mail.

Read this:

http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/ ... 2n4-1.html

My favorite line uses the phrase "eating the flesh of the future".

Bill

While I always enjoy a good cannibal reference, as there is so much of that going on,
especially here with non-profits cannibalizing other non-profits, those that have
cannibalizing those without etc. I think the report and the movement really comes
up short. Real short.

Tea pARTyers remind me of Libertarians that are slightly more sober. Libertarian ways
work best and are easiest to explain in a dorm room at 3am after the bars close. Of course
the conversation soon falls apart as they come to realize that the libraries, the streets,
the water department, some police, maybe street cleaners, and of course their state
colleges do not exist in their world.

Tea pARTyers are the sobering moment over breakfast, where the conversation turns to
"Well we should cut all the rest of hose programs..." With zero knowledge or thought on
what happens next or how things would work after, "keeping the Bush tax cuts, that favor
1% of America."

Yeah cannibalism is a good analogy, but it should be more like "The Donner pARTy" You
are moving a little slow. I will eat you to stay healthy, warm and fat. Let me explain how
insignificant your life is as I make the vegetables we will serve with you.

Much like regionalism, nearly impossible to re-engineer once the train has left heliport.

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Jim O'Bryan wrote:With zero knowledge or thought on
what happens next or how things would work after

is that like when someone tells you... "we need to pass the bill so we can find out what's in the bill."

Democrats, Republicans, Libertarians, Tea Party, Green Party, whatever...

Forget about all that. I'm going "old school"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know-Nothing_Party

...damn Catholics!

To get back to point.

Seems to me the biggest problem with BOTH sides is that everything gets painted as "all or nothing" or "if this is ok, then so is this".

Tea partiers have a point that government spending is increasing and may be unsustainable over the long run.

Other groups are right when they say that we need to band together for things that effect the public good.

From a guy who's pretty much in the middle, it seems like both sides are too busy demonizing the other to actually listen.

Just because I'm hungry, it doesn't mean I'm entitled to caviar, but by the same token, I shouldn't have to dig through dumpsters to eat either.

Both sides have good ideas, it's a shame we can't cherry pick the best of both.

My whole point in this matter is this - Within a week and a half, a senior, who lives at the Westerly, had her purse snatched at the Lakewood Library, the front door lock at the Westerly was jimmied open, thus endangering the frailer seniors residing there and Tea Party fliers were posted all over the building, elevators bulletin boards etc. which is illegal and the fliers were designed to scare Medicare benificiaries.

Either you are furious that seniors or targetted in this manner or you think it's what they deserve because of their entitlement programs.

What is the matter with so many of you. Many people living here are frightened and have lost their sense of security in their homes. No one should have the right to that. It's appalling.

Bret Callentine wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:With zero knowledge or thought on
what happens next or how things would work after

is that like when someone tells you... "we need to pass the bill so we can find out what's in the bill."

Bret

Kind of but worse.

It is lets cut this because of the amount or because it does not help the top !% without
any consideration for the fallout along the entire line.


Bob

Of course you are correct. Media lives and amplifies the extremes, while most of us live
somewhere in the middle.

What bothers me is the utter lack of critical thought or reasoning that follows The Tea
pARTy, which was actually started and trademarked by some slick marketing types.

Many yell for no entitlement, while they themselves are on medicare or medicaid, for
one small example.

The very real fact is that America sits where it is right now because of our leadership over
the decades. Get a job? What do we make? All allowed to go overseas. So we get jobs
selling services to people that can no longer afford services. Vicious circle.

We have to stabilize the country, while slowing down spending and getting everyone into
line. HOWEVER I cannot see how cutting taxes, solves the deficit, that was nearly paid
off during Clinton's term.

Last night someone mentioned that we are in the 8th term of Reagan, and I think he is right.


Sharon

I for one worry about the safety of seniors, and well, everyone else in this town. For those
that listen, the radio is rarely silent these days.


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Bill Call wrote: It is a battle between those who think the wealth of a nation is created by working, saving, investing, innovation and individual responsibity and those who think wealth is created by waiting for the next government check to come in the mail.

Actually the real battle is between people who think that the issues are as simple as you state and those who understand that there is no black and white and that you can only make political change by having a deep understanding of the shades of grey.

That's one of the biggest problems with the tea party: a naive idealistic belief that the things they espouse are actually possible in the real world without consequence (I'm being generous here---there are also people in the party who know very well the consequences and/or are just playing upon the supporters for political gain.)

The other main problem is that so much of it is rooted in what people are against rather than what people are for. That's the kind of thing that encourages such hateful black-and-white thinking.

Aaron Milenski wrote:Actually the real battle is between people who think that the issues are as simple as you state and those who understand that there is no black and white and that you can only make political change by having a deep understanding of the shades of grey.

Quoted for truth.

Aaron Milenski wrote:That's one of the biggest problems with the tea party: a naive idealistic belief that the things they espouse are actually possible in the real world without consequence (I'm being generous here---there are also people in the party who know very well the consequences and/or are just playing upon the supporters for political gain.)

President Obamas policies will increase the total DEBT to over 100% of GDP. Under his current spending plans total federal SPENDING will increase to over 30% of GDP from the long term average of 18% of GDP. Obama has made the Washington DC area the wealthiest region in the country.

People who attend tea party rallies think that is a bad idea.

Rather than debate that issue Obama and his supporters have used a carefully orchestrated campaign of hate and villification to silence and demonize his opposition.

You think that is a good idea. I don't.

The problem with split the difference moderation is that it leads to the same end, total debt over 100% of GDP. Moderation is liberalism in disguise. To the liberal there is never enough spending never enough programs and never enough government power.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03278.html

If on Monday morning you asked a liberal what he needed to "solve" the problem and on Monday afternoon you gave what was asked on Tuesday morning they would be arguing that it isn't enough. Day after day, week after week, month after month and it is still not enough.

During the last few years government spending in England increased from 37% of GDP to 50% of GDP. The result? The economy is declining and the National Health service is collapsing under its own weight.

http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Stories ... hcare.aspx

This discussion doesn't help us much on the local level. I think what would help is thinking about these questions:

How does increasing taxes to provide raises for the people of Avon Lake and Bay Village make Lakewood a better place to live?

How do we compete when Cuyahoga County government is subsidising development in Lorain County?

How do we compete when Cuyahoga Community College builds its new campus on the borders of Lorain County?

How do we compete?

Aaron Milenski wrote:That's one of the biggest problems with the tea party: a naive idealistic belief that the things they espouse are actually possible in the real world without consequence

What rallies are you attending? because it has been my experience that most of the people I have talked to at these events all recognize the very real, and very harsh consequences involved in cutting back government spending and involvement. However, they also recognize the even greater threat and consequences of NOT making those sacrifices.

The treatment options for cancer can be devistating, but not nearly as bad as the outlook without the treatment.

From what I have heard (directly from the mouths of many of the people attending and leading these rallies) is NOT a call for NO government, but a call for a fiscally responsible government. And I'm not sure I understand how that can be such a radical expectation.

If you're not a liberal, don't speak for them. Parroting the tea party line about how the left thinks is once again putting a black and white spin on a complex issue. Liberalism is not merely about spending, and if it was, Reagan and George W. Bush (whose first term policies were the most fiscally reckless of any president) would be considered every bit as liberal as Obama. I have never yet met a rightie who has the slightest idea how I actually think and who doesn't make completely incorrect assumptions even after listening to me. There are too many talk radio talking points burned into people's brains.

Lefties are happy to debate the issue of debt in two ways. The first is whether it really matters, but the more important one is how the tea partiers intend to actually do anything about it. You can complain all you want about it, but until you do the math and prove to me that it's actually possible to balance the budget without cutting anything you actually value and without sending the current economy into an even worse tailspin, you're just blowing smoke. The Republican platform is to complain about debt if it is incurred by any policies they don't like. It's all about politics; it's most certainly not about fiscal responsibility. It is simply not possible to balance the budget, cut spending, fight two wars, raise interest rates, and lower the unemployment rate in this economy.

Ranting about what you dislike about the other side is not providing answers. I have yet to see anyone lay out any short term proposal to solve this "problem" that doesn't include a very severe period of very high unemployment, something that would be utterly disastrous to this country at this place in time.

By the way, I am not a fan of moderation at all. Centrism is the absolute worst political position, because as proposals get moved to the center, they are gutted of everything that makes them effective in the first place. This is what happened with the current bank/wall street reform act, the stimulus package, and also with the health care plan.

Also, don't compare local politics to national politics. They are not even remotely related in terms of budget.

I do agree with you on one thing: government subsidies (and all forms of corporate welfare) create a major problem that needs to be addressed in a big way.

Aaron Milenski wrote:If you're not a liberal, don't speak for them. Parroting the tea party line about how the left thinks is once again putting a black and white spin on a complex issue. Liberalism is not merely about spending, and if it was, Reagan and George W. Bush (whose first term policies were the most fiscally reckless of any president) would be considered every bit as liberal as Obama.

Bush is a progressive conservative.
Progressivism, whether on the left or the right, is what is leading this country in the wrong direction. It did the same thing in the early 20th century, under the likes of Woodrow Wilson and Teddy Roosevelt (a "Republican" who later formed the Progressive or "Bull Moose" Party in 1912) and led us into the Depression of 1920. It was a 50+% cut in spending AND a huge reduction in taxes which ended that depression cold and gave us the Roaring 20s.

Aaron Milenski wrote:It is simply not possible to balance the budget, cut spending, fight two wars, raise interest rates, and lower the unemployment rate in this economy.

LUKE: (discouraged) You want the impossible.

Quietly Yoda turns toward the X-wing fighter. With his eyes closed and his head bowed, he raises his arm and points at the ship.
Soon, the fighter rises above the water and moves forward as Artoo beeps in terror and scoots away.
The entire X-wing moves majestically, surely, toward the shore. Yoda stands on a tree root and guides the fighter carefully down toward the beach.
Luke stares in astonishment as the fighter settles down onto the shore. He walks toward Yoda.

LUKE: I don't...I don't believe it.

YODA: That is why you fail.

Give me a few days, I'll offer some thoughts on how to do this stuff...