The Observation Deck

Bob Mehosky wrote:
The burden of proof is on you.

Bob,

The burden of proof is on elected officials, not residents.

They alone are privy to the definitive answers and the facts which they have thus far refused to share with Lakewood residents.


I have presented endless information and facts which “seem” to indicate the “power“, the “authority” and the “contractual commitment” to regionalize our Fire and EMS operations is already in place, signed off on and out of the hands of the residents.

I have asked here, asked in emails and asked of you Bob, to encourage Mayor Ed Fitzgerald and or Council President Kevin Butler to clear this matter up so there can be no room for misunderstanding or misconstruing of our rights to vote. Our rights as residents of Westshore who pay the highest taxes. Who have the best services and schools. And thus have the most to lose.

At some point you have to begin to ask your self Bob, why on earth wouldn’t they just say and confirm that residents must have a referendum vote on if our fire department becomes regionalized. Why are they not offering your “opinion” of the facts, the Authority of a declarative statement. Why the games?

And at some point Bob, you have to come to terms with exactly why, since you have so much “faith” in them, ..why you are too afraid to ask them, so you can prove your assumptions. The inclination of question and doubt must be, a least, beginning to grow in you. Why else would you not do, at least once, what I have done repeatedly…Ask them.


I can apperciate and respect your loyalty and devotion to our elected public officials. I have no beef with you. And regardless of how all of this proves out to be, I would offer you my hand in a gesture of a truce and a hug offered in the spirit of community. Why, because, we are the community which IS Lakewood. ..squabbles, difference of opinion, difference of “vision” … we still are connected.

As goes your lot so goes mine.

Lakewood, not the players, is what matters in the end.


Again, Bob.
"If you don't believe the information that's been continually spelled out for you, why not actually CALL the mayor or Councilman Butler, and then post your response "


Let us know what you confirm with Mayor Ed Fitzgerald and or Council President Kevin Butler.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All it would take is a Yes residents have the right to a ballot vote. A right to referendum.

Or a No, the regionalization is up to the Westshore Council of Governments, Mayor and City Council. Regionalization of our Fire and EMS (and, even more scary, a slew of other city functions) is NOT SUBJECT TO REFERENDUM

Shelley,

Council hasn't had a reason even to ask for an opinion on whether regionalizing fire services would be subject to a ballot vote or to a council vote. As I've explained many, many times, we won a grant to study whether it makes sense for Lakewood and we're waiting for the results of that study (not breathlessly, I might add).

We've made no decisions or inquiries on the subject, and further no shady deals, cabals or secret societies. If we were to continue to discuss the issue, we'd do so, as we always do, only after public notice and in the light of many, many public meetings.

Hope that helps put an end to this. Why do I get the nagging feeling it won't?

Kevin

Kevin Butler wrote:Council hasn't had a reason even to ask for an opinion on whether regionalizing fire services would be subject to a ballot vote or to a council vote.

Kevin

Umm, Council has had every reason to ask, inquire, clarify and know for certain if it would require a ballot vote. ..

One reason being, you were asked by a resident to find out.

And secondly incase Lakewood (sic) decides (sic) regionalization does make sense. Would not it be nice if our Council knew ahead of time what particulars would/wouldn’t necessitate a expensive and time consuming vote of the people?

Also, …your statement, ”further no shady deals, cabals or secret societies. “… I am sure you didn’t direct that snipe at me, right? I have never eluded to “shady deals, cabals or secret societies”.

My concern is missinformation being disseminated and lack of information being available to residents.

You, Mayor Ed Fitzgerald and the Westshore Council of Governments told and continue to tell folks this was/is for a “feasibility study” , a “pros and cons” study

But, EffecientGovNow reports that is NOT why you applied for this grant, nor what you stated as its purpose, nor for what the intent of the grant is/was:

"According to the Fund, the award was for the purpose of implementation"

"According to the Fund, the award was not for a feasibility study. Nor for a pros and cons study."


According to EffecientGovNow:
"The Proposal Review Committee made the determination that Westshore’s request was based on the implementation of the project, not on studying its feasibility” “COG’s objective is to fully integrate and regionalize its Fire & EMS operations”…”COG formed the Fire District Committee (FDC) to begin implementing this goal. “
”The progress review includes a review of expenditures to ensure grant funding was applied to stated objectives. “ “COG is proceeding with the comprehensive regionalization of its entire Fire and EMS operations.”

So Kevin, tell us all again how:
“Council hasn't had a reason even to ask for an opinion on whether regionalizing fire services would be subject to a ballot vote or to a council vote.”

The questions need a clear answer and I will keep insisting on a Definitive answer:

Yes residents have the right to a ballot vote. A right to referendum.

Or a No, the regionalization is up to the Westshore Council of Governments, Mayor and City Council. Regionalization of our Fire and EMS (and, even more scary, a slew of other city functions) is NOT SUBJECT TO REFERENDUM

Kevin Butler wrote:Shelley,

We've made no decisions or inquiries on the subject, and further no shady deals, cabals or secret societies. If we were to continue to discuss the issue, we'd do so, as we always do, only after public notice and in the light of many, many public meetings.

Hope that helps put an end to this. Why do I get the nagging feeling it won't?

Kevin

Kevin


Thank you for your time.


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Kevin Butler wrote:Hope that helps put an end to this. Why do I get the nagging feeling it won't?

Kevin,

You're like psychic or somethin'.

Steve

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stephen davis wrote:

Kevin Butler wrote:Hope that helps put an end to this. Why do I get the nagging feeling it won't?

Kevin,

You're like psychic or somethin'.

Steve

.

He is like the Miss Cleo of The Observation Deck

On a side note, Kevin is a great council person. He works hard for the people of Ward 1. Thanks Kevin!


PS I see a chair in Kevin's future... I am seeing Lakewood Hardware... a tall man
Please deposit another $5.00 for the rest of this reading

Shelley Hurd wrote:

Kevin Butler wrote:Council hasn't had a reason even to ask for an opinion on whether regionalizing fire services would be subject to a ballot vote or to a council vote.

Kevin

Umm, Council has had every reason to ask, inquire, clarify and know for certain if it would require a ballot vote. ..

One reason being, you were asked by a resident to find out.

And secondly incase Lakewood (sic) decides (sic) regionalization does make sense. Would not it be nice if our Council knew ahead of time what particulars would/wouldn’t necessitate a expensive and time consuming vote of the people?

Also, …your statement, ”further no shady deals, cabals or secret societies. “… I am sure you didn’t direct that snipe at me, right? I have never eluded to “shady deals, cabals or secret societies”.

My concern is missinformation being disseminated and lack of information being available to residents.

You, Mayor Ed Fitzgerald and the Westshore Council of Governments told and continue to tell folks this was/is for a “feasibility study” , a “pros and cons” study

But, EffecientGovNow reports that is NOT why you applied for this grant, nor what you stated as its purpose, nor for what the intent of the grant is/was:

"According to the Fund, the award was for the purpose of implementation"

"According to the Fund, the award was not for a feasibility study. Nor for a pros and cons study."


According to EffecientGovNow:
"The Proposal Review Committee made the determination that Westshore’s request was based on the implementation of the project, not on studying its feasibility” “COG’s objective is to fully integrate and regionalize its Fire & EMS operations”…”COG formed the Fire District Committee (FDC) to begin implementing this goal. “
”The progress review includes a review of expenditures to ensure grant funding was applied to stated objectives. “ “COG is proceeding with the comprehensive regionalization of its entire Fire and EMS operations.”

So Kevin, tell us all again how:
“Council hasn't had a reason even to ask for an opinion on whether regionalizing fire services would be subject to a ballot vote or to a council vote.”

The questions need a clear answer and I will keep insisting on a Definitive answer:

Yes residents have the right to a ballot vote. A right to referendum.

Or a No, the regionalization is up to the Westshore Council of Governments, Mayor and City Council. Regionalization of our Fire and EMS (and, even more scary, a slew of other city functions) is NOT SUBJECT TO REFERENDUM

Kevin,

While we wait for you to address the above, perhaps you could also look into the following:


Westshore fire district final draft proposal , Projected Expenses:
“Westshore Fire District Apparatus Maintenance Garage“…”renovating an existing garage to suit the needs of the District
Will Lakewood see this coming to our city?

“Westshore Fire District Administrative & Fire Prevention Offices:…”we plan to renovate an existing building within the District to serve as our Administrative Center”

Will one of Lakewood’s closed Schools be used to house this? Or perhaps to house the "Westshore Fire District Training center"?

For pete's sake, this is STILL going on?!?!?

What is it going to take to get it through your head?

A quote from the unions calling it a "study"?

http://www.westlifenews.com/2009/08-19/unionstudy.html

Officials from the Westshore Council of Governments have drawn additional support from city firefighters unions for a study about whether to create a regional fire district.

A council vote from the Rocky River City Council calling it a "study" only?

http://www.westlifenews.com/2009/08-26/contract.html

Finally, council approved entering into an agreement with the Westshore Council of Governments and Emergency Services Consulting International for the study of a regional fire district for seven area cities — Bay Village, Fairview Park, Lakewood, North Olmsted, North Ridgeville, Rocky River and Westlake.

A quote from the North Ridgeville mayor saying that it's a study and they have no idea what will come from it?

http://blog.cleveland.com/thesun/2009/0 ... ey_to.html

"We do not know at this time what the study may determine is our best course of action," North Ridgeville Mayor Dave Gillock said. "It might recommend basic sharing of training, combination of two or three departments, up to a single fire district for the entire area. We don't know. But we do know that if we can do something that provides better fire and health services to our residents and saves out taxpayer dollars, we need to consider it."

By the way, all these stories were linked from the EfficientGovNow website. If they really expect the grant to be for implementation only, don't you think they might question these folks rather than publicize them?

Stop tilting at windmills. Let this thing go.

Bob Mehosky wrote:Stop tilting at windmills. Let this thing go.

Bob,

If reading my posts disturb you.. don’t read them. Problem solved.

Council President Kevin Butler and Mayor Ed Fitzgerald are grown men and seasoned politicians. Without you to jump to their defense… they will be fine.

But as for asking me to relinquish my right to demand clear definitive answers from my elected representatives…, not even with your help will I allow them to deny me that,…no way.

I have the right to answers as do all Lakewood residents.

The fact that Council President Kevin Butler stated, “Council hasn't had a reason even to ask for an opinion on whether regionalizing fire services would be subject to a ballot vote or to a council vote.”, is Despicable and Irresponsible.

He was asked to find out by one of his Constituents. That made it his job. Even if he lacked the professional curiosity to find out as a Council Member who definately needs to know, since the regionalization of our Fire and EMS is currently being "studied", he should of done it for a resident who asked him to find out.

The answers should really be extremely simple, Yes or No.

Answers which need more then a Yes or a No.. are carefully crafted answers met to conceal, confuse or delay the revelation of fact and truth.


Regionalization of Lakewood’s Fire, EMS, potentially police, school administration, refuse, Office of Aging, a regional Jail…. All of these concern me.

Why own property in Lakewood and pay the highest tax of any Westshore Community when I could live in Bay or Westlake and have my property values increase plus pay a lower tax rate, and still have the Regional services?


Also, the facts I state come from actual people at EffecientGovNow and the Fund. They are trustworthy. They have not skewed facts. They do not give cryptic answers. The are not deceptive in their motives. They aren’t trying to get anything over on Lakewood residents. Nor do they have a history of doing so. The grant makers are who I trust to tell the truth.

_____________________________________________________________________


The questions need a clear answer and I will keep insisting on a Definitive answer:

Yes residents have the right to a ballot vote. A right to referendum.

Or a No, the regionalization is up to the Westshore Council of Governments, Mayor and City Council. Regionalization of our Fire and EMS (and, even more scary, a slew of other city functions) is NOT SUBJECT TO REFERENDUM

Will one of Lakewood’s closed Schools be used to house one of the new "Westshore Fire District centers"?

Kevin Butler wrote:Shelley,

"Council hasn't had a reason even to ask for an opinion on whether regionalizing fire services would be subject to a ballot vote or to a council vote." ..." If we were to continue to discuss the issue, we'd do so, as we always do, only after public notice and in the light of many, many public meetings."

Hope that helps put an end to this. Why do I get the nagging feeling it won't?

Kevin

Kevin,


Minutes of the Westshore Council of Governments

“Mayor Patton inquired if city council members would be informed. Mr. Kouwe indicated that he would make time to interview elected officials early in the studies if the mayors felt it was the appropriate time frame. Mayor Patton stated that since each city would be taking this issue to their city council for final approval it would be wise to involve council members from the beginning”
9-28-09

So it "seems" Kevin, you knew all along the answers to the question on if Lakewood residents would have the right to a Referendum vote.


“Mayor Clough expressed the desire for consultation and expertise from ESC to carry out the implementation of the study.”
7-08-09


“Mayor Sutherland distributed copies of the revised contract with Emergency Services Consulting International (ESCI) explaining the three major changes to the contract. Mayor Sutherland has negotiated with Phil Kouwe of ESCI to include the two day implementation kick- off session embedded in the contract at no additional charge.” Mr. Kouwe agreed with the following changes; that there would be only two community meetings on back to back nights and ESCI would provide two rather than three facilitators for the kick -off strategy session. Mayor Sutherland suggested that the cities of Rocky River and Westlake host the meetings. Mayor O’Grady suggested that the city of North Olmsted host one of the meetings.”
8-12-09

Why didnt Mayor Ed Fitzgerald ask to have a community meeting in Lakewood? Not that it will seemingly matter what we have to say, but would of been nice to have a Mayor who at least asked to have one Convenient for his residents to attend.

My question now is, who will be on the side of residents who no longer can trust their elected officals?

Shelley, respectfully, I will not ask our law department drop everything in order to research and provide an opinion on a charter issue that is unripe. As I've indicated, we haven't even seen the recommendations from the consultants studying a regional fire district. Until this becomes a seasonable issue, you'll have to look to someone other than me for help. I'm sorry you find that despicable, as you've said.

It is abundantly clear every community will wait to see what the Westshore fire study reveals before any further action can or will be taken. (Thanks for the cites, Bob.) You haven't seemed to appreciate that reality. I should add that every community's governance documents are different, so I'd be cautious about using Mayor Patton's or Mayor Clough's comments as any indication of how we'd handle our situation in Lakewood.

Many folks have provided their opinion in this forum on what the charter says with regard to fire operations; they may very well be exactly right. But it's a waste of resources to have our lawyers scrambling on something not pressing when they're already up to their necks in matters serving a great many more people than one.

I'll continue to invite you to our regular Council meetings, particularly if you'd like to continue this discussion and look for me to respond. Next up: Tuesday, Feb. 16 at 7:30 p.m.

Kevin

Kevin Butler wrote:Many folks have provided their opinion in this forum on what the charter says with regard to fire operations; they may very well be exactly right.

“Many folks have provided their opinion in this forum on what the charter says with regard to fire operations; they may very well be exactly right.” Then confirm it as fact.

They may well be exactly wrong also.

I also find the inferred absurdity of a residents questions demanding answers by you and others cute. When a resident demands transparency and openness from Lakewood’s elected officials, she’s verbally beaten up and craftily tried to be made to look ridicules. But when Mayor Ed Fitzgerald feigns outrage over a similar situation, it makes him a hero worthy of newspaper coverage and worthy of becoming the County Executive.:

“Yesterday I called on the County Transition Group to make ALL of its meetings open to the public. I've urged the leadership of the transition process to reconsider this decision immediately. 2010 is a year in which we must restore public confidence in our county government, and avoid even the appearance of secrecy. In order for the public to trust government, government must first trust the people."
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ed-FitzGe ... ref=tshere

To me, this is hypocrisy at its most absurd. And cruelty and brutality beyond excusable.

But hay, no one else in Lakewood, nor on this board feels that since Ed Fitzgerald became Mayor, the current batch of Council Members ascended the throne and the current school board came to power, there is a lack of transparency and or lack of consideration of public opinion. That’s just me, right Kevin.

You and your team can keep playing your games, and the rest of us will keep doing your jobs, ie, providing information to the public and fighting for residents opinion to be given voice and for the will of the people to be done.


We need for you, Council, Mayor and School board to stop making decisions for us, and to start listening to residents. We need you people to stop hiding information and skewing what little information you do allow us to have. We need you to allow folks who put in the effort to do studies, to do research and to attend meetings, actually have their hard work be brought to the table when it comes time to “make” a decision.

We need you people to keep in mind, the words of the one you admire so dearly:

In order for the public to trust government, government must first trust the people.

One of the downsides to the fad of transparency in government is that anyone, with or without understanding a situation, feels they have a right to demand constant personal service from our public servants, and the public servants end up spending too much time responding to someone who apparently will never be satisfied, which leaves them less time to do the work we hired them to do.

Senator Saxby had the answer, but today's politicians seem unwilling to deal so frankly with a cranky correspondent.

I would rather see our elected officials spend their time doing something about the unshoveled sidewalks throughout the city, than waste time attempt to mollify someone who just refuses to to accept any answer. After all, we all paid for that time and it seems unfair that a very few individuals can take up so much of it.

And I think not having a filtering capacity on this board is not a good idea, as we read posts hoping to find a pearl of wisdom, but having so many repetitive posts by one person makes it hard to read the others. Yes, I realize I can scroll through posts by any individual without reading them, but these vacuous postings are so long and so frequent that my scrolling finger cramps up.

Will Brown wrote:One of the downsides to the fad of transparency in government is that anyone, with or without understanding a situation, feels they have a right to demand constant personal service from our public servants, and the public servants end up spending too much time responding to someone who apparently will never be satisfied, which leaves them less time to do the work we hired them to do.

Senator Saxby had the answer, but today's politicians seem unwilling to deal so frankly with a cranky correspondent.

I would rather see our elected officials spend their time doing something about the unshoveled sidewalks throughout the city, than waste time attempt to mollify someone who just refuses to to accept any answer. After all, we all paid for that time and it seems unfair that a very few individuals can take up so much of it.

And I think not having a filtering capacity on this board is not a good idea, as we read posts hoping to find a pearl of wisdom, but having so many repetitive posts by one person makes it hard to read the others. Yes, I realize I can scroll through posts by any individual without reading them, but these vacuous postings are so long and so frequent that my scrolling finger cramps up.

Will

We have those features in your profile section.

In the end I think we are all framed and defined by our entire work of
posts and actions. One of the reasons we demanded real names.

We all have our topics, loves dislike and time frames.

That always ends up being a good thing for all.

We realize that Shelley has issues with city hall, as do others, that Bill Call hates unions, and contracts, that I have issues with LA's management team but like the idea and
appreciate the volunteers, and on and on and on.

In the end it helps us understand the community we all live in.

While I agree with you about wasting time and energy of coun cil and board, and other
civic leaders. The LO and the Deck was designed after speaking with all of them about
what they would NEED to take part in a very large ongoing discussion about all things
Lakewood. Those that cannot put up, are really starting to look like those that simply
cannot put up. While people like Ed FitzGerald, Kevin Butler, Michael Dever and Matt
Markling are standing out as those that can put up, explain themselves, and truly care
and undertsand about civic discourse in a 100% fair public arena.

FWIW


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Shelley Hurd wrote:

Kevin Butler wrote:Many folks have provided their opinion in this forum on what the charter says with regard to fire operations; they may very well be exactly right.

“Many folks have provided their opinion in this forum on what the charter says with regard to fire operations; they may very well be exactly right.” Then confirm it as fact.

They may well be exactly wrong also.

I also find the inferred absurdity of a residents questions demanding answers by you and others cute. When a resident demands transparency and openness from Lakewood’s elected officials, she’s verbally beaten up and craftily tried to be made to look ridicules.

Shelley - IMO, Kevin and the Mayor have been very polite considering that over the last year and a half YOU have been the verbal abuser. Look back through the garbage thread, the jail thread and others. Calling the council members lemmings who rubber stamp everything. I can't find the thread but you really went off on the Mayor in one post. You called him a lot of names. And now you expect them to jump again and again answering the same questions. Please tell me how you feel you were verbally abused.

Shelley Hurd wrote:But when Mayor Ed Fitzgerald feigns outrage over a similar situation, it makes him a hero worthy of newspaper coverage and worthy of becoming the County Executive.:

“Yesterday I called on the County Transition Group to make ALL of its meetings open to the public. I've urged the leadership of the transition process to reconsider this decision immediately. 2010 is a year in which we must restore public confidence in our county government, and avoid even the appearance of secrecy. In order for the public to trust government, government must first trust the people."
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Ed-FitzGe ... ref=tshere

To me, this is hypocrisy at its most absurd. And cruelty and brutality beyond excusable.

Every Lakewood council meeting is open to the public. To my knowledge, every WCG meeting is open to the public. ESCI will have two public comment sessions so you can voice your concerns. Every aspect of this is wide open. How is this hypocritical?

Shelley Hurd wrote:But hay, no one else in Lakewood, nor on this board feels that since Ed Fitzgerald became Mayor, the current batch of Council Members ascended the throne and the current school board came to power, there is a lack of transparency and or lack of consideration of public opinion. That’s just me, right Kevin.

Where, specifically, do you feel there is a lack of transparency and or lack of consideration of public opinion?

Shelley Hurd wrote:You and your team can keep playing your games, and the rest of us will keep doing your jobs, ie, providing information to the public and fighting for residents opinion to be given voice and for the will of the people to be done.

There are no games being played here. All the facts are there. The process is open to the public. All one has to do is interpret the facts and events, which is where I believe is the challenge.

Shelley Hurd wrote:We need for you, Council, Mayor and School board to stop making decisions for us, and to start listening to residents. We need you people to stop hiding information and skewing what little information you do allow us to have. We need you to allow folks who put in the effort to do studies, to do research and to attend meetings, actually have their hard work be brought to the table when it comes time to “make” a decision.

We need you people to keep in mind, the words of the one you admire so dearly:

In order for the public to trust government, government must first trust the people.

Council, Mayor and School Board are there TO make decisions for us and they DO listen to residents. Kevin and the Mayor listened to you. They answered your questions more than once. Help me understand how are they not listening?