The Observation Deck

stephen davis wrote:

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:Yeah, let's hold the government accountable AFTER we give them MORE money.

I'd forgotten how glad I am that you didn't get elected.

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Holy Man Crush Batman

Jim O'Bryan wrote: The levy simply must pass.

The levy must fail.

The ONLY reason a levy is needed is because the Geiger school board squandered millions on double digit pay raises and buy outs.

On a per student basis, Lakewood spends MILLIONS more per year than other more successful school systems.

The resposible thing to do is to demand cuts in pay and benefits that will balance the budget. The irresponsible thing to do is to demand tax increases to fund another round of raises and early retirements. That is ALL the levy is for.

The non teacher part of the union cabal had a meeting on Wednesday where it was decided to accept a one year wage freeze. The statement was made that "after the levy passes we will get it all back".

Bill Call wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote: The levy simply must pass.

The levy must fail.

The ONLY reason a levy is needed is because the Geiger school board squandered millions on double digit pay raises and buy outs.

On a per student basis, Lakewood spends MILLIONS more per year than other more successful school systems.

The resposible thing to do is to demand cuts in pay and benefits that will balance the budget. The irresponsible thing to do is to demand tax increases to fund another round of raises and early retirements. That is ALL the levy is for.

The non teacher part of the union cabal had a meeting on Wednesday where it was decided to accept a one year wage freeze. The statement was made that "after the levy passes we will get it all back".

Bill

I agre with 90% of your message. However you are working the equation wrong and you
know it. You live it. You are correct. Sadly we have come to a place and time where it
seems that we have got to watch even local officials like hawks.

I am so tired in the 21st century to keep hearing, "Well you should come to our meetings..."
No all meeting should be on TV, radio, in the paper, everywhere. Un edited! The
community obviously needs to watch every decision by elected officials, and sadly maybe
the non-profits. It is time to no longer hear, that it is our fault for not sitting through their
meetings which are often scheduled when other meetings are. Edited meetings on TV, and
on and on.

What we cannot do especially in this economic climate, is miss oppotunities like this to
continue to move the educational bar forward.

Vote for the levy, watch them like hawks. Hold EVERYONE getting public $$$$$$$
accountable, everyday, not just once every four years.

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Buy-outs can certainly be expensive, but they can also be cost and education-effective in the long run.

New younger staff generally have the latest training, oftentimes fewer expensive medical issues to deal with, and certainly, they can possess the idealism of youth.

Plus, they come cheaper. And they will be cheaper to pay for, than experienced staff; for many years to come.

Older staff experiences and techniques, on the other hand, certainly have contributed to Lakewood's "excellent" ratings educationally. Their experience will be sorely missed as they move on.

It's true that salaries and benefits are often the major expenses of a school district. It is also true that certified and classified staff have the right to participate in the collective bargaining process. People do not work for free. They have a right to receive as much compensation as they can bargain for.

The thing is, Lakewood does not exist in a vacuum. Lakewood administrators and teachers did agree to salary freezes for the time being, but... even if they were to hypothetically agree to some kind of reduction in salary and benefits, other surrounding districts would then become super-magnets for the best and brightest Lakewood staff members to jump off our then-to-be-sinking ship and swim for greener pastures elsewhere. (How's that for mixing metaphors?) (smile)

In order to achieve excellence, we must pay for it, and the single greatest resource a school district has are its educators. You need good teachers. Do you think it to be an accident that the districts who pay their teachers the highest salaries also tend to have the highest performing schools?

Quality costs money. Young, ultra-highly qualified teachers coming out of college very naturally look for the better paying districts first, and they do tend to find them.

We know what happens if a levy fails. Programs get cut, schools can close, quality of education suffers, community property values tank even lower, and the perception of a community changes drastically.

Our (so far) sterling educational opportunities in Lakewood are among the relatively few great things that we can point to, in a city otherwise having many difficult issues to contend with.

The levy must pass.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:You live it. You are correct. Sadly we have come to a place and time where it
seems that we have got to watch even local officials like hawks.

My heart really isn't in this fight.

We have good, solid, well meaning leadership on the school board. We have a lot of dedicated hard working teachers and administrators. We have a good superintendent.

However, this country is full of good, solid, hardworking and dedicated employees who are taking pay cuts, who lose their pensions, who work until they are 70 years old, who pay 50% of their medical benefits who are now being asked to pay some of the highest taxes in the country so government employees can escape the sacrifice.

The conundrum for the school board is that the attitude of the government union is: Give us what we want or we will destroy your schools (city), (state), (government), (organization).

Teacher's unions are not paid for, or run, by a government. Nor is any other American union, for that matter, that I am aware of. For many years, there were no unions representing teachers or public employees effectively, at least until the courts decided that public employees had the same rights as other employees in the private sector did:

To organize, unionize, to collective bargaining....to seek a better life for their families.

Unions are just about the only way that a common person can try to get a fair shake from an employer. Take unions away, and essentially, you can take away 8 hour days, benefits of any sort, salary negotiations of any sort, and ultimately, the same human rights that people who TRULY love liberty everywhere strive for.

You basically might as well return to a slave labor system for the everyday person to endure.

Look at our country, over the last 50 years.

We've lost so much with electronics, manufacturing, textiles, photographic, you-name it...

There are those who might blame the unions for that, but why? How can workers seeking only a better life for themselves be responsible for such a thing to happen? The fact remains that America simply has not effectively protected its working men and women from economic hardship and ruin from the challenges of the international marketplace.

That's not exclusively the worker's fault. They can only give back so much. They have mouths to feed as well.

I will allow that there are complex problems here that will not be solved in Lakewood alone, if indeed they will ever be anywhere. There's plenty of blame to go around, as well. As a practical and pragmatic point though, ideology only goes so far. We have to live realistically. If we let our schools go down the tubes, we may as well hang it up.

Bill Call wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:You live it. You are correct. Sadly we have come to a place and time where it
seems that we have got to watch even local officials like hawks.

My heart really isn't in this fight.

Bill

You hate unions. I personally am no longer convinced they are fighting for their members.

But it goes back the Hillard Medical Building and the Clinic. You cannot fault the Clinic for
getting that building for FREE. You can fault the city for giving it to them.

It was the board, that should have stood their ground in the negotiations. They should have
said, go ahead walk. Let the union take the low road.

I belive we have good people in the city and schools. But I think, they could do better.

But I am willing to put that aside for now, and fight for the levy.


Gary

I am willing to bet in the school systems with the higher paid teachers, they have students
that come to school well fed, and rested. That they have two parents working 1 job between
them allowing a parent to work with the children on homework. I am willing to bet that
all of their students have known since kindergarten they are attending college no matter
what happens.

This is what makes the achievements of Lakewood Schools so staggering. With a massive
transient population, first year students, students with English as a second language we
are achieving very good results.

FWIW


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As I said, there are many complex issues here that may well be beyond our ability to repair completely.

Still, as long as there are great caring people in Lakewood, we can certainly patch the tires and keep rollin'.

Back to the banjo...

It was the board, that should have stood their ground in the negotiations. They should have said, go ahead walk. Let the union take the low road.

Jim,

I don't think that that would have been good for the kids. Why would the school board place the kids in such a position...a position of having their teachers walk? That wouldn't have been good for the kids;the kids shouldn't pay the price for the perceived issues with the union-right? Remember:Every Period-Every Day!

Jim,

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I agre with 90% of your message.

Really? 90%?



Let's look at this again.

Jim O'Bryan wrote: The levy simply must pass.

Bill Call wrote:The levy must fail.

While 60% of the actual words in these important statements match, the messages are in 100% disagreement.



What else?

Bill Call wrote:The ONLY reason a levy is needed is because the Geiger school board squandered millions on double digit pay raises and buy outs.

Over what period of time are we talking "double digit pay raises"? Chas Geiger was on the school board a long time. Accumulated pay raises in that time could have easily topped a single-digit percentage increase for almost any worker.

"ONLY reason"? Do you suppose energy, insurance, and other costs may have risen in that time period? Will decreased property values impact school revenue from taxes?

Chas Geiger is no longer on the school board.

Bill Call wrote:On a per student basis, Lakewood spends MILLIONS more per year than other more successful school systems.

False. Just look at that statement. "MILLIONS more per year" on a "per student basis"? (I don't have the number, so I hope somebody steps in with the approximate average annual cost per student in Lakewood. Is it 8, 10, 12 thousand dollars?)

Bill Call wrote:The resposible thing to do is to demand cuts in pay and benefits that will balance the budget. The irresponsible thing to do is to demand tax increases to fund another round of raises and early retirements. That is ALL the levy is for.

The irresponsible thing to do is to misrepresent the truth, or create a false narrative from a kernel of truth. Not mentioned here is the fact that buyouts and early retirements are done to SAVE money.

Bill Call wrote:The non teacher part of the union cabal had a meeting on Wednesday where it was decided to accept a one year wage freeze. The statement was made that "after the levy passes we will get it all back".

Wage freeze = good thing
Unattributed statement = almost nothing

Jim O'Bryan wrote:I agre with 90% of your message.

Really? Did the rest of Bill's compelling message drop you from 100% to only 10% disagreement?


Steve

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My point does not speak to whether the levy should pass or fail, that was conveniently interpreted (probably emanating from Steve Davis' obsession with me).

I am asking to see what the plan looks like for these properties. There isn't one at the current time. The fact that a charter school may snatch it up is not a good enough reason to hold onto them. That law has been in place for a long time and is not going to change anytime soon. So the real question is how long should the school system hold onto properties that could generate property tax for the city and schools or serve a better purpose?

Jim- How many people have moved to Lakewood because we built new schools? Where do you get those numbers?

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote:I am asking to see what the plan looks like for these properties. There isn't one at the current time. The fact that a charter school may snatch it up is not a good enough reason to hold onto them. That law has been in place for a long time and is not going to change anytime soon. So the real question is how long should the school system hold onto properties that could generate property tax for the city and schools or serve a better purpose?

I think time is on our side with this one. In this economic environment, I don't think there is a demand for those properties, hence values are low. We can wait, unless an attractive offer is made.

There are plenty of existing commercial properties that sit empty in Lakewood right now. The old Rego's/Giant Eagle, Ganley Subaru, and the proposed site for Applebee's, are just a few that come to mind.

Even churches are sitting empty.

As an aside, whenever I read about charter schools, I think the headline should be, "Republicans Endorse Taxation Without Representation".

.

Let me walk the tight rope between Steve and Ryan.

I would say that they have moved because of our dedication to education
not merely new schools. The new schools are just the visible sign that
other cities see as do the residents.

I know of many that moved here for the schools.


Steve Davis

As you point out I might be dyslexic.

Now for your enjoyment.

As an aside, whenever I read about charter schools, I think the headline should be, "Republicans Endorse Taxation Without Representation".

Seems to mean the opposite to me.. Tax payers creating another choice for their children.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_taxatio ... esentation

No taxation without representation" began as a slogan in the period 1763–1776 that summarized a primary grievance of the British colonists in the Thirteen Colonies. In short, many in those colonies believed the lack of direct representation in the distant British Parliament was an illegal denial of their rights as Englishmen, and therefore laws taxing the colonists (the kind of law that affects the most individuals directly), and other laws applying only to the colonies, were unconstitutional. In recent times, it has been used by several other groups in several different countries over similar disputes.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/charter%20school

charter school
n. A public school operated independently of the local school board, often with a curriculum and educational philosophy different from the other schools in the system.

Shall we let the kids speak?