The Observation Deck

Thealexa Becker wrote:I have no idea why in the world you are attempting to equate 1984 with "regionalism". You either don't understand the book or you are blowing this thing way out of proportion.

TeamNEO is hardly Big Brother. The information about them online is hardly frightening enough to merit that comparison. They're just promoting themselves by promoting regional business. Not that hair-brained an idea.

Sure, it wouldn't be a good idea for Lakewood to mesh with Cleveland, but there is no reason why organizations or individuals that are trying to collectivize resources should be demonized.

I can understand that some people on this board might be opposed to the idea of regionalization, and that's your right, but it is foolish to be so dead set against the idea that you cannot even hear the other side or positive aspects without balking. It's closed-mindedness akin to this that keeps progress from being made.

I also agree that Lakewood needs to improve itself first, but I don't see many people fixing the empty storefronts. And I wonder how everyone will vote on the school levy?

Thealexa

Start a new thread for the levy.

The very real issue is not the demonization of Team Neo, CLE +, etc. but the entire process
is flawed, and being shoved down our throats by who? As Charlie Page pointed out, all of
these groups are related. So who is footing the bill? I know of many people that have
been co-opted into movements they think are fun and positive only to find out the punchline
after the damage is done. I remember one story of a high school writer that went to a
special meeting thinking it was all good, only to see the problems, stand up and walk out.

So Lakewood pulled out of RITA, and it has paid big dividends, Regional Transit Authority
cuts Lakewood without any discussion or thought of how it affects Lakewood. Other
regional groups are using Lakewood for a dumping ground for homeless etc. This is what
Charlie, Bill, Ken, Dan, and many who have sat through meeting after meeting on why
regionalism is good end up saying think about it first. If it is so good why the endless
hard sell? Why the never ending push? I will tell you why. That is what they get paid to
do. Not make our lives better, but to shove regionalism down our throats as many
different ways as possible. Because it is the slippery slope I pointed out. Once you get
there, you ain't never coming back.

Lakewood has been singled out, because we have a unique situation, and a school system
and award winning library that was fighting the trend. So we get "voices and choices", and
Team Neo telling civic leaders WE MUST BECOME REGIONAL. Meanwhile they infiltrate
every aspect of Lakewood's daily life, to show us how much fun it is, how good it is...

As far as the 1984 link, it is easy. Speak against them, question them, and you are scorned
belittled, insulted and NEVER given answers you seek. To me it is far closer to 1984,
than a healthy Lakewood that empowers its citizens to think and work, not control their
work or make them think they are buying into things already decided for them by Big
Brother.

Most Depressing Quotes from Orwell's 1984

TRAMPLED UPON

"Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but more merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress toward more pain."

THREE SLOGANS

"From where Winston stood it was just possible to read, picked out on its white face in elegant lettering, the three slogans of the Party:
WAR IS PEACE
FREEDOM IS SLAVERY
IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH."

PURE POWER
"The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power. Not wealth or luxury or long life or happiness: only power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from all the oligarchies of the past, in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just round the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power."

ERRONEOUS THOUGHT
"We are not content with negative obedience, nor even with the most abject submission. When finally you surrender to us, it must be of your own free will. We do not destroy the heretic because he resists us; so long as he resists us we never destroy him. We convert him, we capture his inner mind, we reshape him. We burn all evil and all illusion out of him; we bring him over to our side, not in appearance, but genuinely, heart and soul. We make him one of ourselves before we kill him. It is intolerable to us that an erroneous thought should exist anywhere in the world, however secret and powerless it may be. Even in the instance of death we cannot permit any deviation . . . we make the brain perfect before we blow it out."

PERFECT UNITY
"The ideal set up by the Party was something huge, terrible, and glittering—a world of steel and concrete, of monstrous machines and terrifying weapons—a nation of warriors and fanatics, marching forward in perfect unity, all thinking the same thoughts and shouting the same slogans, perpetually working, fighting, triumphing, persecuting—three hundred million people all with the same face."


.

Jim,

First of all, I find it ironic that while you cry foul on these regionalist promoting organizations for using scare tactics, you yourself are using them by quoting erroneously the novel 1984. Anyone who has ever read that book, and understood it, will find it hilarious that you are trying to compare a distopian society of that nature to pro-regionalist groups in Lakewood. Your quotes almost made me bust a gut.

Take it from me, who has studied this book extensively, that those quotes have NOTHING to do with this situation. It's like using Dante's Inferno as your guide to punishing a rowdy 5 year old. It's overkill.

In the spirit of questioning, as you aforementioned, if Lakewood is so thriving and such a target to parasitic groups, why are there so many empty storefronts and houses? Where are Panera's and Applebee's? Why do small businesses falter so quickly? Why are the taxes so high?

Lakewood is not Eden, it has its fair share of problems, some of which could potentially be fixed by the regionalization of certain services. But without a fair discussion, that involves more than just the most activist members of the community, we will never know.

As to knowing things, your descriptions of these meetings, situations, and "shoving down our throats" regarding regionalism are vague. I live in Lakewood, have all my life. Where are all these people trying to sell how cool the city is to me? Where are these organizations pervading into my day to day life? Be more specific instead of trying to be cryptic for effect and you might get some more people to validate your point. As it stands now, it sounds like a rant.

Lakewood does not have that unique a situation. Certainly our library is exceptional, but there are better school districts in the "CLE+" area and certainly more diverse populations. Lakewood might be more accepting of its population, but it doesn't have a monopoly on diversity.

What would be beneficial to this entire discussion is some clarity.

For example, instead of railing against the philosophical and theoretical merits of regionalism, how about some cold, hard proposals? What is to be gained by holding vague and cryptic debates? Nothing, just angry people making extreme statements and comparisons.

If this idea is so prevalent with that many groups like CLE+ and TeamNEO vying for Lakewood's support, why don't one of you organize a community discussion?

Thealexa Becker wrote:TeamNEO is hardly Big Brother. The information about them online is hardly frightening enough to merit that comparison. They're just promoting themselves by promoting regional business. Not that hair-brained an idea.

I agree. Promoting a 16 county region makes more sense when attempting to attract and retain businesses. The region has more to offer than any one city. That's what most of these groups are trying to do...attract new and retain business. Nothing wrong with that. However, when they start promoting regional government...that's when I don't agree with them.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:So who is footing the bill?

Dozens and dozens of corporations and I would guess some level of taxpayer a$$i$tance.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Speak against them, question them, and you are scorned
belittled, insulted and NEVER given answers you seek.

Are you talking about liberals or regionalists?

Hi,
Ms. Becker, we do have several subthreads going here. You repeatedly bring up all the empty storefronts on Lakewood's commercial corridors. Could you explain how this proposal will help in any way to fill just 1 store front? Why, if you are concerned about that (which we all should be), I recommend supporting MAMA and DADA with your free time over a regionalization group. Mr. OB has done a super job of getting those groups off the ground and the City could go much farther assisting with that goal by making some changes in their code to support businesses.

I do not see Lakewood benefiting from regionalization in any significant way. The areas that would be aided are the worst areas in the region. Lakewood's involvement in regionalization would aid on improving these worst areas. Can you explain how I am wrong about this concern?

But there are a few "most critical" jobs of a local government and I think Safely is on the top on that list. That is Police and Fire services. If these services are not under our local government's control, then the service performed by the local government is greatly diminished. I'm really confused that winning the contest will produce unbiased results. That's a lot of money to restudy an issue.

I wish these regional groups were focused more on bringing jobs to the area than they are concerned about altering the underpinning of our local government.

Thealexa

You cannot look at the surface, you have to look at the bones, guts, and what they are
really bringing to the table. At the same time "1984" was a very real reference to the
state of the region and America. Much of it is based on the tactics of recent Republicans
and other groups looking to mass power, for "their" own good. Sometimes that is for the
good of all, sometimes it is nothing more than keeping themselves employed.

Then you need to look deep into the actions of the groups, their funding, and who the
players are and where they come from. I think the entire city can finally agree that the
WestEnd strip mall at the end of Lakewood would have bankrupted the city either
immediately, or certainly within 5 years. But look at who sold that to us as a panacea
of goodness and future strength. Then look at how it was sold. Mostly through tea
parties and spiral dynamics. Isolate, make it fun, drill down into their needs and tell
them anything, even lie, to get the project moving forward.

Many of the people believed they were doing good. I mean it was fun, and their friends
would not lie to them. It has to be good for Lakewood. In fact it would have been the
death of Lakewood. Now I would like to believe that most believed what they were saying
was true, but infact the lies out numbered the truth and good people had been turned
into Manchurians. Still a very small group were lying and seeding lies, strictly for their
own benefit. Which came in the form of $$$$$, fame, ego, wealth, lower taxes, and even
family fortunes to be built and realized. Now where are those players today? Let me give
you a hint, two key players in Lakewood turned to each other the night it was voted down
and said, "We will form a group and bring it back again and again until we succeed." My
good friend was actually standing with them when it was said.

So back to 1984 as the easy punchline. When people form groups that say one thing but
mean another, we call them Orwellian. GWB's "Clear Skies" program that allow companies
to put more toxics into the air.

While we can all agree that it would be nice to get companies back into the region. I
question how it will ever really benefit Lakewood in my lifetime, or even yours. And look
behind the scenes, at what is really going on, dig deeper as Charlie has done and what
you see is a whole industry making money on selling us regionalism, while very few if any
are even remotely succeeding in making the region any better. With all of these groups
working so hard, why is the region "The most boring place," "the least attractive place,"
"the city with the most leaving it..." and on and on and on. Where are the results?

There are plans, and many have been instituted, and many that are working coming right
out of Lakewood, that are the models for the world. They came from a pretty large group
of very smart people. But they were designed to set Lakewood apart from the region. To
be the shinning star in the region, and to be the one box on the shelf that was not yellow
and black. Of course the leader of that movement was just run out of town, for being
to successful, thinking out of the box. Again, the 1984 innuendo. Dare to think differently
dare to speak out, and you will be run out of the city.

The rest of the Big Brother thing comes with Facebook, Linked In etc. A friend of mine
a Clevelander, Valdis Krebs created the software that helps track AlQuaida, and the
skeleton when you go behind the scenes and look at the social networking and mapping
is no different from facebook, and Linked-in. Find a way for them to unveil their social
network, step into the middle, and you can control the process, and track the significant
players and non-players.

You like to read, read "slaughter of cities" you do not need fiction, the truth is more
frightening. Go to the Libraries website and watch Ken Warren explain spiral dynamics
and then you can see how it is being used in Lakewood. Do your homework, find the truth
cause you cannot appreciate the game with the rules and a scorecard. I have yet to get
one person to read "Slaughter of Cities" that hasn't said, this is Lakewood right now.

Charley

They very real fact is, regionalism just needs to get its foot in the door, anyway it can. Then it can grow until the entire region is one government, one thought, one profit center,
one controlling group. But it needs to get in the door, so far the region seems to be too
smart to give up home rule for magic beans.

FWIW


.

Mr. Farris,

I don't support or oppose regionalism, I just want there to be less biased, inter-communal discussion on the merits of this issue. No one is saying that Jim hasn't helped promote DADA or MAMA. I don't know what will help the city but I think that any avenue is better to explore than to just sit on our thumbs.

Yes, if Lakewood were part of regionalization, it would help aid the worst areas, but then again, some of Lakewood might be helped as well. I think your concern shows a narrowmindedness in that Lakewood cannot act as an island, not in this current state of affairs. To just brush everyone off, even in things that don't involve regionalism, will get everyone into a deeper hole.

The fact of the matter is that this whole area is going downhill. I'm not the only one who thinks this, there was an editorial in the paper today about it. To just dismiss an idea, whether it be regionalism or sharing safety services, because of decades old rugged individualism on the part of the western suburbs is silly.

There needs to be more discussion.

Jim,
I am not looking only at the surface. I don't think many people do. I just question your literary allusions because they seem far to conspiratorial to be taken seriously. As for groups/people that say one thing and mean another, that's called lying, not Orwellian. And most people have lied at one point or another, but I still wouldn't call this 1984.

As for people looking out for their own good, who doesn't? You are, as are others, who express their concern for Lakewood's well being because you live here. So much of what you are saying is becoming so platitudinal that it lacks impact. It's almost like you want this to be conspiratorial. Like I alluded to before, if it were as dire a situation as you continue to suggest using 1984, how come most people haven't felt the pressure? Businesses and organizations try to move in on cities and people all the time, if the consensus from the community is "no", they will go away.

However, since this issue has never been properly discussed outside of this forum, there is no way of knowing that. Thus I reiterate for those who frequently misinterpret me, I am a proponent of rational, inclusive, community discussion on this issue, as I would be for anything of this magnitude. I am not standing on one side of the fence or the other.

As for the WestEnd, I think you're wrong. And I think the city needs to lower business taxes. After, Crocker Park has helped Westlake. We could have had a similar situation.

As to why this city gets a negative rap, there are many many reasons. Half of it's bull anyway.

Again, specificity as to who this leader is who was run out of town would be nice. Otherwise, your allusion is lost.

As for Facebook, its a goofy website anyway. That's why I don't use it or suggest using it.

I might check out that book after reading Van Jones' "The Green Collar Economy". Talks about how cities and regions and the national government should collaborate to create more jobs and a better environment. Something Lakewood should look into.

Thealexa Becker wrote:Mr. Farris,
Yes, if Lakewood were part of regionalization, it would help aid the worst areas, but then again, some of Lakewood might be helped as well. I think your concern shows a narrowmindedness in that Lakewood cannot act as an island, not in this current state of affairs. To just brush everyone off, even in things that don't involve regionalism, will get everyone into a deeper hole.

Thealexa
How does the region of CLE+ / all regional groups from Youngstown to Sandusky help
Lakewood or for that matter Cleveland? Property is cheaper as is labor in Youngstown,
Massilon, Akron, Canton, Sandusky etc. So that if the regionalists ever actually did anything
and say bring Motorola with 50,000 jobs to Youngstown, all you would hear is a loud
sucking sound from Lakewood and Cleveland, breaking the backs of the region. Though
I am sure someone would get a large finder's fee.

Now I know you might take this wrong, and not understand, some of the Observers are
actually owned and run by "regionalists." I think Heights would be a perfect example,
the Greater University Circle Observer is also well funded by some of the most famous
regionalists in the region. I have a very good working relationship with some of the
regionalists companies mentioned in this thread. I understand what they are trying to
do and in East Cleveland, and other places it makes sense as a last ditch attempt to get
anything going. However in Lakewood, we can afford to take our time, we can afford to
hunt and peck for programs that make sense, and that do not trap us in the regional
quick sand. This is what I am saying, we can afford to be the other option in the region.

At the same time it has been made clear to me that the "regionalists" do not feel that way.
They see Lakewood as a stronghold for singular thinking and out of the box thinking.
That we are the problem child. Look at the latest maps from the Cleveland Plain Dealer
another great regional effort . They have Lakewood as an island in the region of
11 regions. We are still part of the region, but respected as Lakewood.

Thealexa Becker wrote:I am not looking only at the surface. I don't think many people do. I just question your literary allusions because they seem far to conspiratorial to be taken seriously. As for groups/people that say one thing and mean another, that's called lying, not Orwellian. And most people have lied at one point or another, but I still wouldn't call this 1984.

They get really mad when you call them liars. But when it is done again and again then
it is compulsive, and in mixed company called Orwellian. It is not 1984 yet, but coming
very close, look at the news yesterday that GWB and friends wanted to us the US Army
against Americans. That the single biggest push in regionalism is from the right. That
linked in and Facebook appears as silly websites to you, but the fact is if you could see
their backdoor you would see, that I am sure you are but one "friendship" away from
getting your backdoor kicked in, if needed. Thealexa Becker, we had to, she was linked
in with Al Quiada, the Observer, that criminal, etc. The power of this software, and the
release of this software is not some foolish game, it lets the "owners" understand your
base of friends and beyond, to a point you can no longer control or explain. We have all
played "seven degrees of separation from Kevin Bacon." Most people can get connected
to Kevin Bacon in 5 or less. We have Carnivore that can track all emails, and web visits.
Big brother is here.

Thealexa Becker wrote:As for people looking out for their own good, who doesn't? You are, as are others, who express their concern for Lakewood's well being because you live here. So much of what you are saying is becoming so platitudinal that it lacks impact. It's almost like you want this to be conspiratorial. Like I alluded to before, if it were as dire a situation as you continue to suggest using 1984, how come most people haven't felt the pressure? Businesses and organizations try to move in on cities and people all the time, if the consensus from the community is "no", they will go away.

It only sounds conspiratorial as that is how you are choosing to see it, and to a certain
extent because it is. Let's say we have one person in this town, that is driven by power
and he is employed by a regionalist group. That person then works overtime to head
up committees and groups with the schools, the government, and the city. Then starts
to exploit those entanglements first for his own good, then to feed his ego, then to make
sure he has a job. Conspiratorial? According to Webster, not yet. Then he works with like
minded people to change a city over say ten years to his/their model feed on ego, and
the fact he/they hate to loose. Even when the evidence is presented to them they continue
and start to grab power in government, the school boards, even getting these groups to
fund their efforts. Conspiratorial? Getting closer. Now these people do most of their work
behind closed doors, and the heads work overtime to make sure they are not even really
connected to the groups. They use tax dollars but now find themselves so powerful they
can look tax payers in the eye and say no thank you, WE DO NOT NEED TO ANSWER TO
YOU. Conspiratorial? Well Websters says two or more people plotting together...

Thealexa Becker wrote:However, since this issue has never been properly discussed outside of this forum, there is no way of knowing that. Thus I reiterate for those who frequently misinterpret me, I am a proponent of rational, inclusive, community discussion on this issue, as I would be for anything of this magnitude. I am not standing on one side of the fence or the other.

Oh they will lecture you, they will teach you, they will educate you, but discuss it?

Thealexa Becker wrote:As for the WestEnd, I think you're wrong. And I think the city needs to lower business taxes. After, Crocker Park has helped Westlake. We could have had a similar situation.

The WestEnd would have failed immediately. What many did not know, some in power
did, but would not tell even friends because the cost of winning was so important in
people's career and the future of those fighting for the WestEnd, was the mayor had asked
the mayor of Cleveland to hold off on the lawsuit they were going to levy against the
developers of the failure called Shaker Square. The amount owed $25 million. So had the
WestEnd passed the developers would have gotten $20 million from Lakewood, that would
have gone immediately to Cleveland to settle the lawsuit. Which means Lakewood would
probably be suing the developers for our lost and borrowed $20 million. Tom Jordan the
old planning director for Lakewood who was very pro-WestEnd has stated publicly it would
have bankrupted the city had it gone through five years ago. Think of it.

I used to ask the mayor at the time, what is phase two, and she would chuckle and say
"nothing is called phase two." I would always respond, "well what was it called." 8 years
later I would learn, she was lying, and to protect who? The next phase was "The Cliffs"
virtually all of their early paperwork was signed by Mayor Cain. How do I know this? Rick
Foran himself gave me the paperwork when he wanted help in getting access through the
park to the Cliffs. Now take a step farther back and look, who was fighting what and
for who?

Thealexa Becker wrote:As to why this city gets a negative rap, there are many many reasons. Half of it's bull anyway.

See we agree, it is all Bull, we are the new Kuwait, we live on one of the largest bodies
of fresh water in the world. The summers are nice, as are the winters. You can commute
anywhere in minutes, the schools are good and the libraries are better. So one would ask
why the bad rap. Read "slaughter of cities" they must move us around and devalue our
properties if they can develop and build. Buy low, sell high, devalue, and do it again.

Thealexa Becker wrote:Again, specificity as to who this leader is who was run out of town would be nice. Otherwise, your allusion is lost.

Kenneth Warren, and now Kim Paras. Go read the LO Fun Contest and the Kenneth Warren
Grand Reading Room. Go back and read Ken's post, and what is going on. Ask his friends,
and coworkers. The man who dared to dream big dreams for all Lakewoodites, as he often
said Lakewood is the best place to be, left. Why? Why would Kim Paras not even apply for
a great job she could have easily been in the running for? You have read how much Kim
and Ken loved Lakewood, what changed?

Thealexa Becker wrote:As for Facebook, its a goofy website anyway. That's why I don't use it or suggest using it.

See the smoke and mirrors works. Is it silly? No! It is outlining your social network for
the owners and the NSA. But that was not fast enough so hence we have Linked-In. These
are not silly, this is Big Brother coming for you. they just have to convince you that they
are silly so you have no fear using them. Guess who the joke is on?

Thealexa Becker wrote:I might check out that book after reading Van Jones' "The Green Collar Economy". Talks about how cities and regions and the national government should collaborate to create more jobs and a better environment. Something Lakewood should look into.

Thealexa, then read Friedman. Then read Jane Jacobs. They will make you sit on your
porch and smile, because we truly live in a great location, in one of the best cities in that
location. A city perfectly situated for the future. All we have to do is not screw it up.

Always love kicking it with you.

.

PS - the great thing about conspiracies, is there are so many they work against each
other, thereby letting the rest of us breathe and relax.

.

Poor little minions at the bottom of a pyramid of lies, when will you open your eyes?

You're blind to the consolidation of world power who's seeds are sown at the local level

Happily cultivated by scores of educated derelicts building their own prisons.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Other regional groups are using Lakewood for a dumping ground for homeless etc.

Speaking of the "etc", I got an update email from the County sex offender listing the other day. Just for kicks I decided to see how many are registered in Lakewood....75 as of this writing.

Bay Village has 3
Rocky River has 8
Westlake has 9
Fairview Park has 18
Cleveland Heights has 51
North Olmsted has 31

I'm not suggesting they are being dumped on Lakewood but it does make me wonder why there seems to be a disproportional number here.

Charlie Page wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Other regional groups are using Lakewood for a dumping ground for homeless etc.

Speaking of the "etc", I got an update email from the County sex offender listing the other day. Just for kicks I decided to see how many are registered in Lakewood....75 as of this writing.

Bay Village has 3
Rocky River has 8
Westlake has 9
Fairview Park has 18
Cleveland Heights has 51
North Olmsted has 31

I'm not suggesting they are being dumped on Lakewood but it does make me wonder why there seems to be a disproportional number here.

Cheap rents?

Again I see much of this tied to the housing stock issue. Also some of the people dumping
are doing it with a city they tend to be familiar with. Speaking with another person who
we all know it Lakewood we were going through the groups we knew and stopped at
12. Then it occurred to me that many might even know of the work of others.

The real truth is all of these people deserve a safe place to live, but I always look at cities
like boats. You have to keep them afloat or we all go down.

.

Hi,
I saw this story today, After years of decline, Cleveland aims to go green and I thought great! Finally, NE Ohio is going to begin taking steps to develop green industries and get jobs into the area,

Well, then I read the story. It's the most depressing thing I've read in awhile. This is the best they can come up with?

Geez! It makes giving away control of our safety forces sound good.

So, Don, let me get this straight.

County leaders will enter into what amounts to a 20, 30 or 40 year mortgage with investors (Municipal Bonds) to purchase and demolish homes where the owners couldn't pay the mortgages in hopes of increasing overall property values so that the bonds can be repaied decades down the road via (cross your fingers) increases in property tax revenue.

This seems perfectly logical.

Donald Farris wrote:Well, then I read the story. It's the most depressing thing I've read in awhile. This is the best they can come up with?

Geez! It makes giving away control of our safety forces sound good.

Don

"Once a proud manufacturing powerhouse, Cleveland has lost nearly 10 percent of its population since 2000, the fastest drop of any U.S. city except for hurricane-hit New Orleans.

The city which was once America's fifth largest now ranks 41st in the U.S. Census with a population of 433,748."

Ironically almost as long as CLE+ and groups like Team Neo have been working their magic to save the city! Yeah this regional thing is working out great for all of us.

On a much brighter note, AGS/Observer Inc. are part of a massive intiative on the east side of Cleveland
that is working hard, and working even harder to stay out of the press. Largest green cleaner in America, photo cells on top of all public buildings, water rights, community
owned and operated papers, etc.

Should really be something when done in 5 years. The key, green and very hyper local.

thanks for the post.

.

Yeah, the region has it all together!

According to your "friends" facebook page
we got it all together...
...red is the new black
...Thai Food is the new Mexican Food
...drink the blue koolaid
...don't look at the man behind the curtain





.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:According to your "friends" facebook page
we got it all together...
...red is the new black
...Thai Food is the new Mexican Food
...drink the blue koolaid
...don't look at the man behind the curtain


.

Red is the new black. Or you could wear red and black just to be sure you're fashionable. I do.