The Observation Deck

Bret Callentine wrote:As an Independent, I consider myself a Fiscal Conservative, a Social Liberal, and a Governmental Libertarian.

Social liberal? How does that fit in with personal accountability?

I saw one too many Obama=Hitler to give it my full-throated support, though.

Brian, was this on TV? Because I did not recall seeing anything like this at the Cleveland rally, and I was actively looking.

If these rallies continue to be primarily about how Obama is the Devil and the Democrats the Horsemen of the Apocalypse,...

Once again, I don't know what happened at the other rallies, but this is not an accurate description of what happened at the Cleveland rally. Please cite the source of your information.

Social liberal? How does that fit in with personal accountability?

actually, the only way it works is with a high degree of personal accountabilty. I believe that there is a way for the Government to offer a safety net here and there, it just can't sustain becoming a hammock.

Indeed, Bret, I'm responding primarily to images seen in MSM of protesters in other cities.

But let's see if I can find some good representatives of the Cleveland crowd on Flickr:

People who get it:
I like her sign. Wish it was bigger
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcat32/3319474494/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/kenlefeb/3445282311/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bigcat32/3313731419/

People who maybe don't:
This sign? Not helpful. At all.
Guys like this remind me of the folks who thought Bush was gonna declare martial law and cancel the elections
Uh, yeah. I see what you did there. But shouldn't be "AIG Lied.." or something like that? What did Obama lie about and how did it make the economy die? Fail.
Guess all the good signs were taken...

By the way, I've been flying my Gadsden flag since the PATRIOT Act was passed, and I ain't stopping now.

I walked past the protestors who had gathered in front of the cleveland browns tax subsidied stadium. I walked down to the port. there was a fence with a sign that told me not to visit port unless I was authorized! So I did not visit the port.

I drove to westlake. I got lost in the parking lots. There were many branch banks near the crocker park mall. all the best names that needed federal bailouts so recently. something called Wachovia. and the others.

If I could tear down the signs on their westlake office walls, secure it to my automobile, drive it down I-90, and find the right parking lot entrance to the Port, I could dump their office signs in the port.

Bret Callentine wrote:

Social liberal? How does that fit in with personal accountability?

actually, the only way it works is with a high degree of personal accountabilty. I believe that there is a way for the Government to offer a safety net here and there, it just can't sustain becoming a hammock.

Safety net, yes. Way of life, no.

But that goes against the liberal way of thinking. Everybody is a victim (except for the nasty rich) and its not your fault but here is a government program to assist you. Here's another government program to assist you. And the government is increasing assistance again because its not your fault. That's why income redistribution is the second largest federal expense and increases every year. Coincidentally, personal accountability seems to be decreasing every year.

Funny all you fiscal conservatives didn't do this when all the tax breaks were being given to corpororations and the rich.

Oh no, when they lose their cuts, they sponsor this stuff, call it a grassroots movement, incited by Faux News, Rush Limpbow, Glenn Beck and the rest of the mouthpieces.

Funny, when the middle class gets tax cuts for the first time in how many years? all these protests happen.

Let's call it what it is - racism. These are protests against a black president.

Justify it, spin it, twirl it. The money mispent by the banks and mortgage companies was given by the dubya administration with no strings.

Where were you then?

Your compatriots are Minutemen and their buddies. Yeah, nice people.

Have fun.

Here is what I dont understand--and I confess I havent read every word of this thread, so possibly I've missed something that would be explanatory: what exactly do the tea party people stand for?

They are against massive government spending? Then where were they during the Bush years when a large new entitlement program (the Medicare drug program) was enacted, and a multi-billion dollar unfunded war (of dubious credibility) was begun? And why were they not enraged when Carl Rove reportedly said, "Deficits don't matter" ? Or when Bush went something like 7 and a half years before actuallly vetoing a spendning measure?

Yes, of course, Obama has now doubled, or tripled, or quadrupled down on spending---but he was handed a contracting economy that economists right left and center agree needs public spending to resuscitate. What do the tea partiers propose for reviving the economy?

The tea party phenom feels more to me like vague, anti-Obama sentiment that has been whipped up by the megaphones on the right and dressed up as some sort of self-conscious reaction against specific policies.

sharon kinsella wrote:Funny all you fiscal conservatives didn't do this when all the tax breaks were being given to corpororations and the rich.

Oh no, when they lose their cuts, they sponsor this stuff, call it a grassroots movement, incited by Faux News, Rush Limpbow, Glenn Beck and the rest of the mouthpieces.

Funny, when the middle class gets tax cuts for the first time in how many years? all these protests happen.

Under Bush, tax breaks were given to all who pay taxes, including the middle classs. They were not limited to just the corporations and rich. The key here is you actually had to pay taxes to get a tax break.

Tax credits that produce a refund even when paying no tax is income redistribution. All you have to do is breathe and you get a refund.

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=6

The top 25% of tax payers pay 86% of income taxes. The bottom 50% pay only 3% of income taxes. Is that really fair?

sharon kinsella wrote:Let's call it what it is - racism. These are protests against a black president.

Racism...ha. You are really reaching on that one.

Sharon, that single post is probably more detrimental to our society than anything said or done by any or all of the participants at that Tea Party.

It's racism.

Charlie - look at your paycheck- if you still have one.

Read the revised tax charts - can you do that?

Bret - Me detrimental to society - you're a scream.

RACISM.

Where you FISCAL CONSERVATIVES during the Reagan administration, the two Bushes?

Please answer, Charlie you are misinformed.

Sharon,

Could you please clarify.

As a willing attendee of this event, are you making the claim that I am a racist?

The Reaganistas raised FICA and payroll taxes. This hurt small businesses and the self-employed. Big corporations are better suited to giving celebrity spokesmen big contracts. The Deification of Rootless Grifter Ronald Reagan must end.

Our corn and potatoes and beef are highly subsidized. The giant slaughterhouses hire armies of illegal immigrants to process to beef and chicken for our fast food and big box retailers. You can succeed if you scrape together the franchise fees and open a franchise. most business leaders thrive on encouraging irresponsible behavior and gluttonous behavior.

American free markets of the past were laid on a foundation of protectionism, isolation, lower professional standards, and doling out an enormous amount of land freeer or more affordable than Europe could do. Today's republican leadership is based upon a foundation of D-baggery and mindlessness.

Why are we in a recession? because our post-industrial economy was based on sprawl and houseflipping. That was our benchmark of success! Were you a mortgage broker, a banker, a realtor, a mortgage backed security trader, a derivative trader, a bond rater? Or their administrative staff? Your success relied on encouraging personal irresponsibility. if you do well you can afford to live in Westlake and get great seats at the Browns games!

What is needed is a futile, useless gesture. Buy a Happy Meal at McDonalds with 32 ounce cola and complimentary gift toy from Asia. Drop it off the Bridge into the Cuyahoga River. If the British come for you just tell them Indians did it. They will know better, but be too polite to arrest you. They want your support against the French and the Spanish and the Netherlands and Belgium! You are all soaring Eagles!

sharon kinsella wrote:Please answer, Charlie you are misinformed.

where am I misinformed?

please explain how the tea party's are racism.

Ask yourselves, why was this done when a black president is in office and not when the white presidents raised taxes and screwed with taxpayers money?

Why are your compratriots minutemen.

If the shoe fits.....

Sharon,

I would not go so far as to say the tea party are racist. The conservatives are just bitter there man lost and with the help of fox news found a new outlet to complain. Nobody had a rally against radical government spending when bush was in office because we were all much too afraid of terrorists to say no to any government spending. If oboma did anything wrong it is that he did not blame the failing banks on al quida... then we would all be more than willing to throw money at them. I think people also need to take into account that they guy has been in office for less than 3 month. He can not save us from ourselves that quick