Education Community Forum: Student Behavior & Dress-4/19

[Jim O'Bryan]

DL/Dan/Mary Anne Crampton

I was not able to attend the meeting as I was at the Last Lakewood Alive meeting. I thought there would be more meeting but got a call from Dan Slife The Observer at the meeting who said, "they passed it."

From what I have heard, it would seem that things were added at the last minute, and then it was hurried through. That said I suppose it was given the light of day, as in many things I suppose I got in late. I also think the school board can pass any rule they think is important to help children learn.

BUT...

Does this law open the schools to needless litigation that will drain resources and funds from the school. Does stifling creative urges really help "engage the children"? Is this not just another version of banning, long hair, short hair, peace symbols, poodle skirts and pegged pants?

I agree with Mary Anne that the people that gave up time and effort to study the program should be respected for their efforts, but I would also be interested to hear what Plan B and C are if this does not have the desired effects.

I was at a graduation party, and there were four teachers and one in administration I believe. They engaged the students that were there in a discussion about the dress code. It did not go well. As I left to go home hours later the teachers were off by themselves talking of the need for the dress code but each one mentioned they did not want to be the ones to enforce it. That should fall on counselors and house principals. Yet another problem, why have something that cannot be enforced?

Dan Ott, a proud Lakewood grad, has hit the nail on the head. During my school days I was suspended in Horace Mann for having hair to long. A week later I had my head shaved and was sent home for having hair to short. From what I had been told the discipline cause more "talk" then the action. In high school I was pulled in for having Che Guvara and the Zig Zag Man on clothing, both times I was given the option of going home and changing or wearing a coat. Of course with the current rules, a coat would not be allowed.

As Dan put it the secret is with the teachers. How to engage the students at a time when hormones are going wild, and thoughts are elsewhere besides school. Peer pressure at an all time high, while rebellion comes as natural as breathing. It is a very tough problem. Just one of many reasons I never saw teaching as an option for me. My sister is a teacher, and I tip my hat to all in the profession. The future of America is in their hands.

The Lakewood Observer will be posting the old rules and new rules on this forum. We will also put the new rules in the July 4th edition of the paper. That way parents will have ample time to get to Geiger's, The Beat, or K-Mart to get school clothes. However this will hit place Lakewood businesses like Cleveland Graphics, Aartvark Design Studios, and No Mercy Sportswear the hardest. Ironically, No Mercy Sportswear's entire product line shows support for the hunt for Bin Landin, the troops overseas, and 9/11, these are no longer legal. But that will be another story for another day.

FWIW

Jim O'Bryan

[Dan Ott]

Obi has also brought up another reason not to impose these dress codes: the kids that have more issues with authority are the ones that really need to be in constructive learning environments, not sitting in the principle's office because their shirt says "NIN" on it. (or whatever kids these days are listening to....kids these days...jeeze...)

I just feel like there is nothing right about this whole thing. I don't think there was a big problem when i was a student. Maybe it was just because i was lucky in my class selection, but i really don't think so. If things have changed so much in four years, then someone explain to me why it's kids' clothing that is at fault. i just will never understand it.

i am obviously pro-freedom of speech in the most liberal sense, but i understand that sometimes, especially with children, sometimes things need to be done that don't sit especially well with me. but if i see good justification for it, then i can be convinced. i'm sure some people i talk to about things think i'm simply a blind liberal who automatically rejects any kind of control, but i'm really not. it's just that i see this as not only not helpful, but also potentially detrimental for the kids, teachers, parents, businesses as jim said, and anyone else for wasting their time.

if someone can explain to me their reasoning, or your reasoning, if you're for this thing, please do. i am all ears as always.


~dan

[Grace O'Malley]

Part of the rationale for passing a restrictive "dress code" is that it somehow enhances order and control in the classroom. This is widely believed to be true by teachers, and especially administrators, but a review of the literature shows mixed results.

Challenges to the legality of strict codes are often won because the standards the court applies to these cases require that the schools show that the dress code was implemented to deal with an existing problem AND that the particular situation being examined "caused disruption" in the school. Quite often, the schools are unable to prove this and the weight of the right of the student to express themselves in a non-disruptive way is upheld.

The schools have always had the right and ability to limit shirts with obscene writing and to ask students not to wear see through blouses or sagging pants. However, the limiting of ANY writing on a shirt is very dangerous. There are MANY sites on the web that clearly show the difference between what IS allowed in a dress code and what would be a restriction of free speech.

Like Jim, I see the potential for lawsuit, which means spending money to defend.

I have children in Lakewood schools and I attended one public comment meeting. Like others here, I see this as a desperate attempt to "look like we're doing something."

I think the effort should be directed elsewhere.



http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/speech/studentexpression/topic.aspx?topic=clothing_dress_codes_uniforms

[Jeff Endress]

Just to my my paddle (I don't have an oar) in the water:

As to the first amendment tee-shirt issue:
The rational behind banning ALL writing is to avoid having to make a determination of what is acceptable writing. Once you get on that slippery slope, you have all kinds of Constitutional issues, prior restraint of speech, etc. It is far easier to simply keep the door closed.

As to the rebelling issue: Mr. Ott is of course corrrect. We all know that as parents, the harder we push our children towards what we want them to do, the more they resist (and tend to do precisely the opposite). That does not mean, however, that the schools (in loco parentis) should allow the need to rebell to outweight the job of educating. If behavior, dress or attitude impact the ability to conduct the business of the schools, then not only are restrictions appropriate, they are necessary. While I'm not altogether certain that hair color should be an issue (I think my son went through every color imaginable) I won't second guess the conclusions.

The bottom line, however, has been, and always will be enforcement. It doesn't matter what the code of behavior SAYS, if it isn't enforced. Even if the "new" dress code has removed gray areas and subjective enforcement (a bad thing), and lends itself to objective enforcement (a good thing) it all becomes a moot point unless there is a willingness to see it implemented. So, rather then security guards paling around with the kids they know best (those who are causing trouble), they're actually going to have to enforce the rules. Rather then teachers turning a blind eye to students using cell phones during class they will have to confiscate them. The mere existance of the rule is frankly, moot, unless there exists a consequence for its violation

Jeff

Minds are like parachutes. They only function when they are open. -Sir James Dewar,
Scientist (1877-1925)

[Jim O'Bryan]

Just recieved 2005/06 Dress Code, posted in School News.

[Kenneth Warren]

Several points made in the discussion so far are relevant to how the community makes a creative adjustment to matters of consensus, culture, education, identity and law.

First, Lakewood City Schools launched a consensus building process on climate and dress code. In a consensus building process one of the rules of the game is the buy-in commitment to an end result.

This buy-in commitment can be summarized briefly as - “Can we live with it?â€Â

[Lynn Rodemann]

speaking from the point of view of some what "unrulley" teenager... they way that i look as an adult would not fit into most of the dress code. i can see the words on clothing issue to a certain degree... maybe if there were racial slurs or curse words...but i dont think that it can be so cut and dry. maybe instead of focusing on how short the skirt is we should teach our girls how to respect their bodys and teach them and we dont need to dress like celeberty because that is fake... and it cheepens them as a human being.. instead of supressing someones indevituality. let me put it this way.. when i was in high school.. i had a pink mohawk... and if the teacher at my school would have sent me home for having it... i would have wanted to have it more... i think that there are bigger fish to fry.. more underline issues that if someones hair or clothing is considered normal. I think that most of the real issues lies with people comfort levels... lets look past the outside and look into ourselves
extreme dress code = censorship

[Kenneth Warren]

Lynne:

Welcome. I am glad you are providing insight on the dress code matter.

Input from young mothers, with strong indie vibes, needs to register on the community's radar screen.

You and your children are our city's future.

You are detecting levels of complexity in the visualization of class, code and culture.

I don't quite understand the ramifications and rationale for the restrictions on unnatural hair colors.

If someone needed to go deep blue, a wig seems an easy enough work around.

However, your pink mohawk would probably pass code.

Believe it not, I asked Dr. Estrop if mohawks and long hair were OK.

He said yes.

I said that's great, because hippy and punk are part of the Lakewood brand.

How do you feel about the community consensus process, about settling for a "can we live with it" solution, and the sometimes seemingly illogical compromises such settlements entail?

The big question is - do you think Lakewood Public Schools can actually create a culture of creativity and intelligence that get kids beyond knee jerk reactive expressions of individuality?

Or do you believe that such tall order is a job for a Waldorf School?

Thanks again for getting involved.

Kenneth Warren

[Lynn Rodemann]

ken,
it seems to me that if only parents could instill in their children that it doesnt matter what people lopk like... or where they come from and then apply that to them selfves that maybe it could work... but sadly everyone has bias.... including myself... i cring when i see a cop... or a suit... no offence... hahah... but it takes some self evaluation... and actually talking about our fears... and or bias to over come... and get over the kid with blue hair... in class... maybe this is the work of my ideal waldorf school... doubt it will happen... but man it would be nice.
Lynn
ps. the can we deal with it is a total cop-out

[Kenneth Warren]

Lynne:

Our ideal is to move our community into circuits of knowing of each to such a caring degree that we get beyond reaction to the obvious visual code, understanding that the suit, the mohawk, the badge are simply levels of camouflage designed to protect certain assumptions that must be challenged with day-in and day-out engagement with compassion, creativity, effort and intelligence.

I truly believe we can create for Owen and the other childen in Lakewood learning environments that will trump the Waldorf School and bring all of us closer to our ideals.

Minds and hearts must be open, ready to connect to the person whether in suit, badge or mohawk. That's the expectation. Of course, we may fail the ideal from time to time. So we go forward again, trying to open together in community toward the hope and love that makes a great space for children.

If we can make learning happen together, Lakewood can be more stimulating than a Waldorf cacoon.

Let's keep the dream line for learning in Lakewood open.

Let me know how the library can help.

Kenneth Warren