Remind me, I forgot

[Lynn Farris]

Jim,

You said:

Why are we about to reinvigorate the war in Afghanistan, the true Vietnam of the Mideast? The most powerful army in the world got their asses kicked and financially broken there, what chance do we have to do any better?

Well, that is because they were fighting the US. Not Afghanistan. A great movie if you haven't seen it is Charlie Wilson's War - it is based on a true story. Through Afghanistan we finiancially broke the Soviet Union. They I believe are doing the same thing with us in Iraq. And they may have succeeded. We have borrowed to the hilt from China to finance this war. Now we are broke.

We also made great friends in Afganistan like Osama bin Laden who we supported and learned from us and then turned against us.

So, I reject the notion that Afganistan is a military power house, based on the fact that they kicked the Soviet's butt, the US kicked the Soviet's butt.

I think the problem is that through Iraq, and our behavior, we have really, really increased the number of Islamic Terrorists. Recruiting has never been so good. So we really have a group of terroists in Afgahnistan which is moving into Pakistan. Pakistan does have a nuclear bomb. This is a very dangerous area. Because they really hate us now, not because we have freedom, but because of our actions.

And the schools that Saudi Arabia (who the Bushes are in tight with) is financing there are really limiting what the boys learn a very extremist form of Islam. And it is clear that it is not Western friendly. The Islamic extremists are back in control, (Taliban by any other name) they are threatening to bomb girl schools or kill girls that go to school. The poppies are back. It isn't any better - in fact it is worse since we started.

Now, if you haven't already done so read Three Cups of Tea. Jim, the guy reminds me of you - it is a guy with determination who decides to build a girl's school in Pakistan. It is the story of how to win hearts and minds. It isn't through killing, but by helping. It we had put even a small fraction of the billions of dollars that we have spent in the past few years into helping the poorest of the poor instead of killing people, we may have won the hearts and minds.

How do we solve the problem? I don't know. Is Obama right that this is where the most serious problem is - Afghanistan and Pakistan - I think so.

Will the State Department be able to find a diplomatic approach to this problem? I truly hope so - but I'm not sure. Is Obama destined to repeat the failures of the past in the Middle East? All good questions. If we could build good will by using our allies there, I think it would be much more successful than us trying to do it by ourselves.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

War should never be considered an answer to a problem.

[Bill Call]

War should never be considered an answer to a problem.

You little cartoon is an insult to all those who died to preserve the freedom you take for granted.

[Valerie Molinski]

Once again, I made the mistake of thinking that you were requesting some sort of dialogue or point/counterpoint on the topic. I now realize this is another one of those rhetorical questions/posts where you already know everything there is to know about the situation by way of someone who is/was personally involved and you are just looking to repeat it.

My bad.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Once again, I made the mistake of thinking that you were requesting some sort of dialogue or point/counterpoint on the topic. I now realize this is another one of those rhetorical questions/posts where you already know everything there is to know about the situation by way of someone who is/was personally involved and you are just looking to repeat it.

My bad.

Valerie

I cannot speak for the others, but I will read the book and get back. However I also have to say I am not completely blind to what went on and where various spin goes. I look forward to sitting down and reading The Great Gamble and look forward to any light it could shed on the coming war, and the country.

Lynn

I saw Charlie Wilson's War which was not only good but entertaining. However I have also seen the documentary that led to the making of the film. It was not as clean cut and funny as the movie.

We actually got lucky, with that CIA very illegal war.

.

[ryan costa]

Jim,


Well, that is because they were fighting the US. Not Afghanistan. A great movie if you haven't seen it is Charlie Wilson's War - it is based on a true story. Through Afghanistan we finiancially broke the Soviet Union. They I believe are doing the same thing with us in Iraq. And they may have succeeded. We have borrowed to the hilt from China to finance this war. Now we are broke.

We also made great friends in Afganistan like Osama bin Laden who we supported and learned from us and then turned against us.

So, I reject the notion that Afganistan is a military power house, based on the fact that they kicked the Soviet's butt, the US kicked the Soviet's butt.

I am pretty sure it was the Afghanis who did most of the fighting against the Soviets. We supplied them with some arms and supplies. As did many arab muslim millionaires. Arab Muslims do also claim great success against the Atheist Soviet Union. The Soviets gave up after losing about 15,000 soldiers. about 1 million afghani civilians are reported dead on wikipedia

I doubt the Russians are supplying Iraqi insurgents anything or much. The budget of the Iraqi insurgents is probably a small fraction of U.S. budget in Iraq. Russia is not beating us in Iraq. The enemies of Saddam Hussein are beating on us in Iraq.

The French supplied our Insurgent forefathers in their revolt against Britain. Britain expended about 5 percent of its military trying to keep the 13 colonies and Northwest Territories. eventually they needed to concentrate on making more money elsewhere, and fighting france.

During the late 19th century the British vied against the Russians for influence/control of Afghanistan. the British did a pretty good job of it for a while. The British weren't worried about spreading democracy: they just wanted afghani rulers who like them better than Russia. Was the Czar an enemy of democracy? who cares.

Afghani insurgents are using similar strategy against America that George Washington ended up using against the British.

Ivor is from Europe. Europe's had way more wars and casualties than America. I think he has the right to have a sense of humor about it.

[Justine Cooper]

The truth is that Democrats would have been quite willing to have the Iraq war end in defeat and mass slaughter if it happend under Bush. There is no way in the world they will engineer that type of defeat when they are in charge.

You've been had.

Yea because it is the DEMOCRATS who have a history of slaughter and failed war and bombing people without reason! No mention of the Republican going in and CREATING the slaughter in Iraq in the first place, only how the Dems have to fix it? I truly wonder your opinion on our role in helping with the uprising of the Kurds and the abandoning them when Iraq and Iran decided to play nice and thus PLAYING A LARGE ROLE IN THEIR SLAUGHTER.

[Justine Cooper]

Did you happen to sign any of those petitions pre-Sept. 11?

I did. Our government didn't give a hoot about the women and children there. They only went when they had to and then left to do other work. What we did was just as bad with our half-assed effort. We were thought to be a super military force by others too, before all of this. Now we look weak. And worse.

[Stephen Eisel]

The truth is that Democrats would have been quite willing to have the Iraq war end in defeat and mass slaughter if it happend under Bush. There is no way in the world they will engineer that type of defeat when they are in charge.

You've been had.

Yea because it is the DEMOCRATS who have a history of slaughter and failed war and bombing people without reason! No mention of the Republican going in and CREATING the slaughter in Iraq in the first place, only how the Dems have to fix it? I truly wonder your opinion on our role in helping with the uprising of the Kurds and the abandoning them when Iraq and Iran decided to play nice and thus PLAYING A LARGE ROLE IN THEIR SLAUGHTER.

People like yourself in the 60's viewed the Vietnam war as a failed war. They also accused our government of bombing the people of Vietnam with out a reason. just sayin

[Jim O'Bryan]

People like yourself in the 60's viewed the Vietnam war as a failed war. They also accused our government of bombing the people of Vietnam with out a reason. just sayin

OK, what was the reason?

Are you saying we did not kill innocent people in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia?

Why are you such a revisionist?

.

[Stephen Eisel]

People like yourself in the 60's viewed the Vietnam war as a failed war. They also accused our government of bombing the people of Vietnam with out a reason. just sayin

OK, what was the reason?

Are you saying we did not kill innocent people in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia?

Why are you such a revisionist?

.

Justine wrote:Yea because it is the DEMOCRATS who have a history of slaughter and failed war and bombing people without reason!

She also forgot about Waco and the Aspirin factory in Sudan.

[Stephen Eisel]

Are you saying we did not kill innocent people in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia?

You are supporting my point.

[Justine Cooper]

None of what you write makes enough sense to comment back on Stephen but you are the first to try to justify the Vietnam War, although you didn't answer any of Jim's questions and no he didn't support your point. Did you ever work for the government by chance? Does it bother you at all that Bush's family is good friends with Bin's or that they will retired as billionaires while the country is plunging further and further into the toilet? I would love to hear good reasons for bombing Vietnam. And it wasn't just the hippies who "turned" on the vets, but our own government who did not give them all they deserved when they came home injured, beaten, broken. If you believe in karma Stephen, what is the karma of our country that has bombed and maimed and armed so many people in the world? Why do our children and their children and their children have to pay for those crimes and what benefit do you get from constantly defending our own crimes? Some say "yea there were no nuclear weapons in Iraq but Saddam was a horrible person who tortured and killed people" but is it ok that our own prison did the same to "suspects" not even found guilty? I just don't get how you can justify every single thing our country has done, yet turn and condemn others to the point that their people, women and children and all, deserve to be bombed and invaded?

[Stephen Eisel]

None of what you write makes enough sense to comment back on Stephen but you are the first to try to justify the Vietnam War, although you didn't answer any of Jim's questions and no he didn't support your point. Did you ever work for the government by chance?

Who was the presidnet of the US of A between 1965 - 1968? and what political party did he belong too? What happened in Vietnam? A lot of civilians were killed.

[Stephen Eisel]

Yea because it is the DEMOCRATS who have a history of slaughter and failed war and bombing people without reason!

It happened in Vietnam while a Dem was at the helm..

Are you saying we did not kill innocent people in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia?

Why are you such a revisionist?

No.. I am saying that Justine's post is absolutely insane. Innocent civilians die in every war (that is a sin). I do not believe that the US targerted civilians in Vietnam or Iraq.