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Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:29 am
by Charlie Page
Nice clicky Stephen, I wish I could use that on my clients and bosses. :wink:

I didn’t intend the comparison to be taken as the everybody does it defense. Maybe my memory is lacking but I don’t recall primary candidates taking it to each other the way Hillary and Obama did (with Biden piling on). Yes, they kissed and made up in public but there was a price paid. Hillary’s campaign was millions in debt (around 10 million if I remember correctly) and Obama needed the support of Hillary voters. He openly encouraged people to contribute to her campaign and she gave her full support. In the end, each got what they needed but I don’t think the Clinton’s will be having dinner in the White House anytime soon.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:05 am
by Justine Cooper
Charlie,
Didn't I read about Bush some years ago when in competition with McCain saying that he had an illegitimate child of color? You know, the child that he and his wife adopted from another country to give a good home to? Could that be why McCain pulled from the far right then? While they tried to pull him back some felt his resistance. He is a good man, who didn't get dirty enough for the right, so they took a blank slate in Palin to do it. And how did that work? She then went back to Alaska from an 80% approval rate to the low 60% and still declining.

Jim the fifty year old stripper at Lido's example is killing me.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:23 am
by Justine Cooper
Jim,
As far as your question in terms of critical thinking and real issues, Curriculum reform after over a hundred years is still reforming in schools and focusing on the need for critical thinkikng in our schools in this country because it has been lacking. We really can't blame the whole of society for not critically thinking when they traditionally had not been taught to do so. The reformers are pushing for showing students ALL sides of our history, not just one side. That would mean things such as the Westward movement including not just how difficult it was for the pioneers, but the actual butchering of Indians, men, women and chilidren, to get there. It would also include the "discovering" of America by an Englishman to remind students that this great land was actually "discovered" thousands of years before by Indian tribes. Brown v. Board would be dissected so show that the ruling of the Supreme Court to desegregate assumed the simple dessegregation would be enough for change, forgetting to implement the Curriculum change to provide role models and positive influences in the texts of African Americans, Native Americans (who were traditionally shown in our texts to be barbaric), etc.

The Supreme Court also failed to realize that many in this country would treat African Americans so horribly during desgregation that the shift would eventually go back towards segregation by choice, which is evidenced in Cleveland. Why is this so important, other than the little fact that we now have our fist African American president, is that the shift toward critical thinking in children in the past few or several years enable many of the youth to shed the beliefs that were dictated to them and make educated choices. As far as the group mentality of some on the right to be "right" over stepping outside the group mentality to look at the real state our country is in, I know of two Republicans, one of meager means and one living in a nice house in Avon, both who declared bankruptcy in the last few years. So they continue to subcribe to a party that claims to want less government,yet overspent and declared bankruptcy. The one from meager means even used food stamps and WIC to feed his two children, yet could not break from the Republican mindset that his rural family instilled in him.

And while those on the deck who speak up for democracy and equal rights for all are called "haters", the entire world wanted Obama. At one point do they step back and question why the entire world wanted this? It is easy to criticize the few on the deck for their beliefs, PM each other about how horrible some of us are and PM someone like Danielle to call her full of hate (never has one word of hers been anything but the opposite of hate), but how in the wolrd, do they look at the entire world and call them wrong? Compare the entire world's view to smelly a-holes? wow.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 3:24 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Justine

Gordon Brumm, aka Dr. Gordon Brumm has approached the schools with critical thinking curriculum and was told, it was not needed, and/or that iot should be taught in college not public schools.

Gordon, who has a doctorate of Logic from Harvard, commented, that critical thinking should be taught as early as possible, not as late as possible. I secretly thought that the last thing public schools needed were students with sharp critical chops, asking the tough questions. Far better to blow through the text books and worry about the fallout later.

Well the other night I had the pleasure of sharing some drinks with and exchange student(21) at the Melt, and talking about Obama, and the world. He smiled and said it was a tremendous step back up the ladder we had fallen. That in his homeland of Sweden, they loved Americans, but could not forgive us for the acts of war and transgression that it had appeared to the rest of the world we were backing. That the first four years of GWB were confusing, as the country had always been a beacon of hope, democracy and stopping wars. That when he was re-elected the goodwill towards America, and Americans were gone.

At one point we started talking about text books and what we are taught here. I mentioned that American children are taught that Ford, and Americans invented the automobile, and he could not believe it. At that point another American said, "What do you mean? We did not invent the automobile?" We then explained that Germans invented the "glow plug" and the first engine to use one, and placed it in a horseless carriage many years before Henry Ford, even dreamed of the model T. That all Ford and for that matter Winchester did was take the craftsmanship out of the car and gun.

Both were astounded, for different reasons.

Critical thinking is a must for everyone. If we could teach that, then maybe we could finally take the "Contains Peanuts." Warning off of the jar of peanuts!

I am always amazed when an American explains we had to go to Iraq because of 9/11, and they cannot understand that a little over 2,000 people, I believe 380 innocent Americans were killed by Saudis, and that we have now killed over 100,000 innocent Iraqis? How is that ever right, in anyone's eyes what alone the eyes of God?

.

Posted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:12 pm
by Valerie Molinski
Justine Cooper wrote:Charlie,
Didn't I read about Bush some years ago when in competition with McCain saying that he had an illegitimate child of color? You know, the child that he and his wife adopted from another country to give a good home to?



It was their daughter, Bridget, who they adopted from a third world country. In 2000 before the SC primary, Bush's team (Rove, et al) floated a rumor that Bridget was actually McCain's illegitimate child with a black hooker. Recently, Bridget googled herself and found all of this.

Then, for this run for the presidency, McCain got into bed with those same people who smeared HIM to run his campaign.

Posted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:15 am
by Justine Cooper
Valerie,
Thanks!
That is "hate" at its finest. Yes I am sorry McCain got into bed with them but I swear I felt a resistance and I wonder if a tiny little part of him was relieved he did not have to cross all the way over to that and be controlled by that. I just don't believe that is who he is.

Jim,
The good news is that colleges are now teacihng education courses that critical thinking is necessary to teach children properly, and how to take the standards and teach beyond that. There are strategies out there that blow away "lecturing" all period or all day to students that actually invoke empathy and critical thinking. I can't think of a better time to go into teaching than with Obama elected! The ammunition to go into Cleveland schools and other schools with someone children can identify with and aspire to is beyond exciting. The "do as I say and not as I do" is over for so many who needed a role model of their own. I do believe in global consciousness and felt the energy shift. I also know the dangers of collective egos that subscribe to a group mentality so much that all their thoughts and emotions must be the same of that group, whether it be the KKK, a religion that separates itself from all others as the "only way to God", or political party. From a Psychology standpoint, the less strengthened an individual's identity, the more they feel the need to subscribe to a group mentality, which is how so many disasters have heppened in this world.

There is so much hope now for changes imagine the country one day not being so divided and hating each other! Regardless of politial affiliation, how can anyone with a daughter refute the power of Hilary running as a tremendous shift for girls who are raised with superficiality all around them? This entire election has not just changed the world's view of us, but will impact our children to make very different choices and aspire higher.