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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:04 pm
by Jim DeVito
Stephen Eisel wrote:So because the US is in Iraq that gives Al Qaeda the green light to slaughter innocent Iraqi civilians? Was it ok for Al Qaeda to slaughter innocent civilians on 9-11 because the US had a military presence in the Middle East? :wink:


No. We all know there was no al qaeda in Iraq until we blew the doors down and let all the wack jobs in.

Also I still fail to see the link between Iraq and 9.11. I fail to see how when attacked by a handful evil-dooers we decide to take it out not on the crazes but on some country that was doing just fine until we brought out imperialist crap to their front door.

As for oil. I think we also all know that drilling more oil is not going to solve any problems. It is nothing but the lazy way out.

The republicans are so keen to run up the deficit fighting a pointless unjust war. It just blows my mind how they seem to think that green energy will cost to much. The current course is going to get us no ware fast.

True energy independence is going to come from innovation. Not taking the easy way out.

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:04 pm
by Stephen Eisel
I once say an interview with a terrorist. At the time he was working for us in Afghanistan against the Soviets. What he said, hit home. "We are considered terrorists because we deliver our bombs in backpacks instead of missiles." Very interesting point. The difference between a "freedom fighter" or a "terrorist."
9-11 was a defining moment for what terrorist and terrorism really stand for in this current era... it is not about how they deliver their bombs. It is where they delivered them.

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:10 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Stephen Eisel wrote:9-11 was a defining moment for what terrorist and terrorism really stand for in this current era... it is not about how they deliver their bombs. It is where they delivered them.


Stephen

No it was about who was asleep at the security switch that day?

It is about who has never really tried to get Bin Ladin?

It is about who has never successsfully brought more than one person to trial for those actions.

It is about who mismanaged our armed forces to make them look weak and inept, when we know how good they are. I thought if we had learned on thing from Vietnam it was we should try to win wars, not maintain them.

It is about the lies and mistruths that got us here.

Just once could you pretend GWB is a Democrat and judge him the same way you judge Bill and Hillary.



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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:13 pm
by Stephen Eisel
No. We all know there was no al qaeda in Iraq until we blew the doors down and let all the wack jobs in.
Al Qaeda is everywhere.. They are even in places where the US does not have a presence. Al Qaeda had ties to Iraq long before the US invasion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JE48XHKG64

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:24 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Stephen Eisel wrote:Al Qaeda is everywhere..


:roll:


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Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 9:38 pm
by Stephen Eisel
Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Stephen Eisel wrote:9-11 was a defining moment for what terrorist and terrorism really stand for in this current era... it is not about how they deliver their bombs. It is where they delivered them.


Stephen

No it was about who was asleep at the security switch that day?

It is about who has never really tried to get Bin Ladin?

It is about who has never successsfully brought more than one person to trial for those actions.

It is about who mismanaged our armed forces to make them look weak and inept, when we know how good they are. I thought if we had learned on thing from Vietnam it was we should try to win wars, not maintain them.

It is about the lies and mistruths that got us here.

Just once could you pretend GWB is a Democrat and judge him the same way you judge Bill and Hillary.



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LOL Jim.... Bush had 8 months in office before the 9-11 attacks and Clinton had 8 years... After the attack on the WTC in 1993, Clinton did nothing. After the attack in Riyadh, Clinton did nothing. After the attack on the embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, Clinton did nothing. After the attack on Khubar Towers, Clinton did nothing. After the attack on the USS Cole, Clinton did nothing. After 9-11, Bush did something... How many times was Clinton offered Usama? at least twice...

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:02 pm
by Ivor Karabatkovic
Stephen Eisel wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Stephen Eisel wrote:9-11 was a defining moment for what terrorist and terrorism really stand for in this current era... it is not about how they deliver their bombs. It is where they delivered them.


Stephen

No it was about who was asleep at the security switch that day?

It is about who has never really tried to get Bin Ladin?

It is about who has never successsfully brought more than one person to trial for those actions.

It is about who mismanaged our armed forces to make them look weak and inept, when we know how good they are. I thought if we had learned on thing from Vietnam it was we should try to win wars, not maintain them.

It is about the lies and mistruths that got us here.

Just once could you pretend GWB is a Democrat and judge him the same way you judge Bill and Hillary.



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LOL Jim.... Bush had 8 months in office before the 9-11 attacks and Clinton had 8 years... After the attack on the WTC in 1993, Clinton did nothing. After the attack in Riyadh, Clinton did nothing. After the attack on the embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, Clinton did nothing. After the attack on Khubar Towers, Clinton did nothing. After the attack on the USS Cole, Clinton did nothing. After 9-11, Bush did something... How many times was Clinton offered Usama? at least twice...



After oil companies gouged the pockets of american's...Bush did nothing.
After military men and women came home to rotting hospitals and no health benefits, Bush did nothing.
After thousands were killed in Africa, Bush did nothing.
After Ohio became the highest unemployed state in the United States, Bush did nothing.
After more and more jobs were shipped overseas, Bush did nothing. Wait no, he got his buddy Cheney to move Haliburton to Dubai.
After Katrina stranded millions on OUR OWN SOIL, Bush did nothing.
After FEMA put out trailors that made people sick to death, Bush did nothing.
After drug companies took control of health care and rates went up while coverage went down, Bush did nothing.
After 4,000 dead US fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, daughters, sons, and hundreds of thousand dead Iraqis and Afghanis, Bush turns the other cheek and does nothing to stop it.
After test scores reach an all time low in schools in the United States and we fall down to the lowest achieving developed country in the world, Bush did nothing.
After the American people voted Bush into office and trusted him on tough issues like Iraq, he lied over 900 times.
After Bush found out that two planes rammed into the WTC in new york, he did nothing! He read a childrens book to elementary school kids while innocent Americans were trapped in burning skyscrapers and thousands of flights were still in the air waiting on a decision to be made by the Commander in Chief, not the reading buddy in chief.

We have had 7 years to chase Osama Bin Laden and defeat terrorism but we are in Iraq and not in the mountains looking for him. The primary objective is blow Iraq up, not Al Queda. Oh, and build some bases too.

Tell me Stephen, are we any closer to "Usama" now than we were on September 10th, 2001?

I don't know about you, but I'd rather keep $10 Billion/month here on American soil, to give people health care coverage and future scientists, doctors, and teachers a better education so that we don't breed dumber and dumber kids/voters/leaders of the free world, generation to generation.

You're voting for the President of the United States. The single person that has the power to show future Al Quaeda recruits that America is not the devil. If you want to defeat Al Quaeda, kill the message, not the messenger, because the messenger isn't everywhere, but the message can be found on the morning and nightly news.

Posted: Tue Aug 26, 2008 11:09 pm
by Lynn Farris
I absolutely loved Hillary's speech. I thought it was brilliant. She was gracious and articulate. She has set the bar extremely high for the rest of the speakers.

My favorite part was the Harriett Tubman reference. I have heard many of her speeches. I do believe that this was her finest hour.

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:58 am
by Stephen Eisel
Lynn Farris wrote:I absolutely loved Hillary's speech. I thought it was brilliant. She was gracious and articulate. She has set the bar extremely high for the rest of the speakers.

My favorite part was the Harriett Tubman reference. I have heard many of her speeches. I do believe that this was her finest hour.
Agreed!

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:20 am
by Jim O'Bryan
Stephen Eisel wrote:.
LOL Jim.... Bush had 8 months in office before the 9-11 attacks and Clinton had 8 years... After the attack on the WTC in 1993, Clinton did nothing. After the attack in Riyadh, Clinton did nothing. After the attack on the embassies in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, Clinton did nothing. After the attack on Khubar Towers, Clinton did nothing. After the attack on the USS Cole, Clinton did nothing. After 9-11, Bush did something... How many times was Clinton offered Usama? at least twice...[/quote]

Stephen

This is what gets me.

Who is laughing.

As we know from the bi-partisan 911 Commission that the Bush Administration was brought up to speed on Usama BinLadin, and that they were told to watch him. They simply decided it was not worth doing.

Do not lay this one on the feet of Slick Willy. I am no fan of Clinton but this was the mismanagement of national security at the highest levels.

And then after 911, what was the answer, not to go after Bin Ladin's tribe of terrorist, no it was bomb Iraq. Then someone pointed out that Bin Ladin was NEVER in Iraq. Damn, Let's bomb Afghanistan, build the pipeline, replant the poppy fields then go to Iraq.

Stephen, I do not see how you give the worst president a pass on any of this. I said as he ran, the guy has screwed up everything he has ever touched. He has never been successful at anything. And now, he is as bad as they get and there were some real stinkers.

How many times was Bush offered Usama, only to go off somewhere else.

Stephen we all know who was holding hands, and who was wringing hands.

FWIW


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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:23 am
by Jim O'Bryan
Ivor Karabatkovic wrote:I don't know about you, but I'd rather keep $10 Billion/month here on American soil, to give people health care coverage and future scientists, doctors, and teachers a better education so that we don't breed dumber and dumber kids/voters/leaders of the free world, generation to generation.




Ivor

One problem with this thought. It is not our money. It is Chinese money we are borrowing. It is loans from the Federal Reserve we are borrowing, and what we are doing is transferring it to war profiteers like Haliburton, Carylse Group, etc. All businesses with very close ties to this administration.

It is disgusting.


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Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:38 am
by Stephen Eisel
After oil companies gouged the pockets of american's...Bush did nothing
Bush lifted the ban on offshore drilling and oil prices fell. Congress lead by Nancy Pelosi a democrat turned the lights off and refused to help the American people by lifting the congressional ban on offshore drilling.



After military men and women came home to rotting hospitals and no health benefits, Bush did nothing.
You need to Google Kenneth Kizer VA under secretary for health. He was appointed by Clinton and has brought many improvements to the healthcare of Vets.


After thousands were killed in Africa, Bush did nothing.

http://www.nysun.com/editorials/bush-of-africa/71401/

After Ohio became the highest unemployed state in the United States, Bush did nothing.
What did Dennis do? lol

After more and more jobs were shipped overseas, Bush did nothing. Wait no, he got his buddy Cheney to move Haliburton to Dubai.
You do know that Cheney has not worked for Haliburton in over 8 years. Chenye and Haliburton facts (clicky)

After Katrina stranded millions on OUR OWN SOIL, Bush did nothing.
http://www.factcheck.org/article348.html

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 7:44 am
by Stephen Eisel
And then after 911, what was the answer, not to go after Bin Ladin's tribe of terrorist, no it was bomb Iraq.
News Flash... We invaded Afghanistan in October of 2001 and who was in Afghanistan at that time???? The Iraq war did not begin until 2003...

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:07 am
by Stephen Eisel
After Bush found out that two planes rammed into the WTC in new york, he did nothing! He read a childrens book to elementary school kids while innocent Americans were trapped in burning skyscrapers and thousands of flights were still in the air waiting on a decision to be made by the Commander in Chief, not the reading buddy in chief.


Gwendolyn Tose’-Rigell, the principal of Emma E. Booker Elementary School, praised Bush’s action: "I don’t think anyone could have handled it better." "What would it have served if he had jumped out of his chair and ran out of the room?"… She said Bush’s presence had a calming effect and "helped us get through a very difficult day."

Ivor... have you ever heard of NORAD?

Posted: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:40 am
by Jim O'Bryan
Stephen Eisel wrote:
And then after 911, what was the answer, not to go after Bin Ladin's tribe of terrorist, no it was bomb Iraq.
News Flash... We invaded Afghanistan in October of 2001 and who was in Afghanistan at that time???? The Iraq war did not begin until 2003...



Stephen

I have no idea. Do you?

We can either believe that GWB did basically nothing to catch him, or that he was not there.

A conspiracy guy like you can smell this one?

Think about the entire setup.

GWB, claims before he is president he would like to go back to Iraq, but needs something big to happen. Something big happens and he announces it is time to go into Iraq. Then the entire world points out that the Saudi group headed by Bin Ladin is in Afghanistan. So GWB shrugs and goes into Iraq via Afghanistan. Along the way they build a pipeline and replant the poppies. Two things he assured the Americans he was not doing in Afghanistan.

Now I will admit that none of GWB's lies have been as pitiful as lying about an affair. But people are dying for those lies.

I am still not LOL, but I guess you are.


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