The Observation Deck

I've tried to stay out of this for the past however many days this has been up.

I don't pay attention or agree with 95% of what's posted up here...and I don't even read much of it. I usually just come on the board to click on each post and get rid of all the red dots that stand for new posts. I do realize that everyone's entitled to their opinions and beliefs and their way of going about their business.

I don't understand why Jim always gets attacked for his antics when money out of his account goes into this project and gives everyone the space on the world wide web to attack him as much as they want.

There has been times in the past two years where I have become so discouraged and upset with Jim or the "observer" that I have debated to stop contributing. After debating this, I had realized just how much the "observer" has done for me, my classmates, my school, neighbors and city that I felt it was stupid for me to pull out.

Disagree or agree with the way he does things, you have to remember he gave every one of us a place to voice our complaints about the city, state, country, and planet. With over a million hits per month.. he gives us a place to let our ideas/voices be heard internationally.

He never changes a word that we post up... it's our name that's tagged along with what we type. If you google your name...your post will come up. Not Jims, kens, heidi's, dl's, stans, jills, or chef's.

I hope everyone remembers that as this project heads into an exciting year.

Disclaimer: I have plenty of other things to do in my day than to read other people's garbage. I hope you all realize how much time is lost by fighting like kindergarten kids over a crayon. At the end of the day, if anyone wins this arguement, what will the personal gain be? what will this community gain from this? isn't that why we're here after all? to contribute our ideas on making our community a better place for all?

Oh and another thing. I'm on neither side here...

I believe people don't realize just what Jim has done for this community and how much more work he will be putting into this city. If you own a business here in lakewood, you might realize that the thousands of visitors he drew in last fall and will draw in this fall help your business out in many ways.

Shawn,
didn't the Jaycees have a stand up at last summer's "harry and the potters" concert that drew thousands of visitors, scene magazine, fox 8 choppers, channel 3, 4, 5 and 6 news and fans from kentucky, michigan, virginia and all over the state?

I believe it was Ken and Jim that brought that band to Lakewood Park.

And where did that big sign on the stage that said "first annual lakewood jaycees wing cook-off" come from?

Carlucci's is right around the corner from me. I walk home from school and admire the framed print version of the lakewood observer that shows my photos of them being crowned the first ever winners. It makes my night every time after I was a royal whoopin' at the boys and girls basketball games in the east gym.

You and I are buds. I appreciate all the work that the LAKEWOOD Jaycees does and how much time you spend running the whole show. and thanks for that T-shirt. I wear it all the time.

Ivor -

Two...no three.... things:

1) You are right about his contributions and the fact that it is his name that is on the paperwork. He receives all of the receipts and pays all of the bills and to the best of my knowledge he has covered all periods of shortages and in periods of profit, he has returned it either to the development of the project or to the community via development projects.

2) Intentionally or unintentionally posts have been changed. There are several of us that can attest to that so please do not use that to support your arguments.

3) The point of this for me has more to do with understanding HOW we are discussing things and how we can communicate better and avoid the pitfalls of open discourse that throw topics so far off-course and may reduce active participation of people from all segments of our community.

Dont fear this discussion. It is not a bad one - even thought it may feel uncomfortable, perhaps it is one that we should all think about as we write our own posts.

Always,
Charyn

[quote="Charin Compeer"2) Intentionally or unintentionally posts have been changed. There are several of us that can attest to that so please do not use that to support your arguments[/quote]

Charyn

Every-time it has happened, by accident. On the moderator level the edit button is directly next to the quote button, next to the delete button.All within about a half an inch. I have on 5 occasions that I know of hit edit instead of quote.

Every time it has been brought to my attention or the attention of DL that runs the Deck. Every effort possible has been made to replace the file exactly as it was posted. On the two occasions that it could not be done, the poster, re-posted as close as they could remember to the post.

I can assure you, it is accidental. Like tonight, my mouse is jumping and the computer is slow as I have to many software packages open.

If this happens to anyone I would hope that they would notify one of use immediately. The Deck is usually backed up twice a day, so that in most cases it can be found and replaced.

There has never been the censorship of anyone on this board. That was one of the first things decided on. You know this to be true. 20001 posts and maybe 5 mistakes, even a person that claims to be a perfectionist, would have to think that is pretty good.

But you are entitled to your opinion or perspective on this.

I try to stay out of running the Deck, as DL, and now Jill Timieski are doing a grand job. But occasionally I am called on, I am not good at it.

I wanted to clarify on that topic.

But it is still up to each person's interpretation and discussion. If this is what Shawn is complaining about, I would apologize in a second, as I did with you.

I can assure you that no one on the board, or myself have worked for almost 4 years to censor anyone about anything.

Holding my comments until court is over.

FWIW.

CC: Are you stating that by continuing to post when we feel that the posts have become attacks on us instead of our ideas that we will move the conversation through that level to a point of neutrality?

KW: No. If one feels captive to a negative mood, based on any exchange, then going away mad or to bed sad can be construed as “the ordinary orientation,â€Â

Jim:

I thought a bit on how I phrased that. I left my s-o-c typing alone as it I cannot make any statement regarding the intentions of anyone other then myself.

I left that for you to clarify as you are the best witness to your own motivations.

It was not meant to imply that the changes were intentional, only that they occurred.

Always,
Charyn

Mr Warren:

Thank you - that makes more sense to me than my orginal interpretation of your prose.

Charyn Compeau wrote:Jim:

I thought a bit on how I phrased that. I left my s-o-c typing alone as it I cannot make any statement regarding the intentions of anyone other then myself.

I left that for you to clarify as you are the best witness to your own motivations.

It was not meant to imply that the changes were intentional, only that they occurred.

Always,
Charyn

Charyn

We all know I can be trying.

We have spoken enough and exchanged enough that I would hope you know I would never censor anyone intentionally.

That would be true of all advisors.

From the day this board was created all of us, including you, have reached out to all that are interested.



.

Charyn Compeau wrote:2) Intentionally or unintentionally posts have been changed. There are several of us that can attest to that so please do not use that to support your arguments.
Charyn

This is a very serious allegation and calls into question the integrity of the entire project.

As the Deck Administrator, I would like to know exactly what you are talking about so steps can be taken to avert any problems in the future.

Furthermore, but for the few times that Jim has mentioned, problems have not been brought to my attention and I have received no complaints about such abuses.

I can be emailed or PM'd at any time with concerns.

When Jim (or one other former moderator) has alerted me to a problem, every possible step was taken to rectify the situation, there has been an apology issued, and the problems openly discussed.

I bristle at the innuendo that posts are edited by people who are not the original authors except, of course, in the few situations where the wrong button was inadvertently pressed.

All

Thanks for your words of support.

However, I believe this is not a contest between Mr. Juris and I. At least I hope it is not. I am not a member of the Jaycees, though the Observer does support their efforts and we have recently encouraged others about joining this fine organization.

While many see me as competitive, I really try focus on my programs, and let others do what they may. While Ken and others may feel it is a competition, I do not mean to disappoint, it is not.

Mr. Juris does give time to helping this city in various ways. Recently he headed up The Youth Master Plan.

So let's get back to the topic. Do I misrepresent, possibly, through my own lack of understanding, quick response time, and enthusiasm for the discussion. I believe that Mr. Juris and I have drastically different views of Lakewood's future. While I try to put critical heat to the idea in my hast I can see where Mr. Juris might feel I am putting heat on the messenger. I bear no ill will towards Mr. Juris. Like anyone else on the Observation Deck I take part on the basis on my experiences, my history and my personality. While I try to do my best I realize that I am not perfect.

The Lakewood Observer Project is all about empowering all citizens to take some of the burden off of City Hall and local businesses. It is about defining a brand, and building a community consciousness. It is about amplifying artistic intelligence, civic intelligence, while highlighting the good deeds of our neighbors and friends. The Deck is all about vetting new ideas, current plans, and a host of other topics. It is my belief even the best idea should stand up to the questions of others.

This is done without prejudice, and without force. Everyone is allowed to take part on an equal level. The publisher's comments should never carry more weight than that of the newbie. In the end, we have both put our name to our posts. We are equal.

Shawn, for whatever I did to make you want to vote me off the Observer's Survivor Island, I apologize. I never wanted this, and never asked for it. Let's put it behind us and move on.

In the end we are all neighbors.

As I do not feel captive to the negative mood, but instead I feel gladness for the Venus that rules me and the moon in Aquarius which has uplifted my appreciation for this project. As Ken Warren put it, "By going onward in dialog rather than away mad or to bed sad, “we 'obscure the ordinary orientation'â€Â

DL:

There is no way for me to restate my post that will make it feel any better. The fact is that there were posts that were altered. Both you and Jim admit to that in your own posts. I chose not to make an assessment of how or why it occurred as I knew FULL well that Jim would explain what happened as a direct witness/participant. To hear from me as second or third hand would have been inappropriate.

I am not sure what else you want as far as this is concerned. The past cannot be changed and I have no desire to search the archives for every post of mine (and others) that was deleted or over-written in whole or in part.

It does not serve to further this discussion in any way and while I would respectfully ask that no-one tout that there has never been post that was changed I do not seek to raise this as a point of debate. Perhaps say instead there was never one intentionally changed if that is what has been determined the case was. I would never argue that point.

It was made clear to me early on that the expectation was the we would all "own" our words. Indeed, I have. I am not able to change what anyone else writes and with VERY few exceptions do I ever revise anything I write. I own what I put out there and instead of trying to take it back, I explain, apologize, or append it. I put it out for the cyber-world to see and I will fall on my own sword when need be. That is owning your words.

And just as I believe in owning the words - I also believe we own our actions.

Jim:

While I try to put critical heat to the idea in my hast I can see where Mr. Juris might feel I am putting heat on the messenger.

Speaking only for myself, it is only in these moments that I am frustrated, or downright angry with you. When it is not the ideas, but the person (or the persons character) that is called into question. Just as I did not speak to your intentions, or lack thereof, when a post was altered - I would always ask that you not represent my intentions or motivations.

And just as you clarified what happened - I can then clarify my positions as well.

It is my belief even the best idea should stand up to the questions of others.

You know I agree wholeheartedly with this and would only state again - that it is IDEA that deserves scrutiny. Not the person who forwarded it.

All:

I was interested in the thread (1) because of Mr. Warren's intriguing posts (2) because Jim and I have often had very public and heated disagreements of our own and (3) because I thought the questions was a good one in and of itself.

And while I'll make no friends saying this - I will tell you my thoughts about the question of at what point do the post become ethical, legal or moral issues.

At no point does that happen. There is no legal issue here at all. Period. Open discussion forum - enter at your own risk so to speak.

Moral - nothing here either. There is little or no vulgarity, pron or otherwise salacious content.

Ethical - the deck does not seek to hold or maintain a position other than it is a forum for public use. DL pointed out the only potential ethical issue, and considering that Jim did own up to his own mistakes in that regard - I dont find the ethical basis of this board to be in question at this time.

This issue is one that is about a single person and not the board, and whether we like it or not, we must address it to that single person alone.

I understand the frustration; however, the solution is not in questioning this project, but in questioning the posts in clear and forthright manner - without the red flames of anger. (not directed to any single person - but as a general statement)

WHEW - what a mouthful. Sorry to be long all.

Peace,
Chary

There are several of us that can attest to that so please do not use that to support your arguments.

*yawn*
Well if I can't use that to support my argument, and you can't prove it to support your quote before, I think we're even steven?

The past cannot be changed and I have no desire to search the archives for every post of mine (and others) that was deleted or over-written in whole or in part.

The beauty of the deck is you can go back and edit posts a week, month or year after you post it.

DL and Jim did a good job explaining what these "edits" were and how they occurred, and I'm sure that no intentional editing has occurred or will occur. If it's going into print that is a whole other topic and issue.

Even my crazy ideas and posts have never been edited or changed. If anyone's posts would be changed it would be mine...not Shawn's or yours (Charyn). You guys, just as all of us, are a part of the observer family. I don't see any reason why your posts would be edited.

Charyn-

To my knowledge, several posts were accidentally deleted last year.

I don't have any proof of your allegations. I have no complaints upon which to judge the veracity of your allegations.

Ummm....

OK - Jim admits that there were posts he accidentally over-wrote, but I still have to prove that it happened?

Oy Vey!!!!

Ivor - does Jim admitting it happen qualify as proof? If not, please let me know what your standards of proof are - I am quite curious. To those of us who spent time trying contribute only to find that our posts were somehow gone soon after they appeared it is an important issue.

I will accept that it was due to an overexcited mouse finger. I get that, I think everyone does. But that doesnt mean that it didnt happen.

Let me be very clear - I never EVER said that posts were edited. I said that they were changed.

Over writing or deleting IS changing.

DL - I am not alleging anything. I stated what happened - Jim stepped up and provided an explanation of how it happened.

Regards.
Charyn

Shawn Juris,

I’ve been rather disappointed to witness your particular sink to the low road. You botch Jim’s name, time and time again, in an infantile attempt to demean him …. Is that the kind of tone that says “all youth and families belong and thriveâ€Â

Duplicate post deleted

(see - even I get happy mouse fingers..... )