MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Dan OMalley wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:
Dan OMalley wrote:Among the CDCs latest guidelines for re-opening restaurants and bars is to “prioritize outdoor seating as much as possible.”

Council President O'Malley

Please read your opening sentence. Ok read it one more time.

When it comes to re-opening restaurants...

Not cities, not the health of a community..
Jim I hope people would understand that the sentence I quoted directly from the CDC is a health guideline.

I’m not going to turn this into an argument over One Lakewood Place.

Council President O'Malley

Of course not, but please allow one to point out how ill thought out that was from day one.

You have two people intimately involved in that decision making this one.

Can one not pause and ponder are we about wander into another big hole?

With that said, the state and the country are reopening not based on any science or facts. As COVI-a9 is till climbing in Ohio at 600+ cases a day, and in Cuyahoga county, ohhhh and in the City of Lakewood.

It is strictly based on business pressures, and some concepts that some thought might be nice for Lakewood.

It is not based on what is good for the community, but what is thought to be cool on Mainstreet.

It is odd how often elected officials fall into the trap. Lakewood's largest business is not food, drink or even medical it is people, homes and living safely.

Oh well maybe next time eh?

Dan thank you for being an opposing vote on the street party thingy.

Did you go to any bars clubs or restaurants last night?

.
Jim O'Bryan
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"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
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Dan Alaimo
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Dan Alaimo »

What are the sunset provisions for these new ordinances?
“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
Dan OMalley
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Dan OMalley »

Dan Alaimo wrote:What are the sunset provisions for these new ordinances?
The end of October or the lifting of Ohio’s state of emergency, whichever comes first.
Dan O'Malley
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Dan OMalley wrote:
Dan Alaimo wrote:What are the sunset provisions for these new ordinances?
The end of October or the lifting of Ohio’s state of emergency, whichever comes first.
Council President O'Malley

When is the next election for Bullock's seat?

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Mark Kindt
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Mark Kindt »

Once Bitten, Twice Shy

There is NO reason for the Lakewood City Council to repeat the mistakes of the very recent past.

1. Despite vocal and organized civic opposition and lawsuits, the city administration in a conflict-of-interest ridden and secret process liquidated and demolished an award-winning public/community hospital ending local hospital care in Lakewood and all of its benefits including public revenues, multi-million dollar charity care, and ICU beds and so on.

2. Less that 2 years after that demolition started, the City is now faced with a pandemic crisis of historic scale.

3. While it may have the power to do so, Lakewood City Council should take NO steps that would in any way increase the healthcare costs of its residents or reduce the health and safety expectations of its residents, visitors, and business employees, especially during unmitigated pandemic conditions.

Let's not double-down on reductions in healthcare by promoting what appears to be seriously misguided legislation that can provide little, if any, meaningful protection for bar/restaurant employees and patrons.

I have seen no chart, table, or graph that gives any confidence that the pandemic is not slowly, but steadily increasing. In our county, 77% of intensive care beds are occupied and this is an increase.

If you have counter-data, please provide it in JPG or PDF formats to mkindt@kindt.com. We all would like to see it.
Amy Martin
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Amy Martin »

Get Ready - I think this is what we're going to hear from the City when this "experiment" is done:

The sidewalk/street dining experience was such a success that the City has decided to extend the program each summer!!!


Since we are now a restaurant/bar economy, they'll validate this stance to keep 'em coming. Low hanging fruit is the easiest to pick.

Just imagine what e-scooters and e-bikes will add to the mayhem!!
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Stan Austin »

I always look for the logical extensions of these changes. If I were an auto repair shop, I'd like the same privileges to do oil changes and transmission fluid changes on Madison or Detroit, right in the street.
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Dan Alaimo »

When we get just a little farther down the trail, I'd like to start a thread on "What have we learned?/What should we be learning? from the Covid-19 pandemic". Right now, I'm not finished with "masks", but that doesn't mean someone else can't steal my idea. To be transparent, I'm stealing it from Gov. Cuomo. I mean it to be serious, not knee-jerk jokey.
“Never let a good crisis go to waste." - Winston Churchill (Quote later appropriated by Rahm Emanuel)
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Councilman O'Malley

Again you stress my concerns. So you have a plan to lift it in October, or when it is lifted by the State, but no mention of what happens when the cases go up? This shows me that Council looks at rosy pictures not real pictures when they deliberate. Something President Trump does as well. Only plan for the best, never the worst.

Now let's look to your old stopping grounds, The Lake of The Ozarks, well the infamous pool party happened and all members are asked to self quarantine for two weeks. Which of course is a joke as they couldn't even stay 6' from each other. But the reasons given were the very reasons I spoke to you last week before this happened. It is ok to talk with a couple people 6' apart for ten or 15 minutes. But prolonged use, is not only more problematic in catching the virus, but also sending the virus down the air's glide path. So that a droplet that can float for 15-90minutes, can travel on the wind. Sunlight can break it down in 2-5 hours. Heat over 90 can break it down in 5-10 hours. Which means each table upwind can infect other tables down wind.

This weekend I have seen business owners and employees without masks in Lakewood. Against the rules. I have seen tables of 6 or more inside and almost outside. I have seen groups of ten or more hanging around together smoking cigarettes, talking and waiting. No response from the City of Lakewood, which would indicate this is yet another string of rules and laws that will never be enforced. So we are opening doors, for things that may never change down the road.

Also fairness, is it fair to only worry about restaurants? Why can't Geiger's mover have their racks outside? What about the Social Security offices, why can't they move some of their desks outside? I realize that a majority of council gets checks from restaurateurs but their are other businesses in town. If council looked up from their craft beer maybe they would see that too. Speaking of craft beer and bars I find it odd, the one councilperson that has run afould of the law the most for drinking and... Leads this charge to open bars.

Which brings me to the final points. We are furloughing police and fire to save money. Now is the time to increase drunks and drunk traffic? Now is the time to bring it all into the parking lots and streets. I spoke with police and fire, none of them believe this is a good idea for the safety and well being of Lakewood and its residents.

So what we have is a handful of people that dabble in politics part time at best, and have zero background in science, medicine, law enforcement or psychology making up these rules as they go along on the whims of?

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
Dan OMalley
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Dan OMalley »

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Councilman O'Malley

Now let's look to your old stopping grounds, The Lake of The Ozarks, well the infamous pool party
Wait, what? I've never been to the Lake of the Ozarks or anywhere near it. In any event I would not compare the scene at that pool party to an al fresco dinner in Lakewood.
Jim O'Bryan wrote:This weekend I have seen business owners and employees without masks in Lakewood. Against the rules. I have seen tables of 6 or more inside and almost outside. I have seen groups of ten or more hanging around together smoking cigarettes, talking and waiting. No response from the City of Lakewood, which would indicate this is yet another string of rules and laws that will never be enforced.
State and local authorities have been dispatched multiple times to enforce social-distancing requirements in bars and restaurants. Did you report these particular incidents?
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Also fairness, is it fair to only worry about restaurants? Why can't Geiger's mover have their racks outside?
I believe they can, and have.
Jim O'Bryan wrote:I realize that a majority of council gets checks from restaurateurs but their are other businesses in town.
Where do you come up with this stuff? I have never solicited, and to the best of my knowledge have never received, any contribution from a Lakewood restaurant.
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Which brings me to the final points. We are furloughing police and fire to save money. Now is the time to increase drunks and drunk traffic? Now is the time to bring it all into the parking lots and streets. I spoke with police and fire, none of them believe this is a good idea for the safety and well being of Lakewood and its residents.
I want to refer you to my original post - these changes are to INCREASE safety and health in our dining establishments. Similar variances are being granted all over the country. Coverage of some examples.

Minneapolis: https://www.startribune.com/minnesota-c ... 570775092/
Washington, DC: https://wjla.com/news/local/phase-1-out ... n-virginia
Denver: https://denverite.com/2020/05/18/denver ... or-dining/
Nationally: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/05/22/cities- ... tions.html
Jim O'Bryan wrote:So what we have is a handful of people that dabble in politics part time at best, and have zero background in science, medicine, law enforcement or psychology making up these rules as they go along on the whims of?
Again, as I stated in my original response, these dining expansions have the blessing of various health authorities. We want our businesses to survive but to do so safely with increased capacity for social distancing. By the way, we actually do have people on council and council staff who have strong backgrounds in science, law enforcement, and public health.
Dan O'Malley
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Stan Austin »

Counsel President O'Malley-- thank you for the continuing discussion. Stan Austin
Mark Kindt
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Mark Kindt »

I have seen no chart, table, or graph that gives any confidence that the pandemic is not slowly, but steadily increasing in Ohio.

In our county alone, 77% of intensive care beds are occupied and this is an increase as reported recently in local media.

Yesterday or today, Rich Exner posted a graph at cleveland.com that showed a 30 degree upward slope on cases in Ohio that DOUBLED during the month of May.

Dan, I spent 12 years in both state and federal public service and I simply cannot imagine expanding outdoor dining during a national pandemic crisis of this magnitude.

For many Lakewood residents this is an existential crisis. And, by existential, I mean a crisis of life or death proportions.

If you get out your calculator you can determine for yourself that Ohio has about a 7% mortality rate for Covid-19 victims, higher than many other states.

Rather than expand outdoor dining, the City of Lakewood should be solely focused on testing, testing, testing to protect its most vulnerable populations in nursing homes and assisted living.

I urge you and other city council members to reconsider this misguided initiative and only focus on protecting the most vulnerable residents with all due dispatch.
Mark Kindt
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Mark Kindt »

Minnesota Is A Poor Comparison State

So far, it has only reported 908 deaths. It has done much less testing than Ohio and we all know that Ohio was/is in a serious testing deficit and is trying its best to catch-up.

Indiana is a better comparison State, it also has about a 7% mortality rate.

https://www.politico.com/interactives/2 ... new-cases/

It is going to be a long, sad Summer here and in other major cities.
Mark Kindt
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Mark Kindt »

This Is A Growth Path Documented With Public Data

There is no evidence of decline or even of stability, except growth:
Published Graph from Rich Exner.jpg
Published Graph from Rich Exner.jpg (269.21 KiB) Viewed 5228 times
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Jim O'Bryan
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Re: MEMO TO CITY COUNCIL - SIMPLE QUESTION

Post by Jim O'Bryan »

Mark

A cumulative chart will always go up.

That said I recently say a report on Florida, that showed about 1,567 COVID deaths. While showing, 5,958 Flu deaths for same period.

What is amazing last year same period flu deaths were under 1,000.

Dan

Why not just open the bars back up and make them keep their doors open with fans. Safer than closed doors, and safe for the community in the long run. I would think this could be easily enacted. Lakewood is a self rule city. Go for it tiger.

Yeah okay.

As always thanks for stopping by.

.
Jim O'Bryan
Lakewood Resident

"The very act of observing disturbs the system."
Werner Heisenberg

"If anything I've said seems useful to you, I'm glad.
If not, don't worry. Just forget about it."
His Holiness The Dalai Lama
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