The Observation Deck

Kate McCarthy wrote:

Mark Kindt wrote:Truly fascinating....

Mr. O'Bryan, the developers who responded to the City's RFP to develop the hospital site might have benefited from knowing that there was a buried stream-bed and pond on the property before they submitted their respective proposals.

How was this missed?

This has been my big concern. That this whole ridiculous scheme is going to blow up in their collective faces. And now, by not disclosing this, could a developer get an easy out of any agreement? Or, put the city in jeopardy of being sued?

Their chicken little cry constantly fluctuated from if we don't do something NOW we will end up with a big empty building on the city's books to six empty acres in the middle of town. Not to mention the asbestos!!!

So we could conceivably have six empty acres that we have to buy back?

Here’s an interesting story illustrating how developers cannot be trusted and how quickly plans can go sour.
Lexington KY tore down several city blocks right in the heart of their downtown - many historic structures were destroyed. The developer ended up backing out shortly thereafter. The land sat vacant for over 6 years - a big field right in the downtown. A second developer finally appeared, dug a huge hole for underground parking, then also backed out. The city literally sued to have them fill the hole - which was far worse than a vacant lot. Finally, 11 years later it appears that something will be built.

11 years - formerly productive land sitting idle. No one paying taxes on it. 11 years!

Developers always present a rosy picture. Do t believe them.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Center_(Lexington)

Dan OMalley wrote:

Betsy Voinovich wrote:Jim O'Bryan said:

And the kicker, if nothing gets built on the acreage that we were paid $1 for, we have to buy it back from Ed FitzGerlad and developers for $5 million. Not a bad payday for $1.

Mark Kindt said:

This may eventually be worse than Mr. O'Bryan states. The repurchase price cost to the City is likely to be higher than just $5,000,000.

That may depend on many factors, but rests upon the fact that the 2018 appraisal that the City sought was an "as instructed" appraisal and not a true fair market appraisal.

Hi Jim and Mark,

Excuse me if I should know this, but what are you guys talking about?

If nothing gets built, wouldn't that be the fault of the developer? Why would we have to buy the land back for five million dollars or more?

Betsy Voinovich

Apologies if I'm misreading but it seems to be suggested that the city would have to pay the full new appraised value of the property in the unlikely event we ever repurchase it from Carnegie. That is not true. The cost would be the new appraised value at that time, minus the ~$5millon appraised value when it was conveyed to Carnegie. This is in the development agreement. I asked about this on the record at the November 5, 2018 Committee of the Whole meeting. Here is a video of the meeting. The relevant exchange begins around the 29:20 mark. http://onelakewood.granicus.com/player/ ... ?view_id=2

Mr. O'Malley,

Let me get this straight---Because of ambiguity in the written agreement, (1) you needed to ask for clarification (verbally), (2) you relied on the verbal clarification and (3) the ambiguity remains in the written final agreement. Am I correct?

Why not clarify the written agreement by clarifying the writing before passage?
Wouldn't that have been "best practices"?

In The Unlikely Event That Failure Does Occur, Costs To City Of Lakewood Would Not Be Insignificant

As we can see from this model, botching "The Once-In-A-50-Year-Opportunity" has some potential downside "investment" risks.

They could be less or they could be more.

I thought giving away the property along with clean up costs was insanity but being put in a position of buying back that property is dumbass times two

Mr. Austin, make sure you whistle as you walk past the cemetery.

No matter what is ever eventually built upon the former hospital site, we each will know that we have witnessed a moral failure in our civic life. Indeed, a failure of such magnitude that most of us still cannot believe that the City is demolishing its hospital.

That's the new reality.

Pardon the question, but did the inept, inert and/or corrupt require the Developer to build within a specific time frame or is it just another Sloane avenue project [not the stacked shipping container that don't have to pay taxes for ten years] when existing homes were torn down? If the did is there a penalty associated with the time frame and minimum investment required? Lakewood elected officials reminds me of the current DC diabolical with the Russian connection they invented. It appears they are just another group of Democrats blessed with two faces, habitual liars and a strategy of making false acquisitions to promote their agenda.

Crying over spilled milk will not change the past, however, electing a different party into power will, rather it be independent or Republican. Rewarding a Pit Bull that keeps biting until it removes your arse is just plain stupid. Even Lakewood is not exempt from the Detroit syndrome, the richest city in America at one time.

Richard Baker wrote:Crying over spilled milk will not change the past, however, electing a different party into power will, rather it be independent or Republican. Rewarding a Pit Bull that keeps biting until it removes your arse is just plain stupid. Even Lakewood is not exempt from the Detroit syndrome, the richest city in America at one time.

Richard

No one to my knowledge is trying to bring back the hospital, that pooch is thoroughly screwed.

But as you so aptly point out, we must keep the clumsy, the foolish, and the corrupt(?) away from have anything to do with Lakewood government or spending of these funds.

Lakewood is not exempt from Detroit syndrome, and for years we have highlighted the many failures and lies of this crew. Yet they continue to give themselves awards so those that do not follow as closely as you, think, "Damn these guys won something again!" It is all a huge charade meant from day one to fool and lie to the hardworking people of Lakewood. While they go off an play sim city with other people's money for they have none of their own.

While putting the dog down seems rough, we should stop the bloodline, ie line of succession as laid out by King FitzGerald, to Prince Summers, to Lad Sam O'Leary. Or I fear it will be just like a driver's change on the route to Detroit, East Cleveland and other glamours destinations.

As I have said from day one. If you reward a dog for peeing on the Oriental rug, you must love a smelly wet rug.

Me personally I am a huge fan of training.

.

[quote="Jim O'Bryan"][quote="Richard Baker"]

Me personally I am a huge fan of training.

Jim, I'm not suggesting that someone is attempting a reincarnation of a hospital because the evil deed was done.

I was raised on an orchard in NM and we had a Jersey cow [Pet] meaner than a junk yard dog that only my older brother and I could milk while defending our lives. One day Pet decided that the alfalfa field was looking good and with greed she actually broke the gate down. She ate to her greedy hearts delight and bloated, alas, our attempt to relieve the gas by cutting into her rumen was too late. She died, we butchered her, yielding mostly ground beef and her unborn calf, pre-veal that rendered a very tender meat. How could you, you ask, well, we didn't have the luxury of having our meat raised in plastic. Oh, nobody missed that damn mean red cow called Pet.

I'm not sure what that means but it was a damn good story.

Update...

According to insiders, river, lake, water issue far worse than first thought.

From the front page of LO 15_07

“It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations,
if you live near him.” - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit

Stay tuned.

.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Update...

According to insiders, river, lake, water issue far worse than first thought.

From the front page of LO 15_07

“It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations,
if you live near him.” - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit

Stay tuned.

.

One of the jobs of Council is to oversee the the conduct of the Mayor and his departments. As far as I can see there has been no oversight.

Where are the monthly construction updates and status reports? Where is Council?

The worse the Hospital debacle gets the more they Mayor digs in.

Bill Call wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Update...

According to insiders, river, lake, water issue far worse than first thought.

From the front page of LO 15_07

“It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations,
if you live near him.” - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit

Stay tuned.

.

One of the jobs of Council is to oversee the the conduct of the Mayor and his departments. As far as I can see there has been no oversight.

Where are the monthly construction updates and status reports? Where is Council?

The worse the Hospital debacle gets the more they Mayor digs in.

Mr. Call is making a crucial point about government oversight.

The liquidation of the hospital was botched because it was all an insider ballgame.

The redevelopment of the hospital site -- another insider ballgame -- is being botched and now it is time for our elected representatives to provide oversight.

Time for honesty, truth, accountability, and integrity, not PR puffing.

Trust me, voters are keeping score.

Mark Kindt wrote:

Bill Call wrote:

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Update...

According to insiders, river, lake, water issue far worse than first thought.

From the front page of LO 15_07

“It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations,
if you live near him.” - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Hobbit

Stay tuned.

.

One of the jobs of Council is to oversee the the conduct of the Mayor and his departments. As far as I can see there has been no oversight.

Where are the monthly construction updates and status reports? Where is Council?

The worse the Hospital debacle gets the more they Mayor digs in.

Mr. Call is making a crucial point about government oversight.

The liquidation of the hospital was botched because it was all an insider ballgame.

The redevelopment of the hospital site -- another insider ballgame -- is being botched and now it is time for our elected representatives to provide oversight.

Time for honesty, truth, accountability, and integrity, not PR puffing.

Trust me, voters are keeping score.

Mark

They spent nearly a million lying to the public. Think about it 98% of the last election expenditures from O'Leary, Bullock, Summers, Litten were all BS about the hospital. Why we had to hurry. Why we had to skip double checking anything. No time for other ideas. I always thought it was that the foundation was so close to payday, those on the board were in a hurry. Now I know why, rivers wait for no one.


Actual photo of the hidden "river" in the middle of summer with no recent rain.




.

This ignorance and oversight of site suitability puts the City even further down the totem pole when it might come to recovery. How can we (Lakewood) end up worse than when we started?

The City of Lakewood has spent decades documenting the underground flow of water in this city as part of its Clean Water Act permit obligations.

But now we are hearing for the first time that there are underground water issues changing the plans for the former hospital site redevelopment.

So, let's think our way through this.

Just how many studies have been made?

1. Integrated Wet Weather Improvement Plan, Phase 1 (2015)

2. Integrated Wet Weather Improvement Plan, Phase 2 (2019)

3. Intervening engineering studies in support of these plans

4. Tank Removal Reports for Lakewood Hospital (2010)

5. CCF's private architectural plans for the demolition of Lakewood Hospital with multiple schematics (2011-2012)

6. Report after report to the City and LHA by its consultant, Subsidium (2013, 2014, 2015) (including information about cost of structural repairs).

7. The Huron Consulting Report Reviewing The Work of Subsdium (2015)

8. The 4Ward-Planning Study for the redevelopment of the hospital site (2015-2016)

9. The Phase I Environmental Investigation Report (472 pages) of the hospital and its property (2016)

10. Internal work-product of the City planning department in support of the redevelopment RFPs and the Phase I investigation.

So with 10 studies or more, constituting thousands of pages of work-product, the public is expected to believe that the City didn't know about this underground condition. I just don't buy it.