The Observation Deck

Michael Loje wrote:Lets say that three restaurants were subsidized by the city. And I would say thats a stretch to include Ivory Keys. So about 2% are subsidized. That means about 130 odd unsubsidized restaurants seem to be getting along. There will always be attrition, as in any business or location. The recurring question is "why does the city promote the bar/restaurant economy?". The simple answer is, the city doesn't. The commercial districts in Lakewood, built in the teens and twenties, lend themselves to restaurant/bar use. So Lakewood will probably continue as a restaurant mecca for the foreseeable future. By the way, the restaurants in Lakewood have improved greatly in both quality and longevity in the 40 years that I've lived here.
BTW Jim, Who lasted longer, Ivory Keys, or the Titanic at Madison and Arthur?

Mike

Unfair, they had different reasons for existing, and why they closed.

For the record, the City has nearly the same amount of bars they had in the 40s and 50s, but twice as many restaurants. With the edition of patios, and street dinning actual occupancy is way up.

Mike I would ask how you know restaurants are doing well? Have you actually asked them, and how many of them? I deal with them on a different level than most, ads, t-shirts, design, printing, and even helping with Foodwood.

From what I hear, and see they are all under an amazing amount of stress, even some of the best ones in town.

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Michael Loje wrote:Just curious. Does anyone have a listing of Lakewood restaurants that are publicly subsidized?

When I mention publically subsidized restaurants I am speculating about the new development on the Hospital site. Mayor Summers mentioned that business in that area would require public assistance. I think that was just a case of the Mayor inadvertently telling the truth. Don't expect him to say it again. If public subsidies are offered the public will be the last to know.

I still don't understand the Mayors policy of replacing high paying medical jobs with restaurant jobs.

Well guys, I would say that Ivory Keys, World of Beer, B2B and Cirino's place all had one thing in common; the most expensive rent in town. A newly built or renovated building such as INA/Bailey comes with high asking rents. But that, so far, seems not to have hurt Brown Sugar Thai. So go figure. And I just remembered the bar b q place that Brown Sugar replaced. They were there, I believe, a couple of months.
One case I always remember of a restaurant that nobody went to, that should have failed early, was Barnacle Bills. Story was that nobody ever went there. But there they were, paying rent, paying their suppliers and paying their employees for the better part of 20 years. Something tells me they did OK. One thing you gotta remember, bills are relentless. Suppliers, landlords and employees all want to get payed. If you can't pay your bills, you go out of business. I've really only seen a couple of places close in Lakewood over the last few years.
Bill, to your question; is it a policy, or a knee-jerk reaction to a single event?
Getting back to my original question; who lasted longer, Ivory Keys or Titanic?

Michael Loje wrote:Well guys, I would say that Ivory Keys, World of Beer, B2B and Cirino's place all had one thing in common; the most expensive rent in town. A newly built or renovated building such as INA/Bailey comes with high asking rents. But that, so far, seems not to have hurt Brown Sugar Thai. So go figure. And I just remembered the bar b q place that Brown Sugar replaced. They were there, I believe, a couple of months.

Mike

Do you know what the rent is? I have heard two completely different numbers pn what Ivory Keys was paying, what was agreed to, and what was expected.

As for the BBQ place, they were in waaaaaaay over their heads. AS reported here at the time 1) He got into the business because his friends told him he had great BBQ. Friends rarely say FREE BBQ in a backyard with beer is bad. Two they were assured by the City Administration, "You will be able to make good money JUST off the students at University of Akron." Of course we now realize that was very much an illusion to make the City, the Administration and driving forces in "DowntowN" seem successful. As was "5Guys headquarters" which should be remembered was not a headquarters, not a regional office, and was not brought here by anyone connected with the people that said they brought them here. Another illusion.

Michael Loje wrote:One case I always remember of a restaurant that nobody went to, that should have failed early, was Barnacle Bills. Story was that nobody ever went there. But there they were, paying rent, paying their suppliers and paying their employees for the better part of 20 years. Something tells me they did OK. One thing you gotta remember, bills are relentless. Suppliers, landlords and employees all want to get payed. If you can't pay your bills, you go out of business. I've really only seen a couple of places close in Lakewood over the last few years.

Mike Barnacle Bills made a fortune every weekend. People would come in for "As Many Crab Legs As You Can Eat!" which was always about two buckets, which is what was also on the menu for $1.50 less. They is the legend of one of Lakewood's most successful footballers eating 8 buckets, but that is legend. While it was empty most nights, from my office you could see them streaming in on Friday and the Weekends. They are still open in Mentor. Also their brick place in the flats was destroyed by fire one night.

Michael Loje wrote:Getting back to my original question; who lasted longer, Ivory Keys or Titanic?

Mike, they closed for different reasons neither having to do with Food, Service, or Quantity. Both lasted different lengths of times for reasons as different as night and day. Titanic is an extremely specialized set of circumstances. Ivory Keys, seems to be down to many reasons the biggest is a misunderstanding, and a complete misread on number of restaurants, concepts, and believing the hype about Lakewood, instead of the facts.

While you say the City does not market the City as a place for restaurants, I would argue they do. They City does through their various means, the Chamber does through their various means, Other Lakewood groups do through various means, and the Observer does through the paper and here on line. People think Lakewood is a food destination, and the City of Lakewood DESPERATE to create Lakewood as a destination, instead of a great place to live and raise a family work it overtime. Look at Councilman O'Nalley's response. Look at the ribbon cuttings and the hype associated with 5 Guys, B2B, Melt, Mahall's, Quaker Steak and Lube.

After the failure of the West End Strip Mall, they turned to "DowntowN" and a desperate need to turn Lakewood into a destination. Hell look at the latest farce by the same people "One Lakewood" no not City Hall where it was created years ago when Mayor Ed FitzGerald sold them the website name. But the new "One-Lakewood Multi-Use Strip Mall" which ex-Mayor Ed FitzGerald is part of. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Which features unique City financed things we do not have currently like, our 7th coffee shop! Our 6th ice cream place, our 4th Pet Store and our 8th dry cleaner! Now wonder City Administration sees it as a great future success story. One can only heop they have room for our 35th-40th yoga studios.

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Jim, it is just a fact that new construction and high profile remodels are more expensive than older space that is usually fixed up by the tenant.
Another thing to consider, too, is the landlord. A space that has already been occupied by a restaurant is usually easiest to rent as a restaurant. So, the landlord will usually market such a space for restaurant use. Let me ask again, Jim, give us some ideas for alternative use for some of these storefronts on Detroit and Madison.

Michael Loje wrote:Jim, it is just a fact that new construction and high profile remodels are more expensive than older space that is usually fixed up by the tenant.
Another thing to consider, too, is the landlord. A space that has already been occupied by a restaurant is usually easiest to rent as a restaurant. So, the landlord will usually market such a space for restaurant use. Let me ask again, Jim, give us some ideas for alternative use for some of these storefronts on Detroit and Madison.

Michael

While I would agree about in most cases new construction, and highly remodeled spaces are more expensive, but not sure either applies here. I mean that, I am not sure, and I know it did not figure into one lease if not both. Both had been already built out as restaurants, so as to your second point, the cost to set up was negligible. I know in the one incident the cost of running up until opening was also negligible. Both were experienced restaurateurs as least as far as the last two in. Both had concepts that should of done well. B2B while another yet another place to get ground beef in various forms, had their price points spot on, should the volume be there. Ivory Keys was following a craze that is big in other cities, but it gets us back to your favorite subject the Hillard/Westwood Theater. One works in larger cities does not always transfer well or profitably to smaller cities. Both had ideas that would work with a modicum of flow. Which is 1 turn of tables, Monday-Wednesday, 1.5 Turn of Tables on Thursday, and 2.5 turn of tavles on Friday, Saturday and Sunday. That would be to pay staff, pay overhead and pay themselves after build out paid off. Most restaurateurs count of the rush of 1-3 months after the opening to cover the build out. That rush was not met with Ivory Keys, so it immediately spiraled out of control. B2B ran into 2 issues, 1 accessibility, 2 another place to get OK food most based on ground beef. In other words, which place does one go for their ground beef portion that week. It has also hit better burger places then theirs and they were OK.

Also Mike, if I may be so bold, you live in rarefied air, most of Lakewood does not. So if you are feeding a family of 4, and B2B has good meals for $5 - $10, or Two Big Bufords for $5. Two Burger King Meals deals for $4.99. Dinner pack for 6 from Mickie Ds for $11.00? Add into that all of the other Fast Food/Gas Station places serving food, and it gets tough real quick. And if you are not in the top ten of food, then the choices become easier and easier.

Lakewood's Newest Restaurant...


Just off I-90. Across the street from the best and cheapest soda beverage in America. The any size Polar Pop for $0.79! This is during a beverage war at Mickie Ds, Hardee's, Rally's and Wendy's/

As for what to do with them, I would imagine anything that is successful. Which becomes harder and harder, and the economy turns. But in a city of 51,000 it would seem there are still some niches to fill.

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Michael Loje wrote: Let me ask again, Jim, give us some ideas for alternative use for some of these storefronts on Detroit and Madison.

Jim O'Bryan wrote: Also Mike, if I may be so bold, you live in rarefied air, most of Lakewood does not.
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More "We Buy Gold" & "Hair & Nails" stores?

I cut what little hair I have my self every other week with my Wahl clippers on a No. 2 setting in my "rarefied air" so I don't use the hair salons and I don't have any gold to sell.

In my "rarefied air", I may be a little out of touch, but I hear from another Edgewater resident on the other side of Lakewood Park that there is a real demand for these types of stores and salons.

How about tattoo parlors? They certainly are in “in-demand” service, especially amongst the millenials the city seeks to attract.

But funny thing, the contract for the development of One Lakewood specifically notes that tattoo parlors are prohibited in the building.

Why?

Spit-balling here with a few things that Lakewood could use. Thinking of things I go out of town for:

* A real electronics/computer store. Somewhere I can get my printer toner when it runs out, cables when I need them, headphones, etc. Yes, there are several PC repair stores but the inventory isn't that great. Would really like a Best Buy Express like they have in some bigger cities.
* Marshalls/Ross/TJ Maxx type of store. Yes, they are all chains but we don't really have any great clothing options in town. Geiger's is a wonderful store but definitely on the pricier side. When I need business clothes, we usually go shop at Marshalls or something like that. Some large cities I have been in, these stores do not have large footprints.
* A Chinese restaurant that serves Dim Sum. We have a fair number of Chinese restaurants but none of the ones in Lakewood, to my knowledge, serve Dim Sum. Need to head to AsiaTown or elsewhere to get that.

I know none of them will probably open but in the spirit of "what could we do with the empty storefronts", I wanted to participate.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:

J Hrlec wrote:Spot on.

I guess some people can take any news topic in Lakewood and point it towards city government as a negative.

...But don;t let reason or critical thought get in the way of your blind hatred.



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I guess came to the perfect board then, thanks!

Matthew Lee wrote:S
* A Chinese restaurant that serves Dim Sum. We have a fair number of Chinese restaurants but none of the ones in Lakewood, to my knowledge, serve Dim Sum. Need to head to AsiaTown or elsewhere to get that.

As Lakewood moves toward increased homogenization, this is exactly what is at risk.

You may remember the Wu restaurant in the Warren plaza, a trained-in-China professional chef, Mr. Wu, produced some of the finest Asian cuisine in a very modest establishment. The block was torn down and, I believe, replaced by a Walgreens.

The unique was replaced by the mundane.

Mark Kindt wrote:

Matthew Lee wrote:S
* A Chinese restaurant that serves Dim Sum. We have a fair number of Chinese restaurants but none of the ones in Lakewood, to my knowledge, serve Dim Sum. Need to head to AsiaTown or elsewhere to get that.

As Lakewood moves toward increased homogenization, this is exactly what is at risk.

You may remember the Wu restaurant in the Warren plaza, a trained-in-China professional chef, Mr. Wu, produced some of the finest Asian cuisine in a very modest establishment. The block was torn down and, I believe, replaced by a Walgreens.

The unique was replaced by the mundane.

Mark

Wu's restaurant was the birthplace of the Lakewood Observer. It was were the idea was hatched, agreed on, and started from. Wu's was amazing. It should be noted that he moved to Cleveland Asian Village and is still in business.

When I saw you had posted I had hoped you would make the point you brought up over coffee this morning. What is any business in Lakewood should be funded or underwritten in any way by the City of Lakewood government? Is it ever needed or proper? Should it be used for restaurants, coffee shops and ice cream parlors in a city that is already saturated with them? This is in regards to "DowntowN" Lakewood restaurants, especially those in the "One Lakewood Plaza" not to be confused with the "One Lakewood" that became Lakewood City Hall's address after then Mayor FitzGerald sold it to Lakewood, instead of our government address like other cities in America, and long before the plans he had for "One Lakewood Plaza" in exchange for our largest employer, Downtown anchor and center of our health care "decanted" for the underwhelming "One Lakewood Plaza" which is just another multi use strip mall. Oh wait, it was hatched all at the same time!

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The Lakewood restaurants I frequent most are the Beer Engine, and the MerryArts on Mondays and Thursdays. If that qualifies me as rarefied, then I'me guilty. But even at those places, Lakewood residents are not in the majority of customers. And when you speak of Speedy's at Bunts and Lakewood Hts, or McDonalds, Lakewood residents are not taking their families there for dinner. People passing through go there for a fast bite. Most families, though, do what Rhonda and I do 90% of the time; we eat at home.

Wu's is no longer in business. He shut down the Asia Town restaurant at least 7 years ago. It was the best Chinese food in the City, but hey - we got a second Walgreens!!

After Wu left Rockwell Ave, I believe he went to Mentor and I lost track of him. By that time, I had discovered another great, closer, Chinese restaurant; Peking Gourmet in South Euclid. It was, ironically, the sister restaurant to the Szechuan Garden on Detroit. Same owners, same menu. However, there was one stark, major difference in preparation between the two. Szechuan Garden was heavy handed on frying, and Peking Gourmet was more on gentle sautéing. Pineapple shrimp was on the menu at both places, but at Peking Gourmet it was something to behold. I asked Szechuan Garden if they could do the PG preparation, and I was told no, different chefs. But then, Peking Gourmet's Cedar Center location was torn down, and once again we were left without a Chinese restaurant.