Trinity Lutheran

[Valerie Molinski]

Well, I stand corrected....Wendy's is definitely trying to move in.
I stick to my belief that this would mean closure of the W. 117th location.
The swarms of panhandlers on W. 117 (particularly by the convenience store on the Cleveland side, next to the tracks) have made that area feel very unsafe for many people.

Here's how I see it.....

BENEFITS
Lakewood steals a business from Cleveland.
Lakewood turns a tax exempt church property into a taxable commercial property.
Lakewood would add some jobs, albeit most of them very low wage.
Frosty-loving Lakewoodites would no longer need to drive to Rocky River (or dodge the W. 117 panhandlers) for their fix.

NEGATIVES
Traffic will be a nightmare on that stretch of Detroit Ave.
Folks on the adjoining side streets will see a lot more traffic. Woodward already has major issues.
Lakewood loses another piece of its cultural heritage. (Although to be fair, every church can't be saved).
City Hall is bringing in another national chain to undercut our local businesses.
If the fast food industry has its way, most of their workers will be replaced by automation. So most of those new jobs could be gone in a few years.

Here's how I see it:
I know someone that works at Wendy's corporate- he is in bldg efficiency and operations so not affiliated with real estate purchases.... but I can tell you that when they purchase property for new locations, they often do it anonymously through a broker so the sellers do not know who is buying it to avoid issues like the price being raised due to them being seen as a national chain with deep pockets.If the church did indeed sell to Wendys, they may or may not have known it.
I would love to see the church property saved and reuse, but it's been up for sale since 2015. I can understand the church wanting to sell to anyone willing whether the building stays or not.
As I remind people all of the time when these conversations veer toward 'blame the city,' ala Detroit Theater, it is a private real estate transaction and the city doesn't have a say in that. If the parcel is zoned or can be zoned for this use, the city cant do anything about it. We can hope the BZA and ABR do the work to get the best possible outcome out of the creation of a new building.
The drive through regulations put in place after McDonalds makes these project difficult.
The Wendy's on West 117th is more than a mile away and in a different city, technically, so my bet is the West 117th is not poached and stays open. It is also pretty busy and they don't pull businesses away from successful franchisees.


Which national chain did the 'city bring in' prior to this and on which property?

That's not really how this works. You know these national chains have real estate departments and independent brokers that find these properties for them, right?

[Michael Deneen]

The Wendy's on West 117th is more than a mile away and in a different city, technically, so my bet is the West 117th is not poached and stays open. It is also pretty busy and they don't pull businesses away from successful franchisees.

The W. 117th location will be cannibalized by this Lakewood location. Wendy's are more rare than McDonalds because of their higher price point....that's why there are relatively few in the city of Cleveland. (and locations like Lorain/W. 30th have survived by serving suburbanites like Ignatius students).

Without Lakewood diners, I don't see how that W. 117 location survives....not enough money in that Cleveland neighborhood to keep it viable.
As you may remember, something similar happened with Giant Eagle....they closed their Clifton/W115 location to move to the W. 117 site off I-90.

Which national chain did the 'city bring in' prior to this and on which property?

McDonalds (theater property), Bob Evans (on Detroit), Drug Mart on Grace (not a national chain, but a big player nonetheless).

That's not really how this works. You know these national chains have real estate departments and independent brokers that find these properties for them, right?

Yes, I'm familiar with Mr. Kroc's legacy. However, the chains need City Hall help to get around stuff like the "drive through" rules. As JOB has noted, Taco Bell got a lot of leeway on this.

[Bridget Conant]

Wendy’s has to meet all city rules and regulations, so saying the city has no control over who locates where is not accurate.

If the drive through rules are waived or bent to allow Wendy’s on that spot, then the city IS complicit in encouraging that kind of development.

I just do not know how anyone could be excited over a fast food place with bright red markings and a “Wendy” caricature replacing a beautiful brick structure.

Soon, Detroit will look like every main road in every busy suburb. But that’s not a good thing. It’s the homogenization of America.

[Valerie Molinski]

The W. 117th location will be cannibalized by this Lakewood location. Wendy's are more rare than McDonalds because of their higher price point....that's why there are relatively few in the city of Cleveland. (and locations like Lorain/W. 30th have survived by serving suburbanites like Ignatius students).

Without Lakewood diners, I don't see how that W. 117 location survives....not enough money in that Cleveland neighborhood to keep it viable.

Wendy's aren't more rare because of their price point. it is because they keep a tight lid on franchisees and locations so they DONT poach each other. They must think both can survive with each other not being far or they would not let this happen. But I will concede that time might prove you correct on the amount of business pulled from West 117th

As you may remember, something similar happened with Giant Eagle....they closed their Clifton/W115 location to move to the W. 117 site off I-90.

I remember. This isn't remotely the situation that I recall. Giant Eagle couldn't expand and they were landlocked over there at the time since the church (now torn down) and the KeyBank kiosk wasn't moving. They wanted a bigger and newer store that they could not get from the Clifton location.

McDonalds (theater property), Bob Evans (on Detroit), Drug Mart on Grace (not a national chain, but a big player nonetheless).

I'm pretty sure you aren't correct on any of these. McDonald's approached the Theater owner. Ganley sold to Drug Mart without the city's input until the transaction was in progress. I went to all of the meetings since I live near there. Further, I don't remember the city soliciting any of these businesses/chains for specific sites. They were all private real estate transactions first.

Yes, I'm familiar with Mr. Kroc's legacy. However, the chains need City Hall help to get around stuff like the "drive through" rules. As JOB has noted, Taco Bell got a lot of leeway on this.

Wasn't Taco Bell was a redo on their existing site? Not sure how much leeway they got. As JOB also noted, Starbucks grabbed BK because of the difficulty of building new on Detroit with the drive through regulations.

[Valerie Molinski]

Wendy’s has to meet all city rules and regulations, so saying the city has no control over who locates where is not accurate.

If the drive through rules are waived or bent to allow Wendy’s on that spot, then the city IS complicit in encouraging that kind of development.

I just do not know how anyone could be excited over a fast food place with bright red markings and a “Wendy” caricature replacing a beautiful brick structure.

Soon, Detroit will look like every main road in every busy suburb. But that’s not a good thing. It’s the homogenization of America.

I said they don't have control who buys a property through a PRIVATE REAL ESTATE transaction. Whether a national chain wants to go through the headaches of trying to fit their prototype into a parcel with regulations we have, or if they can, they try to work out later. Sales are often contingent on what a city will let them do or if they have rules in place that might make a build out too expensive for them, but that due diligence is usually done once the sale was in progress and the finalization of the sale is often contingent on those factors. I used to work on branch banks for a large bank that did it this way as well... I am assuming someone like Wendys operates the same.

Who is saying they are excited by this?

[Jim O'Bryan]

One more notable negative.

Closure of the W. 117th Wendy's will fuel the perception of the W. 117th area as being riddled with crime, panhandlers and carjackers.
Although it's on the Cleveland side of the border, this will be a sign of growing blight on the eastern edge of Lakewood.

According to sources, some that should know, some that could know.

W117St. Wendy's is not closing, it is a franchised Wendy's/

The Trinity spot has already received one "No thank you no Wendy;'s there from City Hall." But Wendy's Corporate has expressed interest in securing the spot. Which brings us to speculation and conversation now going on in the city.

I have to believe when it is a done deal, Val should know before any of us.

.

[Valerie Molinski]

I have to believe when it is a done deal, Val should know before any of us.

.

Nope. I know it when everyone else does, and I don't get insider info, despite what you are intimating. Since I sometimes participate in online discussions such as these, these matters are not discussed until there is information out in the public sphere.

[Michael Deneen]

W117St. Wendy's is not closing, it is a franchised Wendy's/

Back when the new Avon Hospital was announced, the official company line was "Lakewood Hospital is not closing". I think we'll see the same result here.
There isn't enough demand for four Wendy's in such a small area. (Trinity, W 117, Rocky River, W140 Lorain)

Any idea if Burger King will get a new location once Starbucks takes over the current one?

[Valerie Molinski]

W117St. Wendy's is not closing, it is a franchised Wendy's/

Any idea if Burger King will get a new location once Starbucks takes over the current one?

There's already another BK at Madison near Coutant.

[Bridget Conant]

Well, Wendy’s is a no go.

According to a Facebook post by Tristan Rader, Bryce Sylvester notified council members that Wendy’s corporate has decided not to pursue the Trinity site.

[Michael Loje]

Valerie Molinski said it best. Even though Wendy's backed out, somebody else will make an offer. I'm sure the Trinity group would like to sell it soon. And unless that buyer's plan include adapting the church building to their use, you could be sure the church building will be gone. And many of us may not like what replaces it. There may even be uses less desirable than fast food. As Valerie states, this would be a transaction between two private entities, and unless its an illegal use...

[Michael Loje]

Consider, too, The Brownstones of Derbyshire. A former Lutheran church at the top of Cedar Hill in Cleveland Heights. Converted into five condominiums. A good use. Remember any new commercial construction that would replace the church would be of the "disposable" variety, such as our dollar stores, drug stores, fast food, Bob Evans, etc.. These could be found anywhere, and are really not a good fit for Lakewood.

[T Peppard]

Wendy’s in Euclid, Ohio has lines of cars backing up traffic on East 222nd all the time. This is a terrible idea and will bring further congestion to Detroit.

Worse yet, another fast food chain moves into Lakewood or moves to a better location in Lakewood. I was fine with McDonalds being on the outskirts... far from the heart of the city. Lakewood was UNIQUE with great character & minimal chain stores... Nature’s Bin, the Detroit movie theater, the Hilliard theatre, the Root, Lion and Blue, etc.

I understand change, but with the complacency of so many folks accepting the loss of our hospital, the most vital economic anchor, this does not surprise me. My Ward 1 councilman, David Anderson, did nothing to stop Mc Donalds from moving in and voted in support of CLOSING THE HOSPITAL. I suggested a West side Cedar Lee to save the Detroit theater. I suggested some city incentive like the loan they gave to the insurance group that moved into the church by Taco Bell. I was new to the city at the time and really thought the leadership would never let this happen. Given his record, I am sure this move will be embraced as positive economic development.

[Michael Loje]

Would anyone object to condos at Trinity Lutheran? Would that be worse than a Burger King or a dollar store?

[michael gill]

Michael, something like Brownstones at Derbyshire would be great. I toured that while they were building it, and they made great use of the nave, windows, etc. I think they sliced it into 4 units, then of course put townhomes in the church yard.

Also, Nottingham Spirk did a great thing with the church of Christ Scientist at the crest of the hill there.

Condos ... office ... either would be great, iconic adaptive re-use. And it seems to me would fit the city's one-time interest in "nodes" of commerce, with residential in between, as a way od adjusting to the changing market for retail space.

Just needs a buyer with that interest.