The Observation Deck

Jim….

You have floated 3-4 ideas in the last few months regarding Deck moderation. This one is far-and-away the best one I have heard.

I don’t think you’ll ever get a serious groundswell on here the way things stand. You certainly won’t fulfill the Deck’s potential and “win” Lakewood. Too many thoughtful posts are almost instantly followed up with a “that reminds me of Lord So-And-So” or similar parochialism. Just taken out and shot. GOOD GRIEF GIVE IT A REST! The last time this happened to me I mostly stopped originating stuff. And good, thoughtful OPs bring in the eyeballs I suspect, though I don’t pretend to know much about what drives forum traffic….

I really think that permitting the OP to (optionally) moderate their own threads would encourage more people to engage in more diverse conversations. Who knows, maybe a little more interest below the fold (e.g. Global Discussion) will result. You could try it there first. What harm trying, nobody much is down there now.

Jim if you let me moderate my own threads, I’ll try to find more time to contribute, and maybe others (Yoo-Hoo! Ryan!) will too. Others but not boring like me. Lately the only thing I’ve felt motivated to post are a couple humorous little trifles. (Well *I* thought they were funny!) And a response here and there. I have about a half dozen full-blown items for Global Discussion just waiting. One called Wishful Thinking, another A Penny Saved, and 2-3 more. Not totally boring like monetary policy and central banking. But even crickets are better than the mayor/hospital/council thread killing field. Crickets I can tolerate….

The hospital debate has simultaneously been the best and worst thing to happen to the Deck.

(PS if it was my Deck, school posts would be moved to the school forum without a second thought. I think doing so would be for the betterment of both forums.)

Bridget Conant wrote:Look on Facebook. Lots of people thought the Light up Lakewood was overrated. Perhaps fun for little ones, but young adults, not so much.

If you want to keep the millennials you claim you attract, then why aren't you doing things that appeal to them?

Check out both the Lakewood Ohio FB and Pae's Lakewood Ohio (Community,) especially since it will probably get deleted on that copycat page.

And ......it's gone! Didn't take them too long to deep six the "negative" thread.



Hard to believe it's adults posting there. The need to shield themselves from any contrary opinion is so strange.

Bridget Conant wrote:

Bridget Conant wrote:Look on Facebook. Lots of people thought the Light up Lakewood was overrated. Perhaps fun for little ones, but young adults, not so much.

If you want to keep the millennials you claim you attract, then why aren't you doing things that appeal to them?

Check out both the Lakewood Ohio FB and Pae's Lakewood Ohio (Community,) especially since it will probably get deleted on that copycat page.

And ......it's gone! Didn't take them too long to deep six the "negative" thread.



Hard to believe it's adults posting there. The need to shield themselves from any contrary opinion is so strange.

It's still on the non-City Hall group page. They are much more tolerant of divergent views.

"But if Stephan Hawking stopping in to talk quantum physics and black holes, how long would it take him to find out, we have no black holes because the mayor took them and we have no hospital to find them. To over simply."

100% agree. This is what I am talking about.

Isn't this the point in the thread where Mike Deneen jumps in and says "Soltice Steps"? Or where Bridget says something about a "Pants Store"? Or everybody's favorite, Lori Allen, with the "Lord Lakewood, Money laundering, house stealing, Armond Budish, this is larger than you could possibly imagine, " post. Or the worst of the worst are comments that a specific Lakewood business owner is racist. This last example makes my blood boil. So small minded, so childish.

Do something Jim. Anything.

The Deck is a small room and it doesn't have to be. Sure lots of people see it, but only the same few people take part in the conversation. And the conversation is the exact same on every thread.

I know a bunch of people that would participate and post here but they don't. These are smart people, business owners in Lakewood, industry leaders in their professions, people that could up the game in the Deck. You're not getting any of them. The reason why? They choose not to be in a conversation that will go to the same place within 3 posts (Soltice Steps, Lord Lakewood, etc...).

Thanks,

Patrick

I agree with the idea of trying to let people moderate their own threads. It may lead to a very high thread count instead, as people who feel their voice has been silenced on some post will put up competing posts.

Sometimes I think the most awesome idea would be a comment/post limit per day or week. That's probably not something that is built into whatever bulletin board software this is. But that would allow people to select where they want to give their two cents for that week and prevent people from commenting multiple times on every thread.

What we can't do is have this place be like the one that Patrick Wadden moderates on facebook where only one point of view is allowed to post and anything that doesn't jive with the unstated and hidden agenda of the group is deleted.

Patrick Wadden wrote: Do something Jim. Anything.

Patrick

Be the change you wish to see. (addressed to all)

As much as sometimes it bothers me, others have every right to jump in as the forum sits now. Something I can tolerate.

Solstice Steps, and the Hospital are punchlines, much like, "And then she ordered Lobster" is for an expensive date. Rarely is lobster the most expensive thing on the menu any longer.

We should all appreciate that while the Solstice Steps, were poured costing $2.1 million the concrete pool, just 3 football fields away needed $2.5 million in repair.

And there we have it, a little mention, and off we all go...

It is not a call to drop hospital talk, or Solstice Step talk, it is a way to help organize on a small level the conversation.

In a recent document the City presented to the courts, they basically back up 8 points Brian Essi tried to make. Between his hyperbole, and the BS blowback, I think everyone would be better had it been planer and easier to read.

Under what I am talking about, and to answer Dan Alaimo, I have ZERO idea how it works. But, a poster could flag a comment as "trolling" and we would look and then remove it our not to another thread, or start its own thread.

I have zero interest in looking at Facebook and their ways of doing business. They still have a small section of the web, and more people leaving it hourly, as they toon have found out, humans are just nasty.

Perhaps we need to meet over coffee and or drinks and food to talk about this.

Together, we can make this better, or not. As some point out it does work pretty good already.

.

It is quite obvious that the mayor and his friends don't like things that are written here. Is that a reason to change up the whole Deck? Should the mayor and a few of his friends have control of the Deck?

Never was David Stein called a racist by me, or anyone that I know of.

Instead of complaining, I would really like to see the evidence that proves Brian Essi, myself, and others here wrong. I would really like to see the documents that Butler is holding hostage. Documentation, not fluff or chest-thumping from the mayor.

Jim, please don't let City Hall and their crew control the Deck. It has worked fine now for years.

Lori Allen _ wrote:It is quite obvious that the mayor and his friends don't like things that are written here. Is that a reason to change up the whole Deck? Should the mayor and a few of his friends have control of the Deck?

Never was David Stein called a racist by me, or anyone that I know of.

Instead of complaining, I would really like to see the evidence that proves Brian Essi, myself, and others here wrong. I would really like to see the documents that Butler is holding hostage. Documentation, not fluff or chest-thumping from the mayor.

Jim, please don't let City Hall and their crew control the Deck. It has worked fine now for years.

Lori

This is absurd. What makes you think City Hall has any control on anything here?

At the same time, City Hall is filled with residents and people that work here, should they have no input?

To go over all of this one more time. This would have NO CHANGE in the way the Observer currently works. It would only come in IF, an author had a good reason to report it because it became a problem. This is available now, no one uses it.

Lori, I can assure you, City Hall, Schools have no control over this project, all are welcomed to join in and suggest ideas.

It is how we work.

.

Whoa there!

I was merely suggesting not to allow a few complainers from City Hall or their friends to change the whole Deck. I would absolutely invite those from City Hall to come on the Deck and share their documentation. It appears that those from City Hall or their friends that come on the Deck always try to throw a monkey wrench in, but seldom bring any actual documentation to back up what they are saying.

That is all. No harm, no foul. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.

Lori Allen _ wrote:Whoa there!

I was merely suggesting not to allow a few complainers from City Hall or their friends to change the whole Deck. I would absolutely invite those from City Hall to come on the Deck and share their documentation. It appears that those from City Hall or their friends that come on the Deck always try to throw a monkey wrench in, but seldom bring any actual documentation to back up what they are saying.

That is all. No harm, no foul. I didn't mean to ruffle any feathers.

Lori

No worry, I can take it.

NONE OF THIS comes from City Hall or the Schools, but from talking with people out there.

As you know, this is a put up or shut up type of place.

BUT, Facebook besides being nasty, in a positive way, it cannot have the long running discussions we have here. There are posts going back over a decade, updated and brought up now and then.

SO MY THOUGHT was, how do we up the game, get more minds involved, and allow the open vetting of opinions and ideas, on a better level.

Lori, as you delightfully jumped in, I will use you as an example.

You and your son, are amazing at many of the things you have brought here, really, everyone in this city is amazed, let me assure you, at the same time the hyperbole tends to turn people off. So from the civic side of the project, how can I make your facts more obvious and easier to read, while protecting Lori Allen's persona? Again, one of the secrets of the Observer, is the long Observation. This is why they want it shut down, not the hospital but a decade of debacles on record, easy to access. Most civic leaders marginalizing the Deck have flamed out here, bent facts here, and run tall tales and got caught. Hence they do not come, and tell everyone else not to go. Group think and peer pressure takes over, and the important facts on the past and the future are missed.

The next 4 years in Lakewood will take some serious oversight, and serious discussion, from what I see that puts a huge burden on Lakewood Observers to stay sharp, rise above the petty BS, and deliver FACTS, just as we have in the past on the hospital, schools, city hall, developments, restaurants, etc.. Many people including those of us here, believe we are fair, open, and willing to discuss the tough stuff. We need to up that game and brand.

This is not an effort to control or stage the discussion, but to make sure enough people take part to give us a larger understanding of the community.

I do not like staged discussion or "conspiracies" I would hope that no one posts things other say to post, unless you believe it, or want input from others on those thoughts and opinions.

So maybe a holiday or post holiday party, for a little face to face and see, what if anything, can improve it?

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Dan Alaimo wrote:Curious how this will work in practice, how the forums might be integrated, how traffic might be driven from one forum to another, and from the outside in.

Dan

As you know, the forums and the layout is not the original. A person that was taking over for me, and was subsequently harassed out of the job by some posters, was trying to arrange it how it made sense for them. As you found out, I am open open to anything, especially the project being run by young mothers, who have completely different thoughts than I. This is one of the reasons, I get a kick out of "O'Bryan controls..." stop whining and step up.

As you know we talked about reorganizing the Deck which is a massive undertaking.

Most thought, a hot ACTIVE section with things being filed after they had fallen to page 3. The problem, what would have happened with school projects, sports, many thing that should hit the top again.

As with all aspects of this project, let me know how to make it better, more exclusive, more precise and I am more than willing to listen and try it.

.

Bridget Conant wrote:

I post a thread about a great holiday party, backed by Downtown Lakewood Business Association, LakewoodAlive, and many Lakewood Businesses, including "oh the horror, Cotton and Plantation Home, run by the nasty and evil David Stein." The whole thing is crazy, and we have to figure it out.

Where else would Amy best make her comment about HER experience at Light up Lakewood? On a new thread with a big headline?

I thought it was appropriate. You may think LUL is a a big whoop de doo, but not everyone is so charmed.

Bridget

Amy was well within her rights.

Amy could make her comment anywhere she wanted. But the poster of the original thread could decide, does it add to their discussion or distract? From there it would have to be up to someone to make that decision, outside of the poster, to move it or not. A logistical nightmare, but it cannot be a tool of war, but a tool of discussion.

So let's use me for the example. I make the post, I find it does not add or belong, I report it, and a second party makes the decision, strictly based on if it fits or not.

Then if moved, it could be moved to another header or thread, or left in.

Really, this was not about censorship, change, control, etc. Simply a question.

If Stephan Hawking came in, and tried to be serious, would we allow him the right to try to keep his conversation in the ballpark?

Academia, Professionals are funny about the public discussions they get in. Especially when they could live forever.

Does it destroy the brand? Do we even want Hawking here?

All legitimate questions.

So what's to stop someone from thinking they can come here, start a thread full of mistruths, then, as the thread originator, have the ability to remove or "censor" any posts they deem off-topic (whether they really are, or not,) in order to control the conversation.

Sounds like the phony Lakewood FB page - pretend you're there for the community to all join in and participate, but have a few admins who quickly delete anything they consider "negative" towards the city leaders.

Tim Liston wrote:Jim….

You have floated 3-4 ideas in the last few months regarding Deck moderation. This one is far-and-away the best one I have heard.

I don’t think you’ll ever get a serious groundswell on here the way things stand. You certainly won’t fulfill the Deck’s potential and “win” Lakewood. Too many thoughtful posts are almost instantly followed up with a “that reminds me of Lord So-And-So” or similar parochialism. Just taken out and shot. GOOD GRIEF GIVE IT A REST! The last time this happened to me I mostly stopped originating stuff. And good, thoughtful OPs bring in the eyeballs I suspect, though I don’t pretend to know much about what drives forum traffic….

I really think that permitting the OP to (optionally) moderate their own threads would encourage more people to engage in more diverse conversations. Who knows, maybe a little more interest below the fold (e.g. Global Discussion) will result. You could try it there first. What harm trying, nobody much is down there now.

Jim if you let me moderate my own threads, I’ll try to find more time to contribute, and maybe others (Yoo-Hoo! Ryan!) will too. Others but not boring like me. Lately the only thing I’ve felt motivated to post are a couple humorous little trifles. (Well *I* thought they were funny!) And a response here and there. I have about a half dozen full-blown items for Global Discussion just waiting. One called Wishful Thinking, another A Penny Saved, and 2-3 more. Not totally boring like monetary policy and central banking. But even crickets are better than the mayor/hospital/council thread killing field. Crickets I can tolerate….

The hospital debate has simultaneously been the best and worst thing to happen to the Deck.

(PS if it was my Deck, school posts would be moved to the school forum without a second thought. I think doing so would be for the betterment of both forums.)

Tim

So much to play off of.

1) Let me speak with Dan and others about trying it on Global for a month. Great idea. Let's shoot for January 1.

2) Schools, this is the problem, and the best part of the Deck.
If I remember you are not a fan of public schools, for various reasons including personal, you are also a bit of a libertarian.

When this project was started, promises were made to the Library, the Schools and City Hall. Just because City Hall went back on all of them, does not mean I will, or they are excluded or will be treated differently.

The hospital debate, the school debate, and others have been great for the Deck and the Community. A council person that will remain nameless went back in the new archive of all hospital stuff, and was amazed how correct it was portrayed from day 1. To my knowledge, some have complained about "God coming to get them" but have found little wrong in Essi's numbers or facts on the hospital.

How doe we make it easier to highlight facts, while not stepping on Amy's toes about here shopping experiences?

2017, let's have some fun with this.

.

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Bridget Conant wrote:So what's to stop someone from thinking they can come here, start a thread full of mistruths, then, as the thread originator, have the ability to remove or "censor" any posts they deem off-topic (whether they really are, or not,) in order to control the conversation.

Sounds like the phony Lakewood FB page - pretend you're there for the community to all join in and participate, but have a few admins who quickly delete anything they consider "negative" towards the city leaders.

Bridget

I never used the words delete, or that only the Original Poster controls anything.

I would hope, anything remotely considered on the topic would stay in the thread. I would say calls for a persons credentials, sources, etc would remain the same as in the past. And they would answer or not, and observations would follow.

If FB page is a city hall op, I believe will come under the same scrutiny if you have paid any attention to Mark Kindt's posts.

Bridget, I have asked for help thinking through many aspects of the Deck, that is all I am doing now.

Even this discussion is good for the Deck and all participants, I know you believe that.

At the end, maybe nothing changes, who knows.

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