I do think Corey brings a viewpoint to the Deck. However, many times technique can obscure the main message. Therefore, I think posters ought to resist the "trick shit" (that's a 60s term referring to cheap auto options) and stick to simple sentences and paragraphs. Kinda like what we were taught way back when.
Stan Austin
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 7:08 pm
by Ryan Salo
Sharon
Please stop the vulgarity.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 10:43 pm
by Meg Ostrowski
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Over the past couple weeks we have watched the heat of rhetoric climb to what some thought were dangerous levels. "Dangerous" is when we start to worry. As I mentioned we put together a volunteer advisory board, to look at new ways for the Deck and Observer to interact with the community. As witnessed by Missy's latest posting, no one should ever be afraid to post on the Deck.
The rule the Deck has been under since day one.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “The Observation Deck” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “The Observation Deck” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “The Observation Deck” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
Potential New Rules
By registering at the Lakewood Observer Message Boards, users agree that any post deemed inappropriate may be removed at the sole discretion of the Lakewood Observer. Lakewood Observer also has the right, at its sole discretion, to revoke board privileges at any time without notice or reason. In simple terms: if you break the rules, you can be banned. Exploiting loopholes to circumvent rules will also result in a ban.
Lakewood Observer is not responsible for messages posted on the Lakewood Observer Boards or the content therein. Unless expressly stated otherwise, this includes messages posted by Lakewood Observer personnel, agents, representatives et al. Lakewood Observer reserves the right to reveal the identity of or whatever information we know about any user in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by said user.
Flaming, Bashing, Trolling, and Spam
While it’s okay to have disagreements in discussions, name calling or other personal attacks will not be tolerated and could result in a ban if reported. Trolling is defined as posting anything specifically designed to attract a negative reaction from an individual or group. Not all negative opinions are automatically considered trolling, but positive discussions are encouraged. Advertising or excessive spamming or bumping of any thread is not permitted, and could result in a ban if reported. Everyone is trying to drive their post counts up, and active contributions to discussion will always be welcomed. Determination of flaming, trolling, and spam posts will be made at the discretion of mods.
Profanity
Use of profanity as personal expression, in pictures, or in text, is allowed on the Lakewood Observer boards. However, any profanity used will be subject to guidelines. Racial slurs or Hate Speech are not allowed and any person caught using them could be banned if reported. Explicitly sexual or profane descriptions and writing are not allowed. (The Lakewood Observer Boards are not your own personal Penthouse forums.) Profanity directed in an attack against another user is subject to the same considerations as flaming and trolling (see above).
Signatures
Signatures are subjected to all board rules that a post or thread would be.
Off-Topic Posts
Off-topic posts will be deleted or moved to the appropriate board. Excessively posting off topic content or hijacking and driving a discussion off topic could result in a warning or ban.
Piracy, ROMS, and Copyrighted Material
Users agree not to post any material that is protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right without the express permission of the owner(s) of said copyright, trademark or other proprietary right. Any content from outside locations is permitted as long as it abides by their (and our) permissions.
Impersonating Other Users & Posting Users Information
You may not impersonate another board member or create an account specifically for the purpose of provoking another user or group of users.
Revealing users' personal information (without their consent) will result in your account being banned.
Hacking, Scripting, and Altering Board Code
Altering or changing Lakewood Observer code and/or exploiting code bugs for purposes other than what the message boards were intended to do is prohibited. On a similar note, using automatic scripts on any part of Lakewood Observer is also not permitted. Accessing or using someone else's account is strictly prohibited. These actions are grounds for an immediate and permanent ban. You are responsible for securing your account and for any content your name has posted unless there is IP proof that another user has maliciously used your account. In this case you will need to create a new account for security reasons.
Bans
Ban times will be discussed in person with one of the moderators. Bans are private matters and are NOT discussed publicly. We only will discuss the nature, reason, and length of a ban with the user banned. If you log onto the Lakewood Observer message boards and receive a message that you have been banned, please note the reason and time and wait for the ban to end. Or if you believe the ban is in error, please send a PM to a moderator and he or she will assist you from there. Your ban will then go through a review process and you will be notified within 14 days of the review's outcome. It is standard practice on Lakewood Observer to increase ban times for repeat offenders. Taking any action while banned other than privately disputing a ban claim (including posting/liking/messaging other users) on an alternate user name is not permitted, and will result in an extension of the current ban.
Questionable Content
Since we can't have a rule to cover everything, this is the rule to, well, cover everything. These are public boards, so act like you would if you were in a public place. (A nice place!) These issues are left to the discretion of individual moderators, but may include any material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, misleading, spammy, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, sexist, obscene, racist, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, that otherwise violates any law, or that encourages conduct constituting a criminal offense. Asking for or offering any of the material listed above is also out not permitted.
There are hundreds of of posts each day on the Lakewood Observer message boards, so we can't always promise you'll receive a warning every time action has to be taken. By registering at the Lakewood Observer Message Boards, users agree that any post deemed inappropriate may be removed at the sole discretion of Lakewood Observer.
...........
Personally, I was looking at keeping the project the same. But it would seem 12 years is a good run for good behavior with very few limitations. The Observer group that started this project had hoped the level of discourse would be high enough using real names, sadly that has not happened. So we look to a potential version 2
Opinions?
I appreciate the work that went into these new proposed rules. But rules require monitoring and enforcement. This is a volunteer project with limited manpower.
I need simpler guidelines and I’m a sucker for acronyms so here’s a first attempt at honoring the project.
O wn your words, speak in the first person. B e on your best behavior, your reputation depends on it. S erve your community, that’s the point here. E xpect to be challenged, it’s how we grow. R efer to others by their proper name or title only, it’s the civil way to engage. V et others’ posts for accuracy, it helps us get to the truth. E xercise your freedom to express yourself, it keeps things interesting. R eference direct quotes only, never speak for others unless given permission to do so.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:56 am
by Stan Austin
I think Meg's got it and, in a very Observer friendly way!
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:40 am
by Dan Alaimo
Meg Ostrowski wrote:
Jim O'Bryan wrote:Over the past couple weeks we have watched the heat of rhetoric climb to what some thought were dangerous levels. "Dangerous" is when we start to worry. As I mentioned we put together a volunteer advisory board, to look at new ways for the Deck and Observer to interact with the community. As witnessed by Missy's latest posting, no one should ever be afraid to post on the Deck.
The rule the Deck has been under since day one.
You agree not to post any abusive, obscene, vulgar, slanderous, hateful, threatening, sexually-orientated or any other material that may violate any laws be it of your country, the country where “The Observation Deck” is hosted or International Law. Doing so may lead to you being immediately and permanently banned, with notification of your Internet Service Provider if deemed required by us. The IP address of all posts are recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. You agree that “The Observation Deck” have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic at any time should we see fit. As a user you agree to any information you have entered to being stored in a database. While this information will not be disclosed to any third party without your consent, neither “The Observation Deck” nor phpBB shall be held responsible for any hacking attempt that may lead to the data being compromised.
Potential New Rules
By registering at the Lakewood Observer Message Boards, users agree that any post deemed inappropriate may be removed at the sole discretion of the Lakewood Observer. Lakewood Observer also has the right, at its sole discretion, to revoke board privileges at any time without notice or reason. In simple terms: if you break the rules, you can be banned. Exploiting loopholes to circumvent rules will also result in a ban.
Lakewood Observer is not responsible for messages posted on the Lakewood Observer Boards or the content therein. Unless expressly stated otherwise, this includes messages posted by Lakewood Observer personnel, agents, representatives et al. Lakewood Observer reserves the right to reveal the identity of or whatever information we know about any user in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by said user.
Flaming, Bashing, Trolling, and Spam
While it’s okay to have disagreements in discussions, name calling or other personal attacks will not be tolerated and could result in a ban if reported. Trolling is defined as posting anything specifically designed to attract a negative reaction from an individual or group. Not all negative opinions are automatically considered trolling, but positive discussions are encouraged. Advertising or excessive spamming or bumping of any thread is not permitted, and could result in a ban if reported. Everyone is trying to drive their post counts up, and active contributions to discussion will always be welcomed. Determination of flaming, trolling, and spam posts will be made at the discretion of mods.
Profanity
Use of profanity as personal expression, in pictures, or in text, is allowed on the Lakewood Observer boards. However, any profanity used will be subject to guidelines. Racial slurs or Hate Speech are not allowed and any person caught using them could be banned if reported. Explicitly sexual or profane descriptions and writing are not allowed. (The Lakewood Observer Boards are not your own personal Penthouse forums.) Profanity directed in an attack against another user is subject to the same considerations as flaming and trolling (see above).
Signatures
Signatures are subjected to all board rules that a post or thread would be.
Off-Topic Posts
Off-topic posts will be deleted or moved to the appropriate board. Excessively posting off topic content or hijacking and driving a discussion off topic could result in a warning or ban.
Piracy, ROMS, and Copyrighted Material
Users agree not to post any material that is protected by copyright, trademark or other proprietary right without the express permission of the owner(s) of said copyright, trademark or other proprietary right. Any content from outside locations is permitted as long as it abides by their (and our) permissions.
Impersonating Other Users & Posting Users Information
You may not impersonate another board member or create an account specifically for the purpose of provoking another user or group of users.
Revealing users' personal information (without their consent) will result in your account being banned.
Hacking, Scripting, and Altering Board Code
Altering or changing Lakewood Observer code and/or exploiting code bugs for purposes other than what the message boards were intended to do is prohibited. On a similar note, using automatic scripts on any part of Lakewood Observer is also not permitted. Accessing or using someone else's account is strictly prohibited. These actions are grounds for an immediate and permanent ban. You are responsible for securing your account and for any content your name has posted unless there is IP proof that another user has maliciously used your account. In this case you will need to create a new account for security reasons.
Bans
Ban times will be discussed in person with one of the moderators. Bans are private matters and are NOT discussed publicly. We only will discuss the nature, reason, and length of a ban with the user banned. If you log onto the Lakewood Observer message boards and receive a message that you have been banned, please note the reason and time and wait for the ban to end. Or if you believe the ban is in error, please send a PM to a moderator and he or she will assist you from there. Your ban will then go through a review process and you will be notified within 14 days of the review's outcome. It is standard practice on Lakewood Observer to increase ban times for repeat offenders. Taking any action while banned other than privately disputing a ban claim (including posting/liking/messaging other users) on an alternate user name is not permitted, and will result in an extension of the current ban.
Questionable Content
Since we can't have a rule to cover everything, this is the rule to, well, cover everything. These are public boards, so act like you would if you were in a public place. (A nice place!) These issues are left to the discretion of individual moderators, but may include any material that is knowingly false and/or defamatory, misleading, spammy, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, sexist, obscene, racist, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, that otherwise violates any law, or that encourages conduct constituting a criminal offense. Asking for or offering any of the material listed above is also out not permitted.
There are hundreds of of posts each day on the Lakewood Observer message boards, so we can't always promise you'll receive a warning every time action has to be taken. By registering at the Lakewood Observer Message Boards, users agree that any post deemed inappropriate may be removed at the sole discretion of Lakewood Observer.
...........
Personally, I was looking at keeping the project the same. But it would seem 12 years is a good run for good behavior with very few limitations. The Observer group that started this project had hoped the level of discourse would be high enough using real names, sadly that has not happened. So we look to a potential version 2
Opinions?
I appreciate the work that went into these new proposed rules. But rules require monitoring and enforcement. This is a volunteer project with limited manpower.
I need simpler guidelines and I’m a sucker for acronyms so here’s a first attempt at honoring the project.
O wn your words, speak in the first person. B e on your best behavior, your reputation depends on it. S erve your community, that’s the point here. E xpect to be challenged, it’s how we grow. R efer to others by their proper name or title only, it’s the civil way to engage. V et others’ posts for accuracy, it helps us get to the truth. E xercise your freedom to express yourself, it keeps things interesting. R eference direct quotes only, never speak for others unless given permission to do so.
This is very good, Meg. I think there is room and a need for both. You guidelines are short and sweet enough that they can be promoted and reiterated easily. I think there's a need for the longer more specific version when the time comes to deal with difficult situations as they come up. No one has the time to monitor every item, but they provide something to fall back on when someone commits a particularly egregious offense. It's happened recently and will happen again.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:11 pm
by Jim Kenny
[quote="Michael Deneen"]People like Jen Pae and Jim Kenny stopped posting here because they got called out on their numerous lies and misleading statements.
[/quote]
Mr. Deneen: Once again, you've made a claim with checking if it was a fact. Please know the fact is I stopped posting on the Deck because the conversations have become mostly uncivilized. And when this happens, the difference between an indisputable fact and a mere observation become marginalized.
I responded today only because I do share JOB's desire that the Deck be saved. I only fear his efforts are too late, as I suspect he's now left with only those last to leave a sinking ship.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:16 pm
by Jim Kenny
Meg: I like how you've defined Observer. Can I offer one suggestion on the second "R":
R espect and don't abuse the power inherent to quoting others; never speak for others unless given permission to do so.
This thread offers testament to need to revise. Thanks, jim
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:47 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
Jim Kenny wrote:This thread offers testament to need to revise. Thanks, jim
Jim
As you are a newby...
The Observer is in a complete state of flux, always. There is always room to make it better, and look at new things.
Nothing is set in stone.
DL Meckes, our founding tech person did things her way, and was open to suggestions from others. When she stepped down we found Jim DeVito, who at the time, thought like many, "You must drink the koolaid..." which is idiotic. As a person that was not a fan of the Observer, he was given the keys to the kingdom, and found out, there was no group speak, no group think, no agenda, and could do what he thought was right. Recently Raul took over some of the aspects. His background? Tech person I never knew before, but proved himself on the Tech side. To this day I have no idea what party he is affiliated with, what church, what groups, nothing he was given the reigns to improve.
The Observer is always a work in progress.
It is far more powerful as a community assessment tool, than a newspaper, than a discussion board, than most other things people think it is.
Thanks for taking the time to weigh in and take part.
.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 12:52 pm
by Michael Deneen
Jim Kenny wrote:Mr. Deneen: Once again, you've made a claim with checking if it was a fact. Please know the fact is I stopped posting on the Deck because the conversations have become mostly uncivilized. And when this happens, the difference between an indisputable fact and a mere observation become marginalized.
CIty Hall's notion of "uncivilized" is when lies and distortions are pointed out.
"Civilized discussion" to them is when folks sit back and absorb talking points without interruption or questions.
That's why the anti-Hospital folks fled to "controlled" media outlets like Lakewood Citizen, Lakewood Neighborhood News, and the fake Lakewood Community Facebook page.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 1:51 pm
by Bridget Conant
I only fear his efforts are too late, as I suspect he's now left with only those last to leave a sinking ship.
There we go again - insinuate the Deck is dead, people are leaving, (insert wringing hands and tears.)
You WISH. There are people that would like nothing better than the Deck, and for that matter, the Observer, to disappear. Then they'd have free reign to control the message.
Insinuating the Deck is dying is a typical ploy of desperation.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:07 pm
by cmager
Bridget Conant wrote:
Jim Kenny wrote:I only fear his efforts are too late, as I suspect he's now left with only those last to leave a sinking ship.
There we go again - insinuate the Deck is dead, people are leaving, (insert wringing hands and tears.) You WISH. There are people that would like nothing better than the Deck, and for that matter, the Observer, to disappear. Then they'd have free reign to control the message. Insinuating the Deck is dying is a typical ploy of desperation.
That's the narrative and that's the goal. Discredit and weaken The Deck ahead of the referendum:
1. Threaten The Deck with legal actions, into a defensive posture.
2. Trash The Deck with trolls and bullies so that one can declare that "The Deck is full of crazy."
3. Distract from good information and discourage from good postings so that the casual observer looks elsewhere.
4. Declare (over and over) that The Deck is lost, dead, losing people. Hold out hope that The Deck can be saved. Clutch pearls.
Boom. You see the strategy and tactics in action, you see it played out, here.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:11 pm
by Jim O'Bryan
I always find it touching when people that have never cared, suddenly care.
Maybe they have found out, it is good for them, and everyone to have a place like this.
A fair and open discussion.
In the end...
Sing along!
Next time your found, with your chin on the ground
There a lot to be learned, so look around
Just what makes that little old ant
Think he'll move that rubber tree plant
Anyone knows an ant, can't
Move a rubber tree plant
But he's got high hopes, he's got high hopes
He's got high apple pie, in the sky hopes
So any time your gettin' low
'Stead of lettin' go
Just remember that ant
Oops there goes another rubber tree plant
When troubles call, and your back's to the wall
There a lot to be learned, that wall could fall
Once there was a silly old ram
Thought he'd punch a hole in a dam
No one could make that ram, scram
He kept buttin' that dam
'Cause he had high hopes, he had high hopes
He had high apple pie, in the sky hopes
So any time your feelin' bad
'stead of feelin' sad
Just remember that ram
Oops there goes a billion kilowatt dam
All problems just a toy balloon
They'll be bursted soon
They're just bound to go pop
Oops there goes another problem kerplop
JOB: Please know I've always cared about the health of Lakewood and those components that contribute to it. Your project was once one of these and it's my hope it returns. However, I recognize the challenge is large and possibly larger than the team you've assembled to reinvent it. How long does one need to have been registered with Deck to no longer be considered a "newby"? I joined more than nine years ago in Jan., 2007.
Please know that I speak and write here for myself, so I get confused when you and others cite what I say yet reference me as "they" and "them." I might share the opinion of others and, at times echo it, but in the end my posts represent my thinking. When you start adopting these bad habits, I'm afraid you're giving credibility to the impression that the Deck suffers from group think (your phrase, not mine).
[quote="todd vainisi"]The deck is broken and a cesspool right now so I welcome attempts to clean it up and make it a good tool for our Lakewood community again.
[/quote]
Todd Vainisi, I agree. Please know you're not desperate just because you hold a different opinion.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 3:16 pm
by Bridget Conant
Perhaps Todd was referring to recent events like vulgar profanity, something not seen here before, and a few threads that became entirely unreadable due to the back and forth, incessant replies by 1-2 people.
These events are not indicative of the entire Deck, nor are they of a longstanding nature, and you know it as well as does everyone else.
I agree with Todd that a few people and a few threads got out of control. That DOES NOT mean the Deck is doomed. In reality, the fact that we are all still here right now discussing it indicates to me that the Deck works pretty well and will survive these kamikaze attacks.
Re: New Rules For The Deck Needed?
Posted: Mon Aug 15, 2016 4:34 pm
by Gary Rice
Wait a minute!
Was that Jimmy SINGING just a few posts ago?
Whee!!!!
Maybe that Lakewood Observer sing-a-long banjo's not quite done yet.
Actually, and truth be told, it's never been even close to being done playing.
It just kinda gets squeezed to the side from time to time.
Y'all (or You'uns, if you're from Pennsylvania) remember the great late Harry Chapin?
One of the greatest singer-songwriters I've ever heard of. Oh sure, many of you know about me and Pete Seeger. Never met Harry the way I did Pete, but still, what an inspiration...
What he did for charity, for people...He walked the walk to bring people together, as I still try to do today.
That's ALL of us..The Mayor, Council, Jimmy, hospital advocates and build advocates. ALL of us!
Check this link, then try and tell me that you or anyone else can destroy a song, a hope, or a love for your community? FAT CHANCE