RTA To Construct Dedicated Bus Lines On Clifton Boulevard

[Bill Call]

I see it more like what the bus lines did for the end of Madison and Detroit twenty years ago. An end of the line destination for people to get off and look to live.

First comes the list of non-negotiable demands then comes the compromise

[Jim O'Bryan]

I see it more like what the bus lines did for the end of Madison and Detroit twenty years ago. An end of the line destination for people to get off and look to live.

First comes the list of non-negotiable demands then comes the compromise

Bill

My life saving experience might have been a life changing experience. Seems were are agreeing more and more.

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[Christopher Bindel]

Like many of you have said, after the debacle of the Euclid Corridor project I don’t want anything that is being compared to it brought to Lakewood. Although I don’t think this is going to be like that, I still don’t know if I like it. Traffic on Clifton can get bad enough the way thing are now, taking away a lane for busses would only cause more problems. I am not against busses, in fact I think they are absolutely necessary, but I think some people are under the Field of Dreams delusion of “if you build it they will come.â€￾ I think they might see some increase in ridership but it isn’t going to take the amount of cars off the road to make up the room for the bus lane. I don’t have any issues with the city looking at this with a positive light, why not, if you can get things for free, or at very low cost, look at it seriously. Provided they keep a critical eye on it and don’t accept it just because its offered. I hope that if the plans look like they will disrupt traffic and make things worse we will not accept them, if we can. Perhaps they should look at just improving the current system instead of going through this process which will no doubt include disruptive construction. I won’t say I’m absolutely against this plan yet, but I will be looking at it critically. Although if they have to put something new in Lakewood, and it was feasible, I do like the idea of a light rail rapid, whether under ground or down the current train corridor in Lakewood. However I being realistic I know this will never happen. For one it is far to costly and second, if they were to try and fit it in the current corridor I do not think there is the room, nor do I think the rail road that owns the land would work with RTA to build it.

On a slight side note, does it bother any one else that within a year of announcing finical constrictions and the cutting of bus routs that RTA suddenly wants to spend more money and expand? I know this is different money from a different source, but perhaps they should see if they could get some money to keep some of those closed lines open.

[Bill Grulich]

This is what Clifton Boulevard looked like with the Lake Shore Electric Interurban. This is from "Cleveland Memories".

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cgi-bin/ ... SOPTR=1328




Too bad RTA isn't proposing something similar.

Bill Grulich

[Bill Grulich]

Here is another photograph from "Cleveland Memories".

http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cgi-bin/ ... CISOPTR=88

[Jim O'Bryan]

Like many of you have said, after the debacle of the Euclid Corridor project

Christopher

What was the debacle. Gentrification on the highest order for the new regionalism.

Tear up a street take so long everyone goes out of business, and you can scoop up the property for pennies on the dollars, and move in your new soulless Sim City.

Only a debacle for those that lost everything, while the city fed the regional machine of gentrification.

As one Lakewood civic leader once said very loudly at a public meeting. "Don't you understand people with more money want to move into there!"

More like build it and they will starve and move.

Maybe it will take the masses to work in Youngstown on the CLE+ line. Get your FREE CLE+ stickers at the Lakewood Chamber of Commerce or LakewoodAlive offices today! Serving Lakewood, like a stuffed turkey to the rest of the region for pennies on the dollar!

.

[Bill Call]

As one Lakewood civic leader once said very loudly at a public meeting. "Don't you understand people with more money want to move into there!"

Any civic leader worth his salt wants the people with money to live in his own community. If Lakewood's wealth rank was were it was 20 years ago current income tax revenues would be substantially higher than they are today.

This project has all the ingredients of a great food fight.

Well meaning people will have different visions of what type of Clifton Avenue is good for the City. On one hand are those whose primary concern is the ease of commute. Anything that adds to commute time is bad.

On the other hand there are people like me who think Clifton Boulevard can be home to hundreds of new apartments and condos that would appeal to people with money, aka, the people who pay the bills.

That means I think anything that adds to commute times is a good thing. If that is too much for the residents of Rocky River and Bay Village to put up with they can take I-90.

At a minimum we should demand the restoration of Clifton Park. No Park No Peace!! No Park No Peace!! What ever happened to my tie dyed shirt anyway?

[Jim O'Bryan]

Bill

Completely different item. Taking YOUR home through eminent domain, so that a person that is perceived as wealthier(actual numbers for condos were less) that some of the homes that were being grabbed.

Bill, you have a nice home. I can buy it and make it worth more with very little effort. You know this turning homes is your hobby. You have told me how little you have spent to make more $$$$$$$. So the theory is either flawed or we create a city that might as well be called "Donnerville."



Possible Donnerville Sign*

I generally feel that it is hard to get people to invest in a city when others are so quick to wave tax returns at public meetings saying, "You cannot afford to live there I have your tax records" actual quote from the Lombardo meeting. If we are to look upon our neighbors as Burgers and Drumsticks like in a cartoon of starving people. Most would pass on that action.

The biggest money for the least amount of work and effort is along the Lake with high rises. Still as most that are on such committees live along the lake it is rarely even looked at. I would say, that a proper line would be great ending at Clifton Beach, for the city to enjoy. Another way to crank up values is beach access for the city. Another subject rarely looked at though "public parks" are legal use of eminent domain. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm? I have to think it would be easier to sell homes and rent them with "Beach Access!"" Go north than just take the Windemere Rapid Line west to Clifton Beach and head north about 1,000'."

* For those unfamiliar with the Donner metaphor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donner_Party



.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
So. will this be the full rebuild of Clifton Blvd. that has been on the books for a while now? I've been reading through all this discussion and I can't tell. Will sewers be rebuilt? Would it be possible to put overhead lines underground? Or is this just a cosmetic thing?

Would Lakewood better utilize that space of that bus lane by making it a bike lane?

Would this bus lane replace all those other large RTA buses that now drive up and down other streets in Lakewood? Would this be the exclusive bus route for the big RTA buses? Then the little commuter bus would be used to travel elsewhere in Lakewood.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
Sorry for all the questions, but I'm trying to understand to reasoning for this Bus line installation:

If the line ends at the west end of Lakewood on Clifton, will there be a newly created RTA parking lot at the end of the line for the extraburb people to park? Will Clifton Park soon feature a RTA parking lot? Running this along Clifton to serve Lakewood bus riders could make sense (any info on how many Lakewoodites ride the bus into Cleveland daily?). Should it be ending south by I90 so those extraburb drivers can jump off and park there?

[Stan Austin]

Don--- In answer to your questions:

yes, no, yes, maybe, not at all, and possibly.

Stan

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
Doesn't the RTA have a beautiful new station at W117th for extraburb commuters to park and jump on the Rapid? Any idea if anyone does?

The development of this bus line confuses me.

[Donald Farris]

Hi,
Thanks Stan!

[Christopher Bindel]

Jim said:

What was the debacle. Gentrification on the highest order for the new regionalism.

Tear up a street take so long everyone goes out of business, and you can scoop up the property for pennies on the dollars, and move in your new soulless Sim City.

Only a debacle for those that lost everything, while the city fed the regional machine of gentrification.

As one Lakewood civic leader once said very loudly at a public meeting. "Don't you understand people with more money want to move into there!"

More like build it and they will starve and move.

Maybe it will take the masses to work in Youngstown on the CLE+ line. Get your FREE CLE+ stickers at the Lakewood Chamber of Commerce or LakewoodAlive offices today! Serving Lakewood, like a stuffed turkey to the rest of the region for pennies on the dollar!

Jim,

Although I lacked the theatrics, you hit my point on the head.

Bill,

I don’t disagree that bringing in more money would be a good thing; however I disagree with your tactics. Should we have to change who we are as a city to do it? Tearing down nice older buildings to be replaced with trendy new ones in the name of attracting a younger, hipper, wealthier crowed is not the way to go. Its wasteful, messy, uneconomical and isn’t what this city should be about, just for the sake of money. Now if you were for renovating some of those nice apartment buildings into condos that would be one thing. Oh, and that brings me to another point. Who would be buying all these new fancy condos? Last time I checked the housing market wasn’t doing so well for sellers.

[Bill Call]

Completely different item. Taking YOUR home through eminent domain, so that a person that is perceived as wealthier(actual numbers for condos were less) that some of the homes that were being grabbed.

Take a drive down Clifton and note the fine homes. Then note the four suiters with pealing paint, overgrown landscaping, gravel driveways, a moldy mildewed look and the sign out front: 440 for rent.

I use to think that the popping of the real estate bubble would offer Lakewood a 3 or 4 year window of opportunity. I know longer think so. We don't have the luxury of time.