Lakewood Arts Festival -- No Dogs Allowed

Todd Shapiro · Post by **Todd Shapiro** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 1:45 pm

So now Lakewood isn't "family-friendly" because dogs aren't allowed in parks and festivals. Well Lakewood is in good company then because McDonald's, your local house of worship, the Lakewood Public Library and the Cleveland Museum of Art don't allow dogs to run around either.
I am sure some people "love" their pets, BUT according to my dictonary a dog isn't a person therefore its not family.
Some people love their motorcycles too! Should they be allowed to race through the arts festival and do wheelies around the soccer players at Madison Park because they think their Harley is part of the family.

The bright side of this summer of "animal intolerence" is, everything in Lakewood must be getting alot better. All of the problems we debated on the Deck last year have been replaced by "The Year of the Dog!"

stephen davis · Post by **stephen davis** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:04 pm

Missy Limkemann wrote:...I saw lots of dogs all over the place.

I was at the Art Festival for about 2 hours. I saw one dog. The owner was being talked to (scolded?) by a policeman.

.

Ed Dickson · Post by **Ed Dickson** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:06 pm

Jeff,

I'm not making light of the fact you got bit at all but to refute something you said, if the dog bit you, it wasn't under control. It's the owners responsibility to know the animal well enough before being put into a situation where something may happen. It's about knowing your dog and reading behavior.

Again, sorry about the bite.

Ed

Jeff Dreger · Post by **Jeff Dreger** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:22 pm

Ed,
Thanks, but with all due respect, there was no behavior to read... not by the owner or by me - it was, as I indicated, completely without any warning of any kind (no movement, no growling, absolutely nothing). I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "knowing your dog"... this owner certainly thought she knew her dog. And this was not a new/different situation/location for this dog. She was walking him as she did every day and I was walking by as I often did (and as others often did) and it just happened. I've heard plenty of news stories about "experts/professionals" that were "in control" and "knew the animal" and "read its behaviour" and still ended up dead or in the hospital. To believe that an animal won't ever surpirse you is not reasonable.

Ed Dickson · Post by **Ed Dickson** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:43 pm

If you don't know what I mean by "reading your dog" then you can't say there was no warning. Dogs warn in many ways and they ALWAYS give something unless it's been supressed through fear tactics. The problem is most people only think of a warning as a growl or teeth. It's much more complex than that. If a dog has reached the state of a growl, you've already missed about 6 to 12 other stress signals. They need to growl either. They can lash out with other signals given. These are the bites that get reported as "unprovoked".

You don't have to agree with me but it's what I do for a living. I'm not trying to argue with you or be combative either. just sharing what I know. That's all.

Ed

Valerie Molinski · Post by **Valerie Molinski** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 2:47 pm

Todd Shapiro wrote:So now Lakewood isn't "family-friendly" because dogs aren't allowed in parks and festivals. Well Lakewood is in good company then because McDonald's, your local house of worship, the Lakewood Public Library and the Cleveland Museum of Art don't allow dogs to run around either.
I am sure some people "love" their pets, BUT according to my dictonary a dog isn't a person therefore its not family.
Some people love their motorcycles too! Should they be allowed to race through the arts festival and do wheelies around the soccer players at Madison Park because they think their Harley is part of the family.

The bright side of this summer of "animal intolerence" is, everything in Lakewood must be getting alot better. All of the problems we debated on the Deck last year have been replaced by "The Year of the Dog!"

Aw, come on now. You're exagerrating just a wee bit. Within reason would I assume my dog would be accepted. Like, say, a park, an outdoor festival.... I wouldnt expect my dog to be allowed INSIDE a restaurant or a library... unless she was a service dog.

My dog is a dog too... but she is part of my family. I wish she could join us in more outside places in this town, but she isnt welcome. Like movies in the park, sitting on our blanket, fully leashed and under control.

Lakewood isnt a dog friendly town, it just isnt. I didnt realize to what extent until I moved here.

Todd Shapiro · Post by **Todd Shapiro** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 3:37 pm

Valerie,

Your right! I was goign just wee bit over the top with my first post. I have never been a dog owner so I don't know if Lakewood is a dog friendly city or not. But I will trust your assertion that Lakewood is not that dog friendly, HOWEVER that is alot different then your earlier post where you stated "Lakewood is not family friendly" I think we both exagerated just a wee bit didn't we

Jeff Dreger · Post by **Jeff Dreger** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 4:47 pm

Ed,
I'll take your word for it if this is what you do for a living... but if one has to go through extensive "dog whisperer" type of training in order to be a responsible owner (and be able to "read" their dog), then I'm guessing that 99% of the dog owners out there don't meet this high standard. My father and father-in-law, both long time dog owners, could offer no insight as you apparently would be able to. This bite was as unprovoked as they come. Again, you said yourself that most people only think of growling or teeth and that it's "much more complex than that". I wouldn't know, but folks that I would consider responsible owners and in control of their dogs apparently aren't aware of the complexities either. Perhaps it wasn't your intention, but this description of just how educated and attentive owners have to be in order to prevent something like this actually has me more concerned than ever. And I was worried when I though keeping an eye on your dog was a simple, straightforward thing.

Ed Dickson · Post by **Ed Dickson** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 5:17 pm

Jeff,

Your response pointed out that my post was a bit incomplete. I should have finished with reading a dog is a complexity yet with the resources available today people have no excuse not to understand if they own a dog. Books, DVD's, training classes and schools, etc. It's just a small amount of education to get to where the average pet owner needs to be.

FWIW
Ed

Jeff Dreger · Post by **Jeff Dreger** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:34 pm

Ed,
Can you recommend any specific books, DVDs, websites, etc.? I would find it very useful to have a better understanding of when I might be in trouble. My father and father-in-law have about 70 years of combined dog ownership and even they weren't sure. I'm also a bit curious about how a "small amount of education" is adequate for something that's "much more complex". Not trying to be combative, but up to this point I've not heard anything like this from the dog owners I've told my story to. Having been attacked, I would honestly like to understand this better if possible.
Thanks,
Jeff

Hope Robbins · Post by **Hope Robbins** » Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:11 pm

we all know my position on dogs, I am not a great fan of dogs in places like the Art festival.....too small, to close, too many people...children who are not taught how to act around a dog....expensive property....nope my dog isn't a go at something that close together and that many people.

The parks...another issue...I pay for it....to keep it up,,,,can't take my dog....well can't take her to the dog park either.......

Dogs on a leash, a must always...I don't care if it's a Tea Cup Poodle or a Great Dane.....too much room for error....sorry I'd rather be responsible and safe....and keep my dog and lawsuit free.

Ed,
you are right...doesn't take much to know the signals.
And btw ....Ceasar's courses are not long or intensive either.....unless they or THEIR OWNERS have intense issues.

Jeff Dreger · Post by **Jeff Dreger** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:52 am

Would anyone - mainly dog owners of course - be able to provide me with some examples of specific behaviors to look for or what exactly to read or types or warning signs or whatever. I'm sincerely curious about this since it was not suggested before that I or the dog owner should have noticed some simple signal from the animal that we did not. I consider myself to be reasonably intelligent and attentive and the dog did not behave in any way differently the day it attacked me than in all the other days. I personally am still surprised by people's behavior, even people I know very well. I admit to being suspicious that even the best pet owner can't ever be surprised by their animal like this.

Ed Dickson · Post by **Ed Dickson** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 7:11 am

Well, can't say that I am a fan of Cesar but that's for another thread.

Jeff,

Give me a bit and I'll put together some great resources for you and post them here. I am more than happy to make some suggestionos on obtaining this info.

Ed

Valerie Molinski · Post by **Valerie Molinski** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 8:05 am

Hope Robbins wrote:we all know my position on dogs, I am not a great fan of dogs in places like the Art festival.....too small, to close, too many people...children who are not taught how to act around a dog....expensive property....nope my dog isn't a go at something that close together and that many people.

The parks...another issue...I pay for it....to keep it up,,,,can't take my dog....well can't take her to the dog park either.......

Oh I agree. I would love to have my dog with me but I wouldnt take her to the arts festival for the very reasons you describe. The parks on the other hand, well... I've already posted extensively about it. The arts festival is very densely packed full of people and displays.

You can all forgive me for my zeal, I am sure. I moved here from a city where dogs were allowed in all the parks, had designated off leash areas, were allowed to sit outside at many restaurants with you, came into Home Depot with you...not that I ever brought my dog to Home Depot. I was too busy carrying lumber and drywall, but you could if you wanted to.

Shawn Juris · Post by **Shawn Juris** » Sat Aug 09, 2008 10:35 am

Good thread. I like the reasoning and effort for understanding so far. And frankly any thread that I agree with Hope on a dog issue must be a good one.
On the aspect of dogs at the Arts Festival or them being prohibited, the point about the police being the only ones enforcing it seemed right on. I was there from start to finish at the corner of Detroit and Warren and saw some dogs in the festival, not many but there were some that snuck through. I also saw the officers at the corner stopping a good number of mostly the larger dogs. I took this to be that these were the dogs that were easier to spot and they could only stop so many between directing traffic, stopping repeat offenders of the no bicycle riding in the area and a random smart mouthed skater. Crowd control for the 8 hour day had to be taxing on those Officers and Auxillary. From watching just a handful of the things that they were dealing with, I certainly didn't envy their position. Patrolling these kinds of rules must feel like an impossible task. It's one thing to card at the door of a bar, but to monitor thousands of people who are not entering through the same place, now that's a challenge.