The Observation Deck

I would use another analogy than arson. Big-game fishing.
The state rep from Cleveland tossed out some bait and now can mount Mr Call on her office wall.

As for the other numbers involved, I am standing by my personal promise to not make any arguments in favor of the schools that school personnel wont make themselves. Teachers, school board members, and others can refute the claims Mr Call makes. If they dont, let the public believe these statistics are right. Im keeping my lip zipped.

Dee Martinez wrote:I would use another analogy than arson. Big-game fishing.
The state rep from Cleveland tossed out some bait and now can mount Mr Call on her office wall.

As for the other numbers involved, I am standing by my personal promise to not make any arguments in favor of the schools that school personnel wont make themselves. Teachers, school board members, and others can refute the claims Mr Call makes. If they dont, let the public believe these statistics are right. Im keeping my lip zipped.

Dee

I think Bill will and has in the past go with my arson analogy. Bill and I both use it. Sometimes to great effect. When you burn the bushes, you never knows what will run out. It is the lazy way to get information. If you are not sure of the figure, say something outrageous, high or lower than you think it should be, and some poor snipe will blurt out the answer to prove us wrong.

Bill is a very good man, and his heart is solid in Lakewood. He is gold to this city. I like his style, when I am on his side

The teachers received a 3% raise in this contract. So that number is correct. But that is on top of the 4% staircase raises already in effect, which gives Bill his 7% number. This is the problems with numbers and "facts." Both Sean and Bill are correct.

I do think what this city needs more than anything is someone to help Bill get a better contract so that he is not always trying to rewrite other people's contracts. My thought always is, this was negotiated either by smart people, or lucky people. Going back on a contract with a do over, while needed just makes me think of broken contracts, dreams, lives, whatever. I have seen many friends parents live go down the tube as thee contract they signed decades earlier is renegotiated, to cut out what they worked so hard for.

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I started to explain the fact that not all teachers get the "step" increases, but I caught myself and hit the "delete" button. Recovery IS possible.
Mr Calls comments about the schools needing a $15 million ANNUAL increase are erroneous too, but I will let others explain it.

No one officially involved with the schools has effectively used this or any other forum to explain school finance issues to the public.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:
As you have been lauded by suzanne as the fountain of integrity. I think we both have to admit, that 14% is not 15% so where did that number come from, or were you grandstanding as you accuse the politicians of?

If the average teacher salary and pension is $70,000 per year the first 7% raise on September 1st, 2008 increases the compensation to $74,900 and the second 7% increase brings the compensation to $80,143 on September 1, 2009.

If your compensation increased from $70,000 in 2008 to $80,143 in 2009 would you say that you received a 3% raise?

The actual percentage increase in compensation is 14.49 % . Admitedly not 15% but a lot closer to 15% than the 3% reported in the paper.

Dee: The tax increases necessary to fund these raises and are going to be $15 million per year (my estimate). If anyone has a better estimate they can post the info.

Bill Call wrote:If the average teacher salary and pension is $70,000 per year...

Is the average Lakewood teacher's salary $70,000/year?

Bryan

You have to first understand how Bill comes up with his figures. If you or I get a paycheck every 2 weeks with a gross of 1,000.00, you would say, if asked how much you make, "26,000.00 per year".

BUT, you'd be wrong.

Bill always looks at the COST to the employer.....not the wage received by the employee.

So, to your 26K, to get your true "salary", you need to add:
Social Security paid by your employer: 1989.00
Portion of medical benefits @ 75 % 2700.00
401K matching @ 5% 1300.00
Share of FUTA, Unemployment,
Workers Comp 600.00

So, while our worker has a salary of 26K, the costs to the employer for him are actually 32,589.00
It's more inflamatory to use the highest possible number! It's probably not wrong, but not many of us lokk at what it costs our employers when we figure out how much we make. We usually look at our pay check.

Jeff

Jeff Endress wrote:It's probably not wrong, but not many of us lokk at what it costs our employers when we figure out how much we make. We usually look at our pay check.

Jeff

But technically it would be wrong if Bill is doing that in his example saying there's a 7% raise which would only apply to base salary not the entire "cost to the employer".

I completely agree with the administrators in this news release. Volunteerism at your child's school is important. If only for a very selfish reason. You get to know the school and if your child is having problems you get to hear about it quickly. You learn the ropes and who to talk to at the school.

And an added benefit it helps all of us in Lakewood. When the PTA raises money for Gym Equipment or the Music Boosters raises money for instruments or music or the Athletic Boosters raises money for some type of athletic equipment everyone benefits.

Volunteerism should be encouraged. In some cases it can be incentivized. Private and Parochial schools do this all the time.

Maybe so many hours of service from a parent allows them to get a reduction on Pay to Play. Maybe we should even have a volunteer coordinator here in Lakewood (a volunteer position) who matches skills with needs. In fact - Jim, DL, couldn't you put a place where people could volunteer here in Lakewood on the site so that people with time and the desire could match their skills with the needs in Lakewood?

But I agree with Bill and the representatives, It should not be mandated. No one knows the shoes in which others walk. They may be struggling with multiple jobs, elderly parents, handicapped relatives. They may already be voluteering with other very worthwhile groups. Or they may not have had a good experience in school and the last thing they want to do is go back there.

So, yes, encourage volunteerism, make it easy, make it fun, incentize it if you want - but don't mandate it.

Lynn-

There's always been a place on the Deck to ask for volunteers. It is rarely used.

Perhaps this is better served on LakewoodCares.com...

Lynn-

There's always been a place on the Deck to ask for volunteers. It is rarely used.



Perhaps this is better served on http://LakewoodCares.com...

You are right.

It does seem that people only use the first 4 categories with the first 2 getting the most use. I wonder if this is a normal situation that we are experiencing - or most sites have the same issues.

Thanks,

Lynn

The beginning, middle and end problem with this entire thread is that the news story had NOTHING to do with Lakewood. It was a story about Cleveland that BIll decided to make about Lakewood.

IMHO Lakewood has enough going on to add in bulls**t from someplace else.

I tried my best to stay out of this but it really chaps my ---.

How in the world is this thread helpful???????

Diane Helbig wrote:How in the world is this thread helpful???????

I got to plug the Volunteer area & http://LakewoodCares.com ?

Lynn Farris wrote:You are right.

It does seem that people only use the first 4 categories with the first 2 getting the most use. I wonder if this is a normal situation that we are experiencing - or most sites have the same issues.

Thanks,

Lynn

I think it's pretty normal, but we didn't know that when we were starting!

dl meckes wrote:

Diane Helbig wrote:How in the world is this thread helpful???????

I got to plug the Volunteer area & http://LakewoodCares.com ?

well . . . there is that.