The Observation Deck

The $70,000, as I stated in my post, is total compensation. The $60,000 is average salary. Of the 400+ teachers, very few make under $45,000 unless they are part time. And even then, there are few. Teachers are gauranteed between 4 & 6% raises every year. This is in addition to other pay increase targets they meet just by completing years worked for the system, continued education, mentoring a new teacher and many other items. Most average over 5% for the first 18 years of service. Not bad. It is in their contract that they are limited to 5 hours of student contact (including after school tutoring, meetings with parents, etc.) or they get paid overtime. 184 day work schedule is in the contract also. So is 7.5 hour work day. If they all do work more than those limits, why did they insist on it being in their contract? SRTS requires the Board pay 14%. But we also pay, on top of that, the "pick-up" portion, benefiting the teacher. Administrators get 23% or 24% depending on their certification. That's 9 or 10% more than required. Private sector typically gets 50% match up to 6%, or a total of 3%. Social Security - we are taxed for that. So their retirement is much better than average. And health care is basically paid 100% single and 95% family coverage, compared to 15% and 27% respectively in the private sector. It's all in my report.

The cost of educating our children in Lakewood is 80% wages, pension and health care. In other words, as those items increase in percent, our revenue must increase the same percent in order to balance the budget. Revenue is directly tied to Real Estate value, which has only appreciated an average of 2.5% over the last 5 years. But salary and pension goes up 4 to 6 %, and health care goes up 10%, you do the math. Expenses are increasing faster than revenue.

Teachers in Lakewood are more than well paid. They have new schools now, which is a big bonus. We have had proerty tax increase 3 times in the last 7 years to support education. When is it going to stop? Theroretically, we will have to have tax increases every 2 or 3 years just to keep pace. Before you know it, you have no disposable income. I guarantee you there will be a levy on the ballot next year. And it will be for 5 or 6 mil, maybe more. Your tax bill will go up $200 - $300 annually.

Only 43% of the teachers live in Lakewood. I ran into Mike Mollison, the Public Relastions Direct for the Lakewood Teachers Association (LTA). He is also a teacher. Very very nice guy. Seems very dedicated. He told me he lives in Avon Lake. I asked why. He said "The property taxes are too high in Lakewood". I couldn't believe he told me that, especially after reading my report, which I gave him at the prior meeting. It's all on record. I offered to meet with the LTA president, but she wasn't interested.

Don't mean to sound sarcastic or anything. I realize these are just my opinions and I may be dead wrong. But the citizens of Lakewood just can't afford to pay more taxes. And we can't attract new families when they can go buy a newer, bigger and more expensive home with a bigger yard a few suburbs away and pay the same amount of property taxes. Ed Fitzgerald realized this and is doing something about it, he's cutting expenses rather than raise taxes. Ohio is the 6th highest taxed state in the country (state and local income tax). Lakewood pays more millage of property tax for schools than almost every other of the 409 school districts in Ohio. The current Lakewood Teachers contract is the most lengthy, inclusive and generous contract in the state of ohio.

Any way, hope I answered some questions from several of the previous e-mails. Very good conversation. Thanks.

Oh, by the way, I felt total compensation was the best way to look at it rather than salary. Money is money, its all the same. As an example, if I make $50,000 in wages, $7,000 (14%) in pension and save $9000 (actual cost) in health care (Teacher), it would be the same as making $58,000 in wages, $1,700 (3%) in pension and save only $6,500 in health care (Private sector). I rounded some numbers in the example, its not exact.

I didn't take into consideration the summers off because I feel that is a bonus teachers deserve. You can substitue your pension number and health care.

I think compensation alone is not enough to draw quality people to teaching. Unfortunately, many believe that increasing compensation will somehow make the teachers perform better. This is not so; they are doing the best they can and looking at the quality of their work (well educated graduates) indicates that their best is not good enough. I emphasize that there are some good teachers, but they are too few, and the bulk of teachers will never be able to effectively teach.

Strangely, when I was in school, teachers were not well paid, but were almost without exception very competent, respected in the community, and produced well educated graduates. Today they are much better compensated, but less respected in the community, and produce few graduates, and those who graduate are often almost illiterate.

One problem is that teachers think the most vital part of their education is leaarning to teach, with mastery of the subject matter a secondary consideration. This has led to a closed shop, where one wanting to be a teacher attends a college of education, with subject matter courses that are almost always less rigorous than those courses in a college of science, business, or arts. Who hasn't heard the story that Bill Gates could not teach in the public schools because he lacks the courses in education, and, of course, a degree?

I'm not saying that training in education is useless, but unfortunately under our current system, it has been elevated above subject matter training, which invariable leads to teachers who struggle to keep up with their students, rather than teachers who can challenge their students.

The people I have known who have gone into education have often realized that they lack the academic talent to be competitive in their technical field, so have chosen to enroll in a college of education. I haven't looked in a few years, but I would be very surprised if the qualifications of students accepted into the colleges of education were not markedly lower than those of students admitted into other colleges.

But our schools are very much controlled by an educational organization that insists on preserving a system that doesn't work. The teachers unions have extraordinary political power and don't hesitate to use their money and supposedly superior knowledge to protect their turf.

My children graduated from the Lakewood school system, and had some excellent teachers and administrators, but also had some mediocre and even poor teachers. The schools deteriorated over the years of their attendance, and the youngest was often subjected to weak teachers, and administrators who would have difficulty walking a dog. So I would argue that teachers and administrators today are often paid more than they are worth. I suspect that in any organization where compensation is not performance based, the weak performers will stay, while the better performers will seek greater compensation elsewhere. The sad fact is that few of our physics teachers, just to choose an example, could find employment outside secondary teaching in the field of physics

In evaluating compensation, I think some consideration has to be given to the amount of work required. In this respect, I think of no other job where your summer is free, and you have generous holiday breaks. People, we are not farmers anymore, and closing the schools during Summer is a luxury we can no longer afford, especially when our students perform so poorly when compared with students from other countries. Lets put our schools on a year round basis, and let the teachers earn a yearly salary by working a full year.

The best solution, in my opinion, is to reject the current educational system, and move to a system where lessons are written by the best teachers and placed onto a computerized data base, and our current teachers are retrained to become seminar leaders or advisors, who could meet with small groups of students to monitor and facilitate progress. There is already a body of excellent lessons and lectures available on the internet, but out current administration doesn't encourage their use, as it would interfere with our current system.

it might be more affordable and more effective to just dig up the old manuals and rules from 20 or 30 years ago and use those. and to stop over-training teachers.

Will Brown wrote:But our schools are very much controlled by an educational organization that insists on preserving a system that doesn't work. The teachers unions have extraordinary political power and don't hesitate to use their money and supposedly superior knowledge to protect their turf.

A past president of the National Education Association was once asked about the students. His answer: "The students aren't my constituancy".

Modern union leaders have more political sense than to be that honest but I think the sentiment still rules.

Mr. George,
I may seem to have a bias since I am in school to become a teacher, but I have no plans to teach in Lakewood and I am a home owner and tax payer in Lakewood so have an interest there in terms of taxes. I 100% agree that we cannot afford to have taxes raised any more if we are to attract new home buyers in this area. I also agree that retirement should not be 100% paid for in this district when that is not the case in other districts and it is truly hurting the tax payers here. I don't agree overall that teachers here are overpaid, because as a parent, I want the best for my children, and I am thrilled beyond words with the teachers and staff at Hayes with my youngest two, as I was with Emerson for my oldest. Am I always thrilled with the high school? No. I hear conversations from teens about some teachers there who pass out worksheets instead of teaching. I hope and pray that that isn't true. I also think they are the exception and not the rule there, because I hear more stories about amazing teachers there.

My belief is that if a teacher inspires a student to become more than what that student would have been without the teacher, that justifies their salary. What if that were your child? Whether the student was encouraged to become a surgeon or an actor on Broadway is irrelevant, if that teacher was instrumental in helping to develop the student's future. Ms. Hanson in the music department at LHS led the students to Carnegie Hall as only a small group out of the country to be chosen. Ms. Rosewitz at Emerson did amazing things with show choir, winning all competitions and blowing people away with the the extras she put into her students. The reason there is research that states mastery of a subject does not dictate a good teacher, is because teachers are teaching students, children, not just subjects. And the really good teachers know that.

While I appreciate all the opinions and posts here, I 100% disagree that teaching is worse now than it used to be. I am becoming a teacher because I want to be the teacher I never had. When I was a kid, teachers could hit and humiliate students. Minorities were thrown into special education because of cultural bias. Special Education students at one time did not have a right to a public education, and when they did, it still took years to mandate equal opportunities for them. Now, there is so much pressure on teachers to produce numbers on standardized tests that children are sometimes forgotten in the process. And there is a reason so many alternative schools have popped up to educate children with behavior problems so severe that public schools cannot do it. The home environment has changed so drastically that teachers are forced to deal with the effects on children from dysfunctional homes from pre-school on up. Mastery of a subject area is not even close enough to qualify to be a teacher. The reason a higher education is required is because learning to write IEP's, lesson plans, and collaborate with parents and other professionals is much more involved than what non-teachers know.

When I am at Hayes, every kindergarten teacher that walks by knows my son's name and every one of them lovingly say "Hi Aidan". They all work together for all the students and it shows. Is a teacher overpaid if she makes enough of a difference in your child's life to help him or her be a success in life, not just school? That is the million dollar question for me, even if I take a teaching position in another school district making significantly less than Lakewood teachers. While we can't afford to raise taxes anymore, we also have to remember that the single most important factor in people deciding to buy a home in Lakewood, in my opinion, is the schools. And to say the teachers "got new schools" is missing the big picture of what our children have and what other people will move here for in the future.

Justine, I never said they were over paid. I said they were more than well paid. And I never critizced any teachers. My inference is that when times are tough, everybody has to give in a little. For examble, if they paid what the private sector pays in Helath Care, the tax payers would save $1.5 million a year. If we reduced the staff level by just 8 non-teaching positions (library aid, Computer Room aid, etc there are over 100 of these positions) the tax payers could save a Half a million a year. If administrators received 14% pension instead of 24% tax payers would save $1.7 milliona year. Guaranteed annual raise of 3% instead of 4% - 6% would save tax payers over $1 million dollars a year. Walla!, no tax increase needed. Or at least not nearly as often. There are many things they can do if they just gave in a bit. Contracts are typically only 3 years. If times get better, they can always get something back during the next negotiations.

And really, what it all boils down to is even the best teacher can't teach any kid effectively without parental interaction. Parents need to instill a learning attitude with there kids, work with them, encourage them and pariase them. That is the number one reason kids fail in school.

I agree with most everything you said. Sounds like you will make a good teacher. Thank you in advance for dedicated your time to teach our children.

William,
I am sorry if I addressed two different people's post under one single response. I guess I was responding to the other post that said teachers used to be much better and paid much less! I couldn't disagree more with that, because of some of the amazing teachers my children have had and do have now. And I do agree with you that some cuts could be taken in the retirement department to help not raise taxes (I would agree even if I did teach in Lakewood). But the sad reality of parental influence in the home being the primary influence in a child's education just isn't so anymore. There are so many parents that aren't there, on drugs, or working two jobs because the other parent is on drugs, etc. so sometimes a teacher may be the only positive influence in a child's life. That is my response to the question "Are teachers overpaid?"
I also disagree that schools should go year round, but would be interested in hearing about the research on schools that do. My uncle teaches in Las Vegas and they go year round with two week breaks here and there, but I thought some of the motivation for that was keeping kids in safer environments. I think the kids work very hard in school, from pre-school up, and want mine to be kids and balance fun with work, since that is not always the case once you hit eighteen, but that is just my opinion. I have seen many successful people who went through the school schedule in this country with summers off.

Thank you for your thought out research and encouragement!

While I honor teachers, Mr. George is absolutely correct. Parents are the most important factor in a child's education.

When I was working many moons ago for Lakewood Taxpayers for Repsonsible Schools - a group that was established to pass a levy. We had a member on our team that was a big statistician at CWRU. We ran every correlation imaginable. The only ones that screamed out as critical factors in a child's success was the Parent's Educational Level and the Parent's Income Level. Nothing else held a candle to them.

So it is depressing - what can you do? This is a factor that is difficult to manipulate with throwing money at it. Of course we all know success stories of children that do amazing things despite a poor family life. But those are unfortunately not the rule.

One of the other things that I have noticed in watching my own children and their classmates is that children that do extremely well are often children with stable two parent families. Again we all know exceptions of children that rise above. But if the child's biggest worry is the spelling test instead of how to get food - we are ahead in education.

I posted that teachers of prior generations were better teachers than those of today, and I stand by that. I'm sure the education cabal can invent some statistics that they claim show otherwise, and I'm surer that the number of capable graduates will not be one of those statistics.

I base my judgment on having attended Lakewood schools, and a generation later, having been involved in those same schools as a parent; I also have a teaching degree, but I don't brag about that as I picked that degree because I was more interested in partying than studying, and the education degree was suited to those objectives as it was, may I say, not much of a challenge.

I question what weight we should give the postings from an individual who has not yet completed her degree (I was going to say education, but in reality our education continues through our life, unless we have real problems), who has never taught, and who is highly impressed by kindergarten teachers who are friendly and know her child's name; all our babysitters were friendly and knew our childrens' names, but that hardly meant they were good teachers.

For example, she asserts that teachers could beat students. When I attended the Lakewood schools, teachers did not beat students. Believe me, I was the sort of student who would certainly have had first hand knowledge if beatings were being administered.

I suspect that today a teaching degree includes coursework in evasion of responsibility for your own work (if a student does poorly, point the finger at someone else; never let them think you are at all responsible, except in the case of a student who does well). Other coursework apparently includes blaming the students, blaming their parent(s), blaming their lack of parents, blaming society, blaming TV and other electronics, and blaming the administration, the bomb, and global warming. The educational cabal cranks out reams of studies in support of these excuses, as though disinterested parents and societal problems were just invented. These problems have been with us for eons, and it is only today's teachers who seem to find them so overwhelming.

I agree that involved parenting is essential, but I'm not convinced that the educational level of the parents is essential. All of us are immigrants or descendants of immigrants (yes, even the Native Americans are apparently immigrants, but they got here first) and it has been my experience that most immigrants are not well educated, in the formal sense, but they value education, and insist that their children apply themselves.

My support for parental involvement is not good news for the public schools, however, because it is based on the remarkably good achievements of home schooled students. Few, if any, of the teachers of home schooled students have any professional credentials, and many don't even have a college degree. Yet armed with lesson plans from uncredentialed sources, they manage to impart a superior education to their children. So if an uncredentialed person can teach so productively, it would appear that the years spent getting an education degree are without much value, other than for demanding a higher salary from a school system that pays based on paper credentials, rather than productivity. I think this stands out most sharply in the case of administrators, who are hired and paid based on their paper credentials, without regard to whether they have any executive ability or leadership ability.

I'm not opposed to public schools. But I think they are in drastic need of change to make them more productive if we hope to serve our children and our community well, and I think we have ceded too much authority to the educational establishment that is, in many ways, failing us.

I think that Lynn hit the nail on the head when she stated that:

if the child's biggest worry is the spelling test instead of how to get food - we are ahead in education.

in the year 2008, I see more students who have to work to be able to get through high school and save up for college. A lot of my classmates in college work seven days a week (yes, I said seven) to be able to take care of themselves. This causes a conflict with school work.

A big part of the reason why I did so poorly in high school was because I worked. I worked 35 hours a week until I switched to a higher paying job with the Indians that let me work a less demanding schedule. And my grades went up.

Will,
I know why immigrants tend to be more studious and appreciative of their education. It's because we understand the importance of money. Also, our parents, who finished college back home, can't do anything but work $9 an hour jobs because their college degrees don't mean a thing to employers in the US. That's probably the biggest motivational factor that fresh immigrants have. All of their parents work for little wages because they have given up their futures for the sake of the childrens. This means that the children see what the struggle of working 50-60 hours a week for enough money to get by every month is and strive for a higher ground, where they can not only support themselves but also their parents if they are lucky enough to retire.

When a child is comfortable in what their parents have given them, they do not seek much improvement. When a child comes from very little, they have a lot of stars to strive for, and a lot more room for upward mobility. Not only do they have the responsibility to take care of their own future, but they have the futures of their parents and family overseas to take care of as well.

Will Brown wrote: I'm not opposed to public schools. But I think they are in drastic need of change to make them more productive if we hope to serve our children and our community well, and I think we have ceded too much authority to the educational establishment that is, in many ways, failing us.

You should run for school board.

George Orwell said it best:

"In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act."

The City is being drained dry buy its bureaucracies.

"For example, she asserts that teachers could beat students. When I attended the Lakewood schools, teachers did not beat students. Believe me, I was the sort of student who would certainly have had first hand knowledge if beatings were being administered."

I went to Harding in 74, 75. I received my share of swats. The shop teacher. Mr Bucholz. (not sure of spelling). Corporal punishment was administered.

I remember you, Mr. Bobik. I also attended Harding the same time you did. I received a swat on my buttocks from a teacher when I was in 7th grade. I think that is the type of beating the prior post was referring to. I was afraid of getting swats, so I behaved.

The parents education level does not matter. If the parent works through the text book with their children at a very early age, the parent actually may learn something. It benefits both. I know of examples where this is happening in Lakewood. There is a volunteer program where anyone can help tutor a child. In many situations, the one parent family struggles due to having to leave for work early and not being sure if your kid will get up to go to school in the morning. But the truly concerned parent makes his kids get up or arranges for this to occur. It doesn't take brains to insist your kid does his homework every night. Tutoring is availble for anyone.

I'm happy to tell people my wife and I agreed prior to getting married that if we had kids she would stay at home. While we have endured more finacial stress, it is well worth it. My 4 year old can read. And she is only in pre-K. My 2 year old knows the alphabet. These are things some Kintergardeners can't do yet. How hard is it to read an ABC book to a kid? You don't need to be a genius.

I'm not sure if the probelm will ever be solved for all kids. But raising taxes is not the sollution. Dress codes, suspensions, after school programs and inovative programs are need. It seems these students are easily identifyable, based on discussions I've had with board members and teachers. The problem is, finacial stress limits the solutions. If teachers really cared about teaching, they would make consessions so we could afford to pay for these after school programs and fund other inovative ideas.

There is a sense of entitlement, believe me. Certain Board members believe all tax levies will always be passed. The Lakewood Teachers Association (LTA) feels that way also. Can't say I blame them, in a way. LKWD citizens have passed every levy and bond issue since 1980. We have had 12 since then. That is almost 1 every other year. The LTA and Certain board memebers feel they won't need to make consessions until a levy is defeated. Defeating the next levy will send a message to the board and will require the cutting of expenses. Tthe current superintendant told me he would first cuts programs rather than teaching positions. That is wrong! We need to insist other cuts be made before cutting programs (he mentioned art and music). There are so many other things we can do. We need a superintendant who is willing to hold strong against the union and stand up for financial reform, even if it means a strike. And a strike is not that bad. The current supply of teachers in Ohio is more than the demand. Plenty of teachers would come work in Lakewood even if our compensation package was a little less lucrative than it is today. And the teachers know that, they just won't tell you they know that. They want you to fear a strike. They will say "you have to have good pay to keep good teachers". But that is actually 100% wrong. Sure, good pay will attract more applicants. But a Superior program will attract teachers who really care about kids and teaching regardless of pay. We need a Superior program. And there are only 7 people in Lakewood that can make this change happen. You only need to convince 5 of them. The superintendant, the treasure, and 3 of the 5 board members (majority vote).

Great conversation! I'll be going over this for the next several days to read comments.

I dont believe that any members of the board who served in the mid-1990s (Gieger, Beebe, and Shaughnessy) believe that all levies will automatically be passed.