The Establishment

[Dan Shields]

Bobbie -

Right On!

Thank you for your intelligent, measured response. I regret that I haven't been able to say it better myself. It shows experience, which is what I think Lakewood could use right now on council. I'm 47, I've seen a thing or two, all here in northeast Ohio. I remember Collinwood, the East Bank of the Flats, I grew up on Miles Ave., and have lived in Slavic Village and Ohio City.

I don't pretend that crime does not exist. It does. However, as I travel throughout the city (which I do daily), I see families with strollers, seniors out exercising, joggers and dog-walkers, and hipsters at coffee shops. I will not buy into the fear-mongering and code language I've experienced in this campaign. Yes, very Bush-like.

I think it takes greater strength to say, we will keep the city safe, but do so with the real facts and figures at hand.

In any event, I'm old enough to remember 'The Russians are Coming, the Russians are Coming'. Let's not go there.

Dan Shields

[Dan Slife]

Steve,

I DO know what you believe. You argued your perspective on safety for 30+ minutes in a Wilbert Ave. back yard a couple of weeks ago.

If your perspective has changed, please let me know. At that time it was, "I've been having my things stolen and or vandalized since the 1970's.....there's always been crime in Lakewood"

My challange to you and Bobbie, both of whom were present, was to consider the quality of life dissorder as class NOT race based. (Yes, Sharon will now respond that I'm classist....)

I issued this challange to Dan Shields as well, at Bela Dubby several months ago. Actually, I did so following Dan's description of the degeneration of his own childhood neighborhood in Cleveland. It was interesting, Dan would admit that the neighborhood was filled with vacancies and criminal activities, but would not say it was "a bad place to live" The neighborhood is in the Miles area to the southeast in Cleveland. I suggested to Dan that Lakewood will be subject to the same cycle of degeneration. He dis-agreed. I support Bullock.

In terms of class, we are now taking on a criminal underclass born of sub-cultural economic survival. Some of the individuals now landing here have been displaced from neighborhoods that rival the third world life conditions you have experienced in your travels, Bobbie. Where the mainstream economy excludes it's privilages, drug trafficing, prostitution, gang violence and territorial control fill the void.

It's a great hope that some of these individuals will be lifted up and out of that life-style by moving to Lakewood. Most will not.

As Bobbie argues here, kids have always been involved in drugs and social unrest. However, middle and upper class kids rebelling to change a system for social ends is something different from disaffected people of the criminal underclass selling crack cocaine to Justin Way then attempting his murder behind the Party Station, putting a bullet in the head of Sean Josyln at the Sloan Ave. McDonalds.

It's about keeping this place safe and civil.

I've talked to people all over the city. We are in a crisis.

Unlike Bush, there is no insinuation of evidence. It comes from people who've been vicitmized, Bobbie. Things may be going well in neighborhoods north of Clifton, but check in with you're fellow Lakewoodites living south of Madision as well as those in the 6-8 blocks abutting Cleveland to the east.

This is where block watches are popping up, by citizen initiative. People don't estalbish block watches for the hell of it. They do so because they or their neighbors have been victimized. Talk to Diane Helbig. I make no unsupported claims. On the contrary, you deny that anything is happening despite the real, living experience of many residents who do care about the city and wish to see it thrive.

[Gary Rice]

Good morning Dan,

I believe you mentioned MY name?

Let me suggest to you, my young friend, that when you involve someone's NAME in your own opinions, that a NAME represents all that a person is.

People will protect their names. In some cases, it may be all they have.

First, may I compliment you on developing your thinking, and having the courage and conviction to express your thoughts.

That's what so many of us did, so many years ago, when we were young.

And we too, tried to make a better world.

Shall I tell you about what happened when I drank from a "colored" drinking fountain?

Shall I tell you about Birmingham, Anniston, Gadsden, Montgomery?

Shall I tell you about what happened when I was told I could never teach due to a "speech problem"?

Shall I tell you what I DID about those arrogant remarks?

Since I am a retired teacher, I think you can guess what happened.

Dan, if there's ONE THING IN THIS ENTIRE LIFE OF MINE THAT I KNOW HOW TO DO, AND DO WELL, it's to fight.

But fight, with ideas, with caring and with non-violence, if you will.

There is, of course, such a thing as verbal violence too. One could make a case that this type of violence starts all the others.

In the midst of the turmoil going on on the 'Deck, I posted photos of some of the best stuff going on in Lakewood.

And it was appreciated.

And true.

And you called my work a DENIAL?

Take another look, my young friend. Things are not always as they seem.

It takes more effort to build, than it does to tear down.

[Dan Slife]

Gary,

I do appreciate the positive vibes you wish to bring to an otherwise disordered deck. We have to remaing hopefull, or there is no point. I am hopeful that a new generation of leadership can reform city government. In my mind, it's reform or bust.

However, I do perceive the photos and posts to be inflationary. That's fine. You're a good man. You support a candidate that I do not.

We have different perspectives on the state of our city.

In my mind, Lakewood's greatest asset, and what makes me have hope for its future is the many great people who decide to call this place home, and invest in our community.

I didn't see a single individual person, other than Tom George, featured in your photo blog.

Infrastructurally, we are in a bind, with dwindling resources amidst the threat of federal penalties for non-compliance on EPA mandates. Let's not fool ourselves, the sewers are not being replaced fast enought.... we don't have the money. The asphalt does not reveal a bright future, the EPA penalties begin kicking in soon. Howmany of the repaved streets featured in your blog also received a full sewer replacement?

It will take but a decade of accumulated federal penalities compounded by: a dwindling tax base, ever-increasing compensation to public sector unions and over-extension on debt to bankrupt the city.

In crisis, the demand for government services peaks just as the ability to deliver such services is at its nadir.

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Slife,

I don't think a man is in denial if he loves the city that he lives in. I think it's more the other way around, that the man who can't see the positive changes in his city is the one that's in denial.

As I've spent time with Gary, I can tell you that he is well aware of the status of his city. He focuses on the positive, rather than the negative. And while we can still recognize and see the negative, it is the positive that we show through photographs and writings (history, schools, etc.).

Can you blame us for focusing on the positive?
I think a person who wants to be in city politics has a completely different view of the city than the person who is here to enjoy the beauty of this place.

Great job on your Ken Warren impersonation, I didn't understand a single word in your first three posts.

Hope the squirrels don't bite on your side of town,
Ivor

[Jim O'Bryan]

In crisis, the demand for government services peaks just as the ability to deliver such services is at its nadir.

Dan

I am not sure you can hang this on one candidate or the other.

It would seem as if both were sitting pretty far up in the Lakewood Bus for this ride too close to the edge.

There in lies my problem.

Also, one thing that has come forward to many of the meetings of late.

It is not who can fix the city. It has now become who can fix the damage they did to the city during their campaigns.

I have seen 4 candidates on TV talking of how bad the crime is. When in fact they all walk the streets door to door, some with their children, and not one incident near them. They are not as afraid as they would lead us to believe.

So one has to ask why?

Ivor

Even a bad impersonation of Ken Warren is miles better than most can bring. Dan, is truly his own man, with much influence from Ken and others. I have even heard him growl occasionally.

If you cannot understand, read it again. It will creep into your head.

You, me, ken, steve, dan, and many we are family, we are neighbors, and we need to get this over so that many of can continue. As Dan points out, there is no money for dreams, or visions. the next 5 years it is sewers and what we can do as residents. Not what City Hall can do, you know that, Dan knows that, Ken knows that.

.

[sharon kinsella]

Just to make you feel even more smug Dan - you're a classist.

We didn't build this city on rock n roll we built this city and this country on the backs of working people.

Abe Lincoln was poor. The immigrants who founded this country were outcasts and the "underclass" in Europe who came here for a better life.

When you take your paid vacation, use your paid sick days, enjoy your paid holidays, pull workers comp if you're hurt on the job or use your health care payments, thank the benevolent upper classes who gave these things to you out of the goodness of their heart.

Re-read history Dan. Quit buying into the fantasies of fear mongers and fools. Also remember that many of those you criticize made history.Never presume that you know more about creating change than those like Gary Rice who faced down odds that you don't have to becasue of people like him who fought the good fight long before you were a twinkle in your moms eye.

[stephen davis]

[Grace O'Malley]

Slife wrote:

kids have always been involved in drugs and social unrest. However, middle and upper class kids rebelling to change a system for social ends is something different from disaffected people of the criminal underclass selling crack cocaine

What would you call this, Dan, other than elitism, classism, or contempt for the underclass?

So its OK if Rufus from Westlake uses drugs and sells a bit to make some cash; he's just "experimenting and stretching his boundaries, like all youth do." But God forbid some poor Lakewood kid does the same thing. then its no longer "sowing oats," or "kids will be kids;" no, its a CRIME! A SIGN OF SOCIAL BREAKDOWN AND DEGRADATION!

Reminds me of the disconnect people have between white collar crime and common bank robbers. That broke dud who steals $300 bucks oughta be locked up for life but that nice Mr. Jones who embezzled a million from the pension fund he manages is a nice family guy that deserves another chance. He shouldn;t be in jail with those other "criminals."

You also made earlier reference to those poor rich people "taxed out their wazoos," and disparaged our progressive tax system.

You've placed too much stock in Bier, and his prediction that Lakewood would be a ghetto, schools filled with "unteachables," and burned out houses.

[Gary Rice]

Dan,

Don't feel too bashed here.

As Jim said, we are a family of good friends.

Case in point.

Yes, I do like Tom George for mayor. I've known him since high school and he has a habit of quietly getting things done. Plus he is my friend, and a friend does not turn his back on a friend.

Still, I felt it necessary to mention, and give credit to both Ed and Ryan in my photo blog text, and in fact, the first person to compliment the blog was Ed Fitzgerald.

He is a classy and dedicated guy, with a love for our city that won't quit. He just might win too.

I hope that Tom and Ed will both keep in mind exactly how divided this city has been in the past, and how fractionalized it has become in the past few months.

We need to start healing NOW.

As to how "intellectual" we should make our postings? While I admire intellect, I admire APPLIED intellect even more.

I can only offer two tidbits of "wisdom" here from what little I have learned in life.

from 1 Corinthians 1-27 (the Bible)

God has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise.

and from St. John of the Cross:

The wisdom of this world is foolishness with God...

It is for us all here, to recognize the difference.

Kumbayah

[Ivor Karabatkovic]

Jim,

Completely agree with you.
My neighbors house would get flooded when the sewers get backed up from all the rain.
The city just fixed it in the past few weeks before repaving my street.

There's something about going from a 60" sewer pipe to a 12" or a 6" sewer that isn't logical to me.

Regardless,
if we can fix the sewers, streets and security then we'll be well off.

And I've heard Dan growl a few times as well.
Never bite if a growl will do!

[Shawn Juris]

Would this be a good time to actually look at the evidence and the numbers that indicate that Lakewood has changed? I keep hearing the drum beat that the FBI reports do not show anything that we should be concerned with. From my perspective the Bush-like blindness is coming from those that keep saying "everything is okay". One quick question, are you guys frickin blind? Do you really just look at the broad picture of total property crime and total violent crime and not at the details of what types of crimes are occuring in Lakewood as opposed to past years. Once again, would you prefer that you get pick pocketed or buglarized, would you prefer to have you bike stolen or your car. These are the differences in crime that I see in analyzing these reports. From what I'm told from local prosecutors there is an issue in Lakewood and the increase in crime is significant. But by all means if this is about "building a brand' or being positive then don't let the facts bother you.
Frankly, as a 34 year old, I don't give a crap about what a bunch of old hippies went through. Good for you. I mean that sincerely, you've experienced a great deal and for your efforts the world is a better place in some ways. In other ways it's softer and more accepting of idiots that think that they can do what they want and should be protected from criticism because they have some shortcoming, like being an idiot. Things are different now and if we could come back to reality the question is not if I want to live in a 3rd world country or in Lakewood or if I want to experience a race riot or live in Lakewood, it's do I want to stay in Lakewood or move to some other place. I care about what my child is going to go through if we stay in Lakewood to raise him. I don't see it as overreacting to admit that there is an issue that we are faced with and to expect the leadership, particularly the one that will serve as Director of Public Safety to be honest about it and deal with it effectively. Call Dan an elitist if you want to but please add me to the list. I would much rather be seen as someone that expects more from my community than be viewed as a bleeding heart liberal that would give up my community just so I don't have to admit what the problem is.

[Jim O'Bryan]

Would this be a good time to actually look at the evidence and the numbers that indicate that Lakewood has changed? I keep hearing the drum beat that the FBI reports do not show anything that we should be concerned with. From my perspective the Bush-like blindness is coming from those that keep saying "everything is okay". One quick question, are you guys frickin blind? Do you really just look at the broad picture of total property crime and total violent crime and not at the details of what types of crimes are occuring in Lakewood as opposed to past years. Once again, would you prefer that you get pick pocketed or buglarized, would you prefer to have you bike stolen or your car. These are the differences in crime that I see in analyzing these reports. From what I'm told from local prosecutors there is an issue in Lakewood and the increase in crime is significant. But by all means if this is about "building a brand' or being positive then don't let the facts bother you.
Frankly, as a 34 year old, I don't give a crap about what a bunch of old hippies went through. Good for you. I mean that sincerely, you've experienced a great deal and for your efforts the world is a better place in some ways. In other ways it's softer and more accepting of idiots that think that they can do what they want and should be protected from criticism because they have some shortcoming, like being an idiot. Things are different now and if we could come back to reality the question is not if I want to live in a 3rd world country or in Lakewood or if I want to experience a race riot or live in Lakewood, it's do I want to stay in Lakewood or move to some other place. I care about what my child is going to go through if we stay in Lakewood to raise him. I don't see it as overreacting to admit that there is an issue that we are faced with and to expect the leadership, particularly the one that will serve as Director of Public Safety to be honest about it and deal with it effectively. Call Dan an elitist if you want to but please add me to the list. I would much rather be seen as someone that expects more from my community than be viewed as a bleeding heart liberal that would give up my community just so I don't have to admit what the problem is.

shawn


a lot of anger in that post.

wow


.

[Shawn Juris]

yep.

[Jim O'Bryan]

yep.

Shawn


This is the biggest flaw in "perception is real" argument. You have a bunch of good people getting angry and scared at boggermen that are not really there.

Tremendous amount of wasted energy and anxiety.

Do not believe the hype, do the drill down.

I walk the streets with Warren and Slife, never scared never attacked.

When was the last person pick pocketed in Lakewood?

Or maybe with go with the Chamber realease of last year? "Because of the increased number of rapes and attacks in downtown Lakewood..."

At the time the increase was from 0 to 0.

Hype prays on the week minded.

I was happy to see you and Mrs. Juris walking the baby, you did not look scared. You did not seem on the look out. Saw Ed out walking door to door with his daughter. They were smiling, I saw no gun. Bullock and I used to drink together until the wee hours, i never remember him telling me to be careful, until he ran for office.

As Steve Davis put it so well. What happens in January when the random act of violence happens, and all realize, we should have kept the cow not the magic beans?


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