The Observation Deck

Todd -

It's not because people want a new car or a plasma tv or don't read a contract.

It's not that simple. If you want to do this can of worms let's do it.

We are living in a time when people are being manipulated in very savvy ways.

Television and the big newspapers are run on advertising dollars. Ad agencies and PR firms are run by experts on psychology and brainwashing.
Their job is to make people feel that they REALLY need stuff, junk, crud, things that no one really needs. People buy this stuff because they've been conditioned and brainwashed into it. They think that this stuff will make them happy.

Analytical thinking isn't included in most high school currirculums. Neither are Consumer Economics, Labor History or Legal Documentation.

Read a contract. Most people can't figure out what it says. I have people who call me wanting to know what things mean in a standard lease form. This stuff is written in such a way that a regular person just gives up trying to decipher it.

Sales techniques. This is a whole other ballgame. I've been involved in a lot of sales trainings. If you haven't - go to one. They teach people to manipulate, confuse and override the common sense that most people defend themselves with. Overcoming objections is an art form. Have you ever heard of people called "closers"? In political campaigns they are called campaign managers - good ones get the job done. Oh and there are also thos people called "Spin Doctors" in politics but now is not the time.

Just my two cents.

sharon kinsella wrote: We are living in a time when people are being manipulated in very savvy ways.

I would suggest times are no different now than they were ever in history. People have always been manipulated. Whether it was the Roman Colosseum placating the mobs or today's "scandal of the month" mortgage meltdown, this is, unfortunately, the way humanity has always behaved.

As much as some may want to make this a R vs D debate over which party hates the people more, I would challenge to say it's a human psyche issue that has existed since we began walking upright.

Sharon,

My roommate and best friend works in sales so i am somewhat familiar with the methods of which you speak. While I basically never agree with your posts they are always well thought out and articulate and I am willing to bet you probably don't sign your name to legally binding documents without understanding the ramifications thereof. And I just wonder in your mind if personal responsibility plays any role in people's life decisions? Because from reading your post I am under the impression that most everyone who is over the head in personal debt is the victim of savvy marketing, unscrupulous salesman and societal forces that make credit attractive and easy to obtain. It sounds like you are trying to say we need someone or something to protect people from themselves.

sharon kinsella wrote:Hey - Just throwing it back on the John Edwards comment.

Don't cry foul on one opportunist and then act all "I'm to kewl for this" when it's pointed out that he's not the only one.

It case no one got why I posted it!

Sharon do not take everything so personal. The subject was subprime not Halliburton. And I hope that you are not assuming that I am a repub.. just sayin

Todd,
You could not be more wrong in saying the government has no blame in the foreclosure epidemic in this country. They absolutely could have passed laws years ago against predatory lending. In this state it was only after Strickland took office that changes were made, and at the eleventh hour Taft passed legislation to help the predatory lenders. The blame in this crisis that is destroying America while we rebuild Iraq has enough blame to go around for sure, but to say the government has no hand in it, is absolutely not true. Predatory lending goes far, far beyond people overspending.

Todd

Let me get this straight. You see no connection between almost paying off the National Debt when gWB came into power, the insane borrowing of this administration to pay for the war, the companies benfitting, the money supply, the mortgage rates, and now the foreclosures.

No connection?

It just kind of happened?

We should move to this National.


.

Jim O'Bryan wrote:Todd

Not to get drawn into this.

But when to take a country that was 5 years away from paying off the National Debt, and throw it into near bankruptcy over a war that was built on lies and did not have to be fought NOW. I think we can pin a lot of this BS on GWB and Cheney.

.

The cost of 9-11 to the economy and the war on terrorism have increased the national debt, no doubt. The US was very lucky that the post 9-11 economy did not turn into a depression.

The previous admin slashed military spending and did nothing to combat terrorism. They slashed the CIA covert budget in Afghanistan knowing that bin Laden had set up camp in Afghanistan. Wow, we were 5 years from having no national debt but at what cost? And do not forget about the internet boom of the 90's (the over evaluated stock that the 2000's economy paid for). A more balance approached by both Clinton and Bush would have avoided this temporary mess. And also, you need to look at the national debt in terms of a percentage of the GDP. The US usually has higher national debt during times of war.

Jim wrote: war that was built on lies and did not have to be fought NOW

UN 1441 (clicky)

Good evening.

Earlier today, I ordered America’s armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq’s nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world.

He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983."
Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies."
Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

One of the things I witnessed in the non-conforming lender I briefly worked for, was brokers (once again no formal education but dealing with people's money) promising refinances to homeowners with all kinds of promises, THEN the underwriters at the lenders, while giving themselves ulcers, did all kinds of CREATIVE underwriting to get the loan sold, regardless if the homeowner could actually afford the "new" mortgage payment. To assume all homeowners should know everything they are signing in the world of mortgages sounds nice, but many educated and non-educated people got fooled. The sales tactics were aggressive and deceptive.

One manager of an office of this NY lender actually put through a loan for a half million dollar house that DID NOT exist. All false documents and no house but a half million dollars got wired! Yea that lender is out of business. But a lot of guys were driving really nice cars and smoking really good cigars before it closed, while inner city homeowners lost their homes one by one. It is so much more than the plasma tv.

Jim,

I know that you and many other wish to believe that all that is wrong with the world began on Jan. 20, 2001 but predatory lending and mortgage for closure problems predate GWB and the boys by decades. Read the book Cities Destroyed For Cash by. Brian D. Boyer that chronicles the fraud and corruption in the FHA and private mortgage lending programs have led to the decimation of American Cities. Oh, and by the way the book was written in 1973 and the last time I recall reading it GWB, Dick Cheney, or WMD's were nowhere to be found in the book. So to answer your question no I don't see the connection between the overspending for the war in Iraq and the mortgage crisis.
P.S. I'll be happy to drop off this book at the magnifcent LO headquarters if you would like to read it.

Federal debt vs GDP (clicky) Wiki???? I will try to verify this data...

Speaking for myself I am not connecting the foreclosure rate to the war directly, but the government played a part by not putting legislature into place to protect homeowners! And there is proof politicians got kickbacks from predatory lobbyists!!!!! The book may have been written in the seventies, but explain the foreclosure rates in the last few years!!! Virginia foreclosures are up 650% from last year!

And for those who think we shouldn't need laws to protect homeowners, what happens to a country that is filled with foreclosed homes? If we can put curfew laws into place because parents can't do it themselves, we certainly need not argue putting laws into place to protect homes and this country.

Justine Cooper wrote:Speaking for myself I am not connecting the foreclosure rate to the war directly, but the government played a part by not putting legislature into place to protect homeowners! And there is proof politicians got kickbacks from predatory lobbyists!!!!! The book may have been written in the seventies, but explain the foreclosure rates in the last few years!!! Virginia foreclosures are up 650% from last year!

And for those who think we shouldn't need laws to protect homeowners, what happens to a country that is filled with foreclosed homes? If we can put curfew laws into place because parents can't do it themselves, we certainly need not argue putting laws into place to protect homes and this country.

God forbid people read and understand what they are signing! Why is it the responsibility of the government to do this? Let us put the blame where it belongs, on the individuals who sign 20 pages of documents and do not take the time to read undertand the terms and conditions of their loan.. More government is never the answer... Hello! George Bush!

Stephen I like to think of myself as well spoken but you just said it better then I ever could. Good Post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks Todd!

Why should the government pass legislation to have laws in place to protect consumers? Is that a rhetorical question?????

So should the FDA not regulate the food and drug market?(well China hopes not and loves the job they are doing.)