The Observation Deck

Dee Martinez wrote:Wow!
If you want to know why Section 8 thrives in Lakewood, Mr. Lay has given us Exhibit A.
$1200 for a duplex on Ridgewood? Almost $1000 for the top of a double on Jackson? Are you kidding me?
Sounds insane right? But remember that Jackson is less than 1/2 mile from the Carlyle where rents can easily go for twice that. Hence "fair market rent'

Wow!

At least I know where some of my tax dollars are going..

Dee Krupp wrote:

sharon kinsella wrote:True story.

The next day, right before she was leaving to go pay the security and sign the lease, the landlord called her and told her he was going to rent to a section 8 recipient because he could get $1,000.00 for section 8.

That's absolutely absurd!! It's sickening that the system is once AGAIN being abused and misused.

Welcome to America And I wonder who pays for this abuse??

Rick Uldricks wrote:I can't help but wonder though, why are Cleveland Hts and Lakewood yielding such high numbers for available section 8 rentals? Is it because there are more Section 8 apartments, or is it because the rate of turnover on these units is high in these cities? Or perhaps, there are other available Section 8 apartments and they simply aren't registered on this site?

I would also guess that local amenities would be a part of it. Lakewood is a) walkable and b) busable (okay, not a word). There are more frequent bus routes in Lakewood, closer walks to needed stores and probably easier access to the kinds of jobs people on Section 8 would be looking at...namely jobs that can be reasonably close to a bus route. I know there is some bus action in Westlake but hardly as easy to get as in Lakewood or Cleveland Hts.


Maybe if some of those apartments didn't rent/sell in Crocker Park they could start to accept Section 8? I would think even Lakewood's own tax curmudgeons would love to see that!

Maybe if some of those apartments didn't rent/sell in Crocker Park they could start to accept Section 8? I would think even Lakewood's own tax curmudgeons would love to see that!

Now that is funny!

deleted

Because he can get higher than fair market value for his property.

By the way - if they are collecting so much more rent - shouldn't they be paying higher property taxes?

Well, won't the rental market pick up when it is (once again) tougher to buy a home than to rent it? Rates are still pretty low and the "bubble" really doesn't seem to have burst.

Phil Florian wrote:Maybe if some of those apartments didn't rent/sell in Crocker Park they could start to accept Section 8? I would think even Lakewood's own tax curmudgeons would love to see that!

Maybe Lakewood should buy some rental units in Westlake and Bay and help those city's with their fair share.

I think it might be worth a loss, to help our brothers and sisters.


FWIW



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Jim O'Bryan wrote:

Phil Florian wrote:Maybe if some of those apartments didn't rent/sell in Crocker Park they could start to accept Section 8? I would think even Lakewood's own tax curmudgeons would love to see that!

Maybe Lakewood should buy some rental units in Westlake and Bay and help those city's with their fair share.

I think it might be worth a loss, to help our brothers and sisters.


FWIW



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can you white flight!!

The CMHA Public Housing Authority Plan provides considerable insight in questions raised in the thread.

CMHA’s goals of fair housing penetration of neighborhoods with low minority populations and low poverty and de-concentration of public housing are both admirable and challenging.

There is “a housing consortium (Cuyahoga Urban County) comprised of 46 of these communities have joined forces in analyzing their housing needs to be combined into one Consolidated Plan, which also includes information for the entitlement cities of Cleveland Heights, Euclid, Lakewood, and Parma. The City of Cleveland and the City of East Cleveland prepare individual plans and are not part of the consortium.â€Â￾

I take it that “entitlement citiesâ€Â￾ are cities that receive federal CDBG funds. Westlake is not on the list.

The Plan is worth reading in order to understand how policies and programs of public housing demolition, mixed income development in Cleveland, resident transfers, drug elimination funding levels, coordination between the Public Housing Authority and Police are structured.

For example, the Annual Plan addresses crime and drugs in the context of public housing sites. However, the Drug Elimination Program Grant is funded at zero, a line to support safety and police services.

There is a question:

“Indicate what kinds of information you share with prospective landlords? (select all that apply)

_ Criminal or drug-related activity
X Other (describe below)
If requested, CMHA will provide owners with address of the participant and the names and addresses of current and previous owners, if known.â€Â￾

In another question:

1. Describe the coordination between the PHA and the appropriate police precincts for carrying out crime prevention measures and activities: (select all that apply)
X Police involvement in development, implementation, and/or ongoing evaluation of drug-elimination plan
X Police provide crime data to housing authority staff for analysis and action
X Police have established a physical presence on housing authority property (e.g., community policing office, officer in residence)
X Police regularly testify in and otherwise support eviction cases
X Police regularly meet with the PHA management and residents
X Agreement between PHA and local law enforcement agency for provision of above-baseline law enforcement services
Other activities (list below)

How effectively is the Lakewood Police Department coordinating with the PHA?

Again this thread raises good questions about the methodology in “The Rent Reasonableness Study.â€Â￾

CMHA needs to make the voucher program appealing to the landlord. Thus CMHA’s voucher payment policy is “Above 100% but at or below 110% of FMR.â€Â￾

CMHA’s rationale is:

“ X FMRs are not adequate to ensure success among assisted families in the PHA’s segment of the FMR area
X Reflects market or submarket
X To increase housing options for familiesâ€Â￾

Source:

http://www.cmha.net/information/docs/PHAPlan07.pdf

I hope these salients provide some measure of the action in the political economy of housing and Lakewood's challenging niche as an entitlement city in the larger regional market. As Herbert Gans once remarked economic development is about moving ethnic groups and making money.

Kenneth Warren

I hesitate to resurrect this thread, but there is a lot of mis-information posted

First of all to Mr O’Bryan – yes I do know what a lease is. I am not an idiot, but obviously not as smart as you. Your condescending comment is insulting. I have a father and a wife so I don’t need to sit with you why you tell me what I am doing wrong and how great you are. Work on the social skills man.

When I saw the initial post I thought the author was trying to be informative in that he did not take a stand one way or the other. After reading the comments I see he was just waiting to see which way the wind blew, then going with that direction. I saw it as an informative post, and wanted to indicate that my properties were no longer available.

About the site, this lists only the properties the landlord has chose to list on the CMHA website. I am sure there are many other properties available in Lakewood in which the landlord would take a voucher, but either does not know about this site or has chosen not to list. Its kind of like looking at the number of houses for sale in the Plain Dealer and assuming that is all there is.

Next about Section 8. In reality is does not exist and is now Housing Choice Voucher Program (HCVP) There are qualifications for both the landlord and the tenant, but with my limited knowledge about the program I will focus on the landlord side.

The rumors of landlords capitalizing on HCVP housing are numerous and I can’t say one way or the other if they are true. I only know from my personal experience CMHA will only pay fair market value You can list the property for what ever you want, but if you go HCVP then your lease is limited to the fair market value. You cannot have the tenant make up the difference. If so, the tenant is thrown out of the program. The stories of CMHA paying $1,000/month for a property that lists at $700/month are just not true.

Also, CMHA does an extensive inspection of the property prior to it be occupied. This means, windows, plumbing, electrical, paint, etc There can no chipped paint. All outlets and plumbing must work. If the City did a Point of Sale inspection this extensive, the housing stock would increase. There is also an annual inspection to ensure the property complies. If it doesn’t you are de-listed ant the tenant must move. Also, the program does not cover the security deposit, so that must be paid by the tenant. The tenant pays a portion of the rent as determined by CMHA. It can be no more then 40% of their income. If mortgage brokers had the same restrictions we would not have the drop in the stock market due to the blow up of the subprime market.

Finally, please look at that list and see what I am listing my property for. I have gone slightly under market in order to obtain the security of CMHA backing the rent. I am providing a chance for some families to have affordable housing. That is not a bad thing. I think that those who complain about the program should do a little research.

Just curious, how many of the 37 Section 8 housing units are in the Westerly, Fedor Manor or Lakeshore Tower?

It is my understanding that the largest number of section 8 units in Lakewood are for our senior citizens. I think these are great buildings and the seniors are a great asset in Lakewood.

Does anyone know just what percent of Section 8 housing is for Senior Citizens and disabled in Lakewood? I was hearing numbers of 80 - 90%

David,
I am glad you clarified your position. My brother is a landlord in the Philadelphia area and he also rents to Section 8 for the same reasons. I can't tell you the stories I have heard about how he has gotten screwed over. He once renovated a total dump (one property inherited by his wife's family)into a really nice place. The tenants did end up being drug addicts and did not pay their part of the rent, and after a long while and court, got evicted. When they left, they not only left the place unlivable and trashed, they stole every single thing he put into it! Even the dishwasher! So all the hostility toward Section 8 landlords and all section 8 tenants is just another damaging stereotype people have. There are a lot of decent Section 8 tenants (and not so decent rent paying tenants) and decent hard-working Section 8 landlords, also trying to pay the bills and raise their family honestly. Without the section 8 we would have even more empty and abandoned homes, thus decreasing our own homes even more. And after reading the PD and how mortgages and home sales are on the biggest decline ever, we can't afford that.

David Scott wrote:I hesitate to resurrect this thread, but there is a lot of mis-information posted

First of all to Mr O?Bryan ? yes I do know what a lease is. I am not an idiot, but obviously not as smart as you. Your condescending comment is insulting. I have a father and a wife so I don?t need to sit with you why you tell me what I am doing wrong and how great you are. Work on the social skills man.

David

GO READ WHAT I WROTE!

Not do you uderstand leases! It was not do you know what one is, It was do you use them? I do not. I do not believe in them. My tenants, and for that matter myself are very much month to month.

They have to please me and I have to work to keep them happy. I have found this much more useful than a lease which is hard to get out of and generally protects the renter more than the landlord.

The flip-side to this is I end up going overboard to keep them happy, which is nothing more than keeping my property in top condition. They keep up their end with rent on time, accepting responsibility early for things they do, and a very nice working together relationship.

This addresses many of the things others have spoken about. Stolen washers, damaged buildings etc. The time between renters seem to be less. Right now we are losing the renters and they found us our next crew coming in.

Most people that read our rules and regulations think we are nuts, then call back later and say they get it. I rented until the age of 35, so I try to be the landlord I would want to rent from. We go with heavy incentives to keep the property up. $50 a month they can spend on anything for the house. Washers, door hinges whatever. Then they have the name for all electrician, plumber, carpenter and are told to call them not me when needed. $50 off for paying rent early, $50 off for shoveling snow, cutting grass. You get a tenant in a nice property that can do little upkeep chores and save money! You are building a relationship.




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But people who own homes and pay taxes should not be criticized if THEY choose to rent to section 8 and they shouldn't all be lumped into greedy or unethical landlords. It just isn't true. Many invest for the future for themselves and their children and rent out to regular paying tenants or section 8, hoping to have that investment one day paid off. In the meantime, it is a lot of work and money and they should not be stereotyped or told how to do it. That's all.