The Observation Deck

Bill Call wrote: How do you think he would feel if when the police arrived the landlord was told that this was just normal behavior?

What do you suppose he would think if the political leadership told him that that conduct wasn't a nuisance under the local nuisance law?

Regarding noise and nuisance - when that noise comes into my living room it goes beyond being a nuisance. It becomes and invasion of my privacy.

Joe Ott wrote: Regarding noise and nuisance - when that noise comes into my living room it goes beyond being a nuisance. It becomes and invasion of my privacy.

On the Fourth of July some of our neighbors were celebrating late into the night. I just shut the window and turned up the fan. On the other hand, a series of nights of fights, swearing and rowdiness is clearly unacceptable.

One of the reasons I think the City is tipping in the wrong direction is the number of people posting who make excuses for inexcusable behavior.

When reading newspaper articles about some neighborhoods I see comments like "the residents are accustomed to gun fire" or "that violence is common" or "I just don't go out at night". When you give up and accept the unacceptable you surrender your neighborhood.

Sharon: Men Are From Mars and Women Are From Venus is the title of a book (which I finally got around to reading) the premise of which was that men and women see the world differently even when observing the same set of facts. No offense meant.

Could it be that many of the calls that were made, some were because of normal kid behaviour, i.e. bad language and loud music.

Is it now considered normal behavior for male teenagers to use bad filthy language and play loud music in densly populated Lakewood neighborhoods?

They already do! I hear them at Marcs, walking down Detroit, at the park. Even, yes, even in movie theaters at Crocker Park.

Playing loud music - you never did it when your parents weren't around?
Mine did till I started taking the cord to the boom box (back then) to work with me.

Bill Call wrote: One of the reasons I think the City is tipping in the wrong direction is the number of people posting who make excuses for inexcusable behavior. (snip) When you give up and accept the unacceptable you surrender your neighborhood.

I don't think people are "making excuses" but instead are trying to normalize the behavior. Normal doesn't mean acceptable, does it? It is normal to expect a toddler to throw themselves to the ground and have a tantrum from time to time. Is it acceptable? No, you deal with it in an appropriate manner. But it is still normal. But do you react to the toddler by sedating them with drugs immediately or putting them up for adoption?

I think the strength of the article pointed out that Lakewood could be a positive influence for these kids. Let's prove it.

I personally think people go off half-cocked when stories about places like this one appear on the Deck (see current and past discussions of Section 8 ). The knee-jerk reaction is, as Mayor George pointed out in his response, to kick the whole thing to the curb and hope it goes away.

Phil Florian wrote:

Bill Call wrote: One of the reasons I think the City is tipping in the wrong direction is the number of people posting who make excuses for inexcusable behavior. (snip) When you give up and accept the unacceptable you surrender your neighborhood.

I don't think people are "making excuses" but instead are trying to normalize the behavior. Normal doesn't mean acceptable, does it? It is normal to expect a toddler to throw themselves to the ground and have a tantrum from time to time. Is it acceptable? No, you deal with it in an appropriate manner. But it is still normal. But do you react to the toddler by sedating them with drugs immediately or putting them up for adoption?

I think the strength of the article pointed out that Lakewood could be a positive influence for these kids. Let's prove it.

I personally think people go off half-cocked when stories about places like this one appear on the Deck (see current and past discussions of Section 8 ). The knee-jerk reaction is, as Mayor George pointed out in his response, to kick the whole thing to the curb and hope it goes away.

Actually,

I think not accepting the behavior by calling the police, talking to the project manager and letting these kids know this is not going to be tolerated is the positive influence these kids need! Right now these kids believe there's no rules for them. I'm not going to hug them and tell them "no no that's not right." They're not two years old. I'll give them a hug and tell them "Good Job"as positive reinforcement when they follow the rules and respect everyone around them.

sharon kinsella wrote:They already do! I hear them at Marcs, walking down Detroit, at the park. Even, yes, even in movie theaters at Crocker Park.

Playing loud music - you never did it when your parents weren't around?
Mine did till I started taking the cord to the boom box (back then) to work with me.

Regularly engaging in uncivil behavior does not make it normal. I refer to the use of vulgar language and frequent playing of loud music. Such conduct in Lakewood shows total disrespect for the good and decent residents of Lakewood. It is simply inexcusable and unacceptable. Perhaps this is why such language is not allowed on deck.

sharon kinsella wrote:They already do! I hear them at Marcs, walking down Detroit, at the park. Even, yes, even in movie theaters at Crocker Park.

Playing loud music - you never did it when your parents weren't around?
Mine did till I started taking the cord to the boom box (back then) to work with me.

So Sharon are you saying because they do it we should just allow it? I fail to understand what seems to be your constant defense of poor, unneighborly behavior in this thread.

If I'm misunderstanding you I apologize, but please help me understand.

Bill Call wrote:OK...

The police "visit" an apartment building 160 times in a few months. Isn't this what the nuisance law was meant to address? Isn't time to send the landlord the bill?

I agree with Bill!

I'm not saying it is acceptable, it just is.

I don't think the kids in that apartment building are the only kids doing these things.

Kids do stupid things, all part of growing up. Part of growing up is also accepting consequences for your behaviour. I raised three kids as a single mother, and believe me, they toed the line.

I don't think it's helpful to constantly accuse people of bad beviour because of color, economic status or modes of dress.

Not making excuses, just stating facts.

Instead of everyone making accusations, what positive activities are each of the naysayers willing to participate in to change things around?

Phil,
I do hope you research and write that article because I am interested in learning more about it. I hope things get in order instead of the group getting ejected. That is a hard and lonely life to live. But they do have to obey the law while living here.

Sharon and Bill,
Women and men really do come from different planets. That may not be a bad thing though!

sharon kinsella wrote:I'm not saying it is acceptable, it just is.

I don't think the kids in that apartment building are the only kids doing these things.

Kids do stupid things, all part of growing up. Part of growing up is also accepting consequences for your behaviour. I raised three kids as a single mother, and believe me, they toed the line.

I don't think it's helpful to constantly accuse people of bad beviour because of color, economic status or modes of dress.

Not making excuses, just stating facts.

Instead of everyone making accusations, what positive activities are each of the naysayers willing to participate in to change things around?

Thanks Sharon, that makes more sense.

I agree that automatically assuming color or poor = bad, but if the police were called 160 times to the same building, there's clearly a problem that needs to be addressed somehow.

I'm confused because the article also said only one third of those calls were for teens. Who were the rest for?

Justine Cooper wrote:I'm confused because the article also said only one third of those calls were for teens. Who were the rest for?

Probably other residents, that's not the best of apartment buildings honestly.

Still, that's about 50-60 calls for those specific 20-30 people in a year. I think there's still something broken in the program if those calls were all legitimate.

I totally agree with that. I hope it gets fixed for the sake of the kids and the residents.