The Observation Deck

Im sorry. You only have a theory about Section 8 households becoming a financial liability. You have offered no proof.
Is it at all possible that by filling apartments that might be empty otherwise, Sec 8 tenants are a nuetral or even net POSITIVE? Im just asking.
And please dont tell me that "Section 8" hasnt become shorthand for a new threatening group in Lakewood, whatever the ethnicity.
And you sidestepped the question. How do you KNOW Apt A is Section 8 and Apt B is full market retail?

Dee Martinez wrote:Im sorry. You only have a theory about Section 8 households becoming a financial liability. You have offered no proof.
Is it at all possible that by filling apartments that might be empty otherwise, Sec 8 tenants are a nuetral or even net POSITIVE? Im just asking.
And please dont tell me that "Section 8" hasnt become shorthand for a new threatening group in Lakewood, whatever the ethnicity.
And you sidestepped the question. How do you KNOW Apt A is Section 8 and Apt B is full market retail?

Correct, it is only a theory. I never presented it as fact. I was hoping that the ownership program mentioned in my first post was something that the city or Fed Gov was doing here. We do not know how city services or tax revenue is impacted by individuals using vouchers for housing. Most of the articles that I have read about Section 8 housing do say that there is an impact on city services. But that is not what the intent of this thread was.. But thank you for storming into this thread and accusing all of us of being bad people that was just a joke...


PS Maybe I should change my attitude on Section 8 ... Thanks for your comments

Well, truth be told, THIS was the post I was referring to, and it was not you but Mr. Murtaugh who posted it:


There should be no increase in program funding until Congress addresses the fact that the program, while helping the disabled, causes major irreversible problems for cities like Lakewood. At very least, Congress should provide substantial funds to augment police departments which deal with the crime which comes along with Section 8.

The FACT that that the program....CAUSES MAJOR IRREVERSIBLE PROBLEMS.
??
Sorry for storming but that's one thats is hard to let slip by unchallenged.

Google: "Wilmington, Delaware Councilman Sammy Prado Section 8". Mr. Prado's brief synopsis of Section 8's impact on his community is timely.

Frank Murtaugh wrote:Google: "Wilmington, Delaware Councilman Sammy Prado Section 8". Mr. Prado's brief synopsis of Section 8's impact on his community is timely.

Great article. Thanks, Frank.

Here's the link for those who don't feel like Googling: http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs ... 08/OPINION

Rick Uldricks wrote:

Frank Murtaugh wrote:Google: "Wilmington, Delaware Councilman Sammy Prado Section 8". Mr. Prado's brief synopsis of Section 8's impact on his community is timely.

Great article. Thanks, Frank.

Here's the link for those who don't feel like Googling: http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs ... 08/OPINION

I came across this article while I was researching Section 8 housing. It is definitely a good read.

Rick Uldricks wrote:

Frank Murtaugh wrote:Google: "Wilmington, Delaware Councilman Sammy Prado Section 8". Mr. Prado's brief synopsis of Section 8's impact on his community is timely.

Great article. Thanks, Frank.

Here's the link for those who don't feel like Googling: http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs ... 08/OPINION

Thanks for the article.

Regarding Section 8. I think that there are some very deserving families that should receive it. However, BIG HOWEVER. there seem to more people that receive that cause problems than those that don't.

There are a lot of Sec. 8 residents that live near us on Clearence in the apartments. The police are there several times a week along with the fire dept., Sec 8 residents for the most part don't work, don't pay taxes (yes there landlords do) They don't take pride in their homes or their community. Most of they are just a drain on the community.

Dee Martinez wrote:Im sorry. You only have a theory about Section 8 households becoming a financial liability. You have offered no proof.
Is it at all possible that by filling apartments that might be empty otherwise, Sec 8 tenants are a nuetral or even net POSITIVE? Im just asking.
And please dont tell me that "Section 8" hasnt become shorthand for a new threatening group in Lakewood, whatever the ethnicity.
And you sidestepped the question. How do you KNOW Apt A is Section 8 and Apt B is full market retail?

Its very simple. Uncivil behavior by tenants is often the first and best clue. There is a study which so concluded. Neighbors then confirm by numerous methods including speaking with the Section 8 property owners, neighbors, and seeing rental advertisements in the paper.

Residents also learn from realtors and the police, who I believe are encouraged by CMHA policy to report criminal activity to CMHA. As was noted at the second community meeting, there may be a gap in this record/statistics keeping function. This gap needs to be filled.

There is at least one study which concluded property values drop in vulnerable neighborhoods as Section 8 expands. Those who live in close proximity to problem "8" properties and Lakewood realists, however, do not need to rely upon a study.

Beajay Michaud wrote:

Rick Uldricks wrote:

Frank Murtaugh wrote:Google: "Wilmington, Delaware Councilman Sammy Prado Section 8". Mr. Prado's brief synopsis of Section 8's impact on his community is timely.

Great article. Thanks, Frank.

Here's the link for those who don't feel like Googling: http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs ... 08/OPINION

Thanks for the article.

Regarding Section 8. I think that there are some very deserving families that should receive it. However, BIG HOWEVER. there seem to more people that receive that cause problems than those that don't.

There are a lot of Sec. 8 residents that live near us on Clearence in the apartments. The police are there several times a week along with the fire dept., Sec 8 residents for the most part don't work, don't pay taxes (yes there landlords do) They don't take pride in their homes or their community. Most of they are just a drain on the community.

Twelve years ago the apartments on Clarence north of Detroit were very affordable, quiet and safe places to live. I hope others go on deck with specific examples of Section 8 problems.

Frank Murtaugh wrote:
There is at least one study which concluded property values drop in vulnerable neighborhoods as Section 8 expands. Those who live in close proximity to problem "8" properties and Lakewood realists, however, do not need to rely upon a study.

This is the other, perhaps even more frustrating part of the Section 8 equation. While these people collect their free housing vouchers, live in my neighborhood for almost nothing or for free, mess up the neighborhood, make it unsafe and reduce our quality of life -- my wife and I work hard, pay our mortgage, try to maintain our home and watch our property value drop.

Rick Uldricks wrote:

Frank Murtaugh wrote:
There is at least one study which concluded property values drop in vulnerable neighborhoods as Section 8 expands. Those who live in close proximity to problem "8" properties and Lakewood realists, however, do not need to rely upon a study.

This is the other, perhaps even more frustrating part of the Section 8 equation. While these people collect their free housing vouchers, live in my neighborhood for almost nothing or for free, mess up the neighborhood, make it unsafe and reduce our quality of life -- my wife and I work hard, pay our mortgage, try to maintain our home and watch our property value drop.

Could we get vouchers to live in Pepper Pike?

Rick, I feel your pain. Here’s my take on it.

The Housing Choice Voucher Program, as it has been called since at least July 2004 is indeed a great concept. It helps lots of deserving families around the country. It is not a race issue in fact as of 2000 according to http://socds.huduser.org/CHAS/CHAS_java.htm there were 395,020 White households receiving assistance in Cuyahoga County compared to 145,110 African American households. When you take a step back you realize the system does benefit a lot of people.

Here is the downturn as with any mildly corrupt government body, CMHA is subject to people who abuse the system. These are the criminal element we all talk about. It is just so easy to abuse the system because of the lack of adequate funding. Along with the misuse (cough, cough, land deal, cough) of funds provided. Let’s all take a more positive approach and talk about ways to resolve the abuse in the system. Take care all.

I happen to know some people who live in those apartments are on Section 8 and are disabled. Fire trucks go out with ambulances and sometimes are accompanied by police cars.

Also, someone mentioned earlier about an apartment building on Lake Ave. that always has fire trucks going there. It is a seniors and disabled subsidized building. So I would venture to guess that a lot of the fire calls are for ambulances.

Don't make assumptions about everyone until you know the facts about all of them.

It just accrued to me that I can’t ask for ways to ‘fix’ the chronic abuse in the CHMA system without offering my own suggestion.

Seeing as how the CMHA police force is at best ineffective. I say we disband the CMHA police force. To prevent the job loss that comes with this. We force CMHA to subsidize the cost of 2 CHMA officers and rehire them as full time city officers. (without forcing them to relocate) Every city that has CHMA subsidized housing gets 2 fulltime officers per 100 (completely arbitrary number) housing units. We can even go one step further and make them part of a special ‘Drug Taskforce’, which seems to be the most prevalent problem amongst CMHA subsidized housing.

I believe the Parma Housing Authority also has county-wide jurisdiction as well. So there could be added numbers to the approximately 450 CMHA housing vouchers in Lakewood.

HUD also purchases properties for its subsidized mortgage program.

Kenneth Warren