The Observation Deck

Ryan

I cannot speak for Ken and Jeff. Actually I think we are on different sides of the table on curfew. I want parents to be responsible for their bad kids, not all of society and our police.

As for my data, it comes from years of being on the streets, talking with police, other cities and applying common sense. It comes from walking the streets of Tremont, Cleveland Height, Rocky River, Parma, Old Brooklyn, Harvard, etc until late and night and talking to people. I have to be honest, I am not a councilman, nor professional. But you are, where are the facts you want to site, where are the documents?

I am more than curious why Basketball Hoops are removed than a month later we start an initiative to get kids off of streets. It seems like one could cause the other. Why build courts, if we are not going to equip them? Why teach kids to exercise and do things, to lock them up?

You as a councilman and mayor candidate you tell me there is waste and laziness in the police department. As a resident that has three businesses in your ward, and city you are running for mayor, maybe you could explain.

I hate the idea of a police levy. I have disagreed with Ken on this for more than a year. However I do not see the answer to the problem locking down law abiding citizens in their homes. Unlike some running for office I think the streets are safe with a major exception for those coming into Lakewood to rob, steal and create chaos not my neighbors.

As you mentioned building the brand, many times it is repairing the brand when zealots get things painfully wrong. Which is the better brand builder? We are locking down our city and law abiding citizens and getting ready to study the effect of crime on our community. Or, Lakewood hires 30 police add 9 police per shift, starts residency incentives, and upgrades technology.

Just think, who ever the mayor is, "Yes we like Lakewood safe and decided to get in front of the current crime stats being reflected in Cleveland, Rocky River, Avon Lake, etc. Lakewood is a walkable community, the citizens wanted to make sure it is a safe walkable community. Lakewood Police are dedicated, so we thought it was time we give them as much support as the skate park." Talk about brand building.

I am not anxious to spend my money in the government, really I am not. But it is far cheaper and more effective to be ahead of the curve on this, then wait. I only need two things from city hall, safe and clean.


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Ryan:

What qualifies me, you ask, to make a judgment?

My cognitive power, my experience, my sources, my data, my sagacity.

“So what is really at hand here?â€Â￾

Same old, same old, in a politically charged situation that can’t move the city off the dead nickel of status quo into the safety zone critical to the preservation of community, life, property.

“Where is your data?â€Â￾

Live streams from the police scanner.

Field observation.

Reports from neighbors and friends.

Reports from police officers.

Comparisons with Cleveland Heights.

Historical recollection of turning points 1991, 2001.

Recent critical turning point incidents:

Lakewood Avenue S.W.A.T shoot-out.

Window blown-out at Rockport

Pipe-bomb found at Madison Park

Muggings, stick-ups, break-ins that have come to plague the city over the past several months.

“What says that we need more police?â€Â￾

Talk to the police on patrol, esp. those who have served over the past 15 years or so.

Ryan, I am not in anyway suggesting “the mayor to be such a great a non-political leader.â€Â￾ He does, indeed, need to be in this discussion, one so hot Stan Austin has not even posted yet.

You can’t have it both ways saying, “Blaming our crime on Cleveland might help you build the Lakewood brand, but it doesn't do much for the residents of Baxterly Avenue that feel terrorized these days.â€Â￾

Yes, we all feel the terror of chaotic networks that draw increasing degrees of hardened urban core into Lakewood. That’s the way it works, Ryan.

Fourteen punks from Denison came to Lakewood to beat up a Lakewood kid in Madison Branch Library on Thursday. That’s data, that’s a first.

It’s a matter of force, men with guns, seeing what the effect of twelve hour shifts will do to a police force trying to play catch-up. The demand for a police levy is not wanton at all, Ryan. It’s been a long time coming. Lakewood’s pillar of safety is tottering, because the psychiatric, socio-economic caseload in Lakewood drains manpower required for pro-active enforcement, making the city ripe for chaos-makers who are now homies and on the move.

Kenneth Warren

I would really be interested to know what qualifies you to make the judgement that we need more police? I have not seen you at any of the budget hearings over the past four years. The Police Chief did not make any requests for increased staffing during those hearings, nor did the Mayor. So what is really at hand here??

What qualifies me? Well, beyond taking umbrage at your suggestion that neither Ken, Jim or myself have the sense or ability to interpret that which we see around us, let's see, 50 years of observations (I exclude the 3 years I lived in Cleveland during Law School).
Nearly 2 decades sitting on the Library Board, seeing discussions turn from issues of Internet connections and DVD purchases to issues of hired security, graffiti removal, security cameras and managing disruptive elements.
Seeing the change in the police blotter go from domestic disturbances, DWIs and rowdy bar patrons to kids being mugged at gun point and gangs gathering in the newly finished (but not yet open) Harrison playground.
Viewing the "tags" on buildings, signs and structures.
Listening to the concerns of residents (see various threads on this board) who are talking of moving on....

If my lack of attendance at budget hearings disqualifies me from having and voicing an opinion, then it most certainly disqualifies 99.9% of Lakewood residents. Granted, I have no "data". But most certainly, when the data for 2007 is available and examined in 2008 or 2009, it will most undoubtedly give an answer to the question of why Lakewood is no longer safe and why long term residents have moved on. Of course, by then, it already too late, but at least we'll be able to identify the point in time that leadership would have made a difference.

Secondly, if you find the mayor to be such a great a non-political leader, where is he in this discussion? Or should I expect to get answers from surrogates as usual? If he feels that we should increase staffing levels in police, why did he wait until crime reached these critical levels to address it?

I've reread the thread. I don't see where anyone has said ANYTHING about the mayor. I honestly don't know where he stands on an issue of increasing police staffing. My concern here is not, unlike yours, framing an issue for Mayoral debates, or political finger pointing. My singular and solitary concern is to seek a solution to a problem that I have (without any qualifications to do so) identified. I tend to believe that there exists an exigency and that we need to fix the hole in the boat first, and discuss how it got there while we're still afloat instead of examining the wreckage from the lifeboats.

But, as you suggest, I really don't know what the hell is going on. Do you?

Jeff

I don't consider myself on anyone's "side," but it is interesting to see how this thread has developed. It's like a WWE wrestling match, and right now its Councilman Demro against the 6-man tag team consisting of JOB and two members of the library posse. And right now I see a couple more wrestlers running down the aisle to pile on further. That's ok--everyone's entitled to their opinions.

It all comes down to making choices on how to allocate finite resources...sounds like the definition of economics. There is no bottomless pit of resources, even in a city like Lakewood. Apparently $11.5 million or so was spent on the new library http://www.cblhdesign.com/lib-lakewood.htm while we are debating an extra couple million for police. You could interpret that a couple different ways. At least our thugs have ample reading material in a nice environment? If there are any who only want to spend money on police manpower and not computers, I wonder if they are in the back pocket of the unions. I know we have people who have stated on this board that they want to DOUBLE the NUMBER of police (you know who you are).

In many private companies, computers have made things much more efficient than they were 20 years ago, 10 years ago, 5 years ago, or maybe even a year ago if there has been a recent upgrade. There are exceptions like car dealerships. A city government is a completely different animal, and you are on another planet drinking tea with Kucinich and Maclaine if you think you are going to get one to run like a well-oiled machine. Now, I'm not necessarily recommending foot patrols (if any even exist in Lakewood) be replaced by robots at this time. However, improvements can still be made. Unlike those who watch the COPS tv show or CSI daily, I do not think I am knowledgeable about all the details of a police officer's hourly activities. However, laptop computers accessing citywide wifi OR at least internet through a cell provider may prevent less trips back and forth to the station to write reports (if this is not being done already)--thus, more time could be spent patrolling the streets, arresting criminals, and enforcing the law.

Do we have an update on Citistat or something similar, especially in terms of police department use? Are we still using pencil and paper to manually plot crimes onto a big wall map with old street names like Highland like they did on CHIPS in the 1970s? How is that part-time college student doing who was supposed to help implement Citistat? To those who are visually challenged, I did not say in this post that I expected Citistat to be fully implemented already nor did I say in what time frame it should be completed.

In my opinion, the two previous posts (Jeff's especially) don't clearly explain why MORE police are needed. Instead it has turned into a competition of who has done what and for how many decades. The posts show why a BETTER LPD is needed. A better LPD may include more officers, but why can't it include better technology or a shifting of priorities away from questionable programs like DARE, vacation checks, and things like repainting unchipped police cars just to try to look like Linndale?

Doug

We do not use real time data to PREVENT crime. Prevention is the key here. I am glad that we eventually arrest the culprits, but that doesn't really mean anything to those who have already been victimized. The idea is to send a message that Lakewood is a place where you don't fool around and to reduce the overall workload.

MTG says the Chronic Nuisance Law is too difficult to enforce because it is too bureaucratic. Unfortunately for him that does not bear out in Des Moines, Minneapolis, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, and South Euclid. So why is Lakewood so special?? Well, it's not. It's incompetence in the management at City Hall. This law was not only meant to bring order back to neighborhoods, it was meant to reduce police workload by changing the behavior of problems residents or encouraging them to leave.

Again, how do we know that we are properly managing what we already have? We don't, because we don't measure and we don't plan.

Doug,

I don't think it's necessary to tie in the Library's $11.5 mill. plan for the new building to this police levy debate.

1- because the plan to build a new building wasn't NOW. and the plan for a police levy was first brought up a few months ago and not 3 years ago.

2- I've been tested on this deck many times and continue to do so. When you post something about a serious topic like a police levy, not all opinions work. What you see as attacking, I see as questioning to get to the root of the post so that people can get more familiar with where the poster is coming from (not location but thought).

3- I agree with you that more officers would improve the LPD. I have a friend who wants to go into law enforcement and he recently found out that 5 out of 500 applying officers were hired here in Lakewood. Harsh testing and training makes it harder for a police officer to get a job in Lakewood than....somewhere else.


But why were only 5 officers hired? I don't think it's because 495 didn't meet qualifications, but it has to do with the cities budget. I don't know how much the annual wage for a police officer is here in Lakewood, but multiply that by 10 and add costs of providing health insurance and retirement plans and you'll get the least ammount of cash that tax payers will have to come up with. Adding upgrades to technology makes it that much more of an increase.

Mr. Huntington:

I don’t know exactly the aspersion, innuendo and interpretation for which you are fishing, but since your paragraph contextualizes the library as the site for a call-out, I have to ask what and who are you referring to in the following statement:

“You could interpret that a couple different ways. At least our thugs have ample reading material in a nice environment? If there are any who only want to spend money on police manpower and not computers, I wonder if they are in the back pocket of the unions. I know we have people who have stated on this board that they want to DOUBLE the NUMBER of police (you know who you are).â€Â￾

Who exactly stated “they want to DOUBLE the NUMBER of police?â€Â￾

Who do you think is “in the back pocket of the unions?â€Â￾

Kenneth Warren

Ryan Patrick Demro wrote: Unfortunately for him that does not bear out in Des Moines, Minneapolis, Cleveland Heights, Shaker Heights, and South Euclid.

Have you ever been to Des Moines? I have, and the law doesn't work. My fiancee lives in the nicest part of DSM, just down the street from the governor's mansion, and it's extremely noisy. There are drag races down Grand Avenue (the street she lives on) at 9pm at night, people honking their horns all the time, I could go on and on.

Kinda funny that Lakewood is about half of the population of the entire DSM area, and it's quieter here.

Ken, I would expect better from you, based on the many posts I have read from you on here.

especially nice touch how you deleted the smiley face, trying to change the meaning of the paragraph you lifted

Are you in favor of increasing manpower ONLY at the police department? Are you in the back pocket of the unions?

Ivor, I respect your opinion. As far as the $11.5 million, I did not say I was against the library. All the money, though, ultimately comes from the same source. Money does not grow on trees. We can spend money on multiple things, but not on everything.

David, if she is in one of the nicest parts of Des Moines and it is that noisy, is it even much noisier in the parts that are not as nice? How do you define "nice?" Some people feel that living in the flats or warehouse district in a penthouse is the nicest. However, that also can be a very noisy area. I'm not trying to take Councilman Demro's side on the noise ordinance necessarily--just trying to be fair.

Doug

Ken, Jeff, Ryan - this is my take on your discussion: you all agree that crime is an issue in Lakewood. The disagreement lies with the solution.

Ken and Jeff - more police, bigger budget.

Ryan - a departmental assessment to determine the present use of police dollars, current state of police resources.

I believe firmly that our police need our help. They lack modern resources and management techniques. However without carefully looking at the way they do business, we don't know anything for sure.

No measurement; no managment. I think the citizens of Lakewood will be looking for more than just "we need more police" as a reason to support a police levy. I think they'll expect the same level of work to be done and the same information to be provided to them as has been provided by other public entities. This community has time and time again supported higher taxes for projects that can justify themselves. They will not accept less and they don't deserve a scare campaign. Real numbers and real plans will equal real success.

Suzanne

to those who disagree with the idea of more police on the streets I respectfully submit that cops dont necessarily have to make arrests to deter crime.

Its the POLICE PRESENCE that makes a difference.
I have spent time in many major cities and have only felt uncomfortable when the place felt "abandoned" No people no activity no cops.

Where would you really rather be on a Saturday night. Crocker Park or Madison and Winchester?

Data is just more bs. Debates are just political bs and chest beating. More laws are just more bs not enforced. I'd follow Ken, Jeff, and Jim into battle on this before any of Lakewood's current 'leaders'. They just don't seem to get it.

We need someone with hard experience and a backbone to lead LKWD right now. Not more bs.

Doug:

I apologize if the emoticon qualified the meaning of the words in your post into something I still do not quite fully understand.

Were you simply joking? I could not tell.

I enjoy your wry sense of things but felt in this instance that I needed to press for a clarification, not too hard I hope.

I do believe the critical need in the city right now is for increased police manpower, plainly and simply. I also believe there is a broad enough agreement among citizens in the city that increased police manpower is needed. I believe this matter is timely and we need to act accordingly.

I am not exactly sure what you mean when you ask: “Are you in the back pocket of the unions?â€Â￾

Though I speak with police officers, who are no doubt, members of a police union, I have never had any communication with the police unions.

However the police officers are organized with respect to their interests, I am working solely in a civic capacity to satisfy the need for increased police manpower and safety in the city of Lakewood.

If you see the effects of my effort to increase police manpower in Lakewood as somehow “in the back pocket of the unions,â€Â￾ I would hope you might clarify further and I will be happy to explain myself and my interests in this matter to you.

Thanks.

Kenneth Warren

Suzanne:

From your summary spin, I take it you missed my post in the Rating the Suburbs thread that said:

“I believe that given the street crimes and defiant thug behavior we are all seeing on the rise in our neighborhoods (not to mention the far more disturbing action in Cleveland neighborhoods, say, around Madison in the 80s and 90s) the Mayor and Council and the Police Chief and rank and file and the Schools with its Lakewood Charter Academy needs to conduct a Crime and Safety forum.

Elements would include: Current Assessment of Neighborhood Concerns, Comparative Benchmarks, Current Practices, Criminal Mapping, Gang Prevention, Gathering Intelligence from the Neighborhood Field State-of-the-Art Concepts and Deployments, Community Enlistment, Thug Abatement.

Our city needs the Mayor and Council and the Police Chief and rank and file street cops leading the way in a plan that identifies the financial resources and safety strategies that will respond the times.

Until we see that level of leadership, intent on disclosing safety and crime mapping methods, enlisting citizens for field intelligence, and seeing police and citizens going door-to-door to ensure effective neighborhood norms, there will be little progress on the safety front."

Source: http://lakewoodobserver.com/forum/viewt ... c&start=15

Councilman Demro surely has access to all the police reports and annual police reports. Let's hear his analysis of the data. Let's hear an analysis of each mayoral candidate and their conclusions.

Kenneth Warren

DougHuntingdon wrote: David, if she is in one of the nicest parts of Des Moines and it is that noisy, is it even much noisier in the parts that are not as nice? How do you define "nice?" Some people feel that living in the flats or warehouse district in a penthouse is the nicest. However, that also can be a very noisy area. I'm not trying to take Councilman Demro's side on the noise ordinance necessarily--just trying to be fair.

Well, she's within spitting distance of the Governor's mansion...right down the street on Grand.